Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

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Chi_Rup
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Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Chi_Rup » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:53 pm

It’s a hotly contested field, to be sure.

But contemporary folks been saying it was the collapse of the Soviet Union, which inspired Donald Tusk to tweet today:
The collapse of the Soviet Union was NOT the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century. Today in Georgia I want to say loud and clear: the USSR collapse was a blessing to Georgians, Poles, Ukrainians and the whole of Central and Eastern Europe. And also to Russians.
How far we have come from the 90s, the end of the Cold War, the birth of globalism, hope and opportunities. Did we fuck it up or should we be proud? Of course we should, it’s only the abject cowardice and opportunism of a weak political class that’s stopping us beginning a free and optimistic Star Trek future ya fannies.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:18 pm

The finalists have to be the October Revolution and Hitler becoming chancellor.

I don't think we can call the outbreak of the First World War political.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Flora » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:22 pm

Partition.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Flora » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:22 pm

In fact, shit withdrawal from colonies in general.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by eric84 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:51 pm

Blundering into World War I because some Archduke no one heard of is at the top of my list.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by DCComic » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:56 pm

Treaty of Versailles.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:58 pm

Franz Ferdinand was the Crown Prince of the Austro-Hungarian empire. People had heard of him.

I think there were too many bad decisions by too many people to call the outbreak of WWI one political catastrophe, even if you consider it political.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:59 pm

I was thinking of "political" as implying "within one country" (Which would include the former British India.) But there is room for argument about that.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Mike Hunt » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:07 pm

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Andrea1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:29 pm

I can't pick one, there were so many awful ones. It was one catastrophe-filled Century, but aren't they all? We are so lucky in our time/place, to be so free, well-off, well-traveled, albeit in many unpleasant/catastrophe-like for the locals - rivers of shit-like destinations that really were/are fun and fascinating for us.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by eric84 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:35 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:58 pm
Franz Ferdinand was the Crown Prince of the Austro-Hungarian empire. People had heard of him.

I think there were too many bad decisions by too many people to call the outbreak of WWI one political catastrophe, even if you consider it political.
I don't think the average European outside Austria-Hungary would've known who he was. In any case, I think every event mentioned here requires a lot of people making a lot of bad decisions to get to the top of a political catastrophe list. That's kinda how you define a catastrophe.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:44 pm

Hindenburg did not have to name Hitler Chancellor.

Lenin did not have to cancel the planned Constituent Assembly.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by eric84 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:14 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:44 pm
Hindenburg did not have to name Hitler Chancellor.

Lenin did not have to cancel the planned Constituent Assembly.
Yes, all sort of different decisions could have been made to avert World War One but a series of events leading up to it made it more possible. Just like Hitler's rise and the Soviet Union.

Is there a point you're making?
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Zamuel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Neville Chamberlain
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by 2wilzgood » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:40 pm

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:06 pm

Wrong century, unless you mean his time as Secretary of Defense in the Ford administration, or as a member of Congress.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Argonheart_Po » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:50 pm

How could anyone think, anyone, that the collapse of the Soviet Union was within a million miles of being the greatest catastrophe?

It unbelievable.

Which people said it?
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by بھائی اوتار لینا » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:36 am

Flora wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:22 pm
Partition.
India or Palestine?

I guess re-housing a few million unwanted european jews in palestine was quite catastrophic in hindsight, especially when stalin had an open invitation for them to form a new colony in siberia that they could have taken up instead.

I mean talk about foreigners taking over the place.
Forming a new european colony in the middle east just as colonialism was being disbanded around the world, crazy.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by matt_melb » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:01 am

Argonheart_Po wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:50 pm
How could anyone think, anyone, that the collapse of the Soviet Union was within a million miles of being the greatest catastrophe?

It unbelievable.

Which people said it?
Putin said it, but I think you knew that. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 21064.html

Ukraine is a failed state, and some of the stans are run by murderous tyrants, so it hasn't all been good for everyone.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by eric84 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:03 am

Oh, Putin said it....Argie will immediately agree with this sage observation
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Godjira » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:06 am

Argonheart_Po wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:50 pm
How could anyone not think that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a million miles worse than the greatest catastrophe?

It unbelievable.

Putin is usually right!
Fixed preemptively
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:09 am

بھائی اوتار لینا wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:36 am
Flora wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:22 pm
Partition.
India or Palestine?
As you're an Orangeman, I'm not shocked you havent said the obvious.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by بھائی اوتار لینا » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:17 am

Oh yeah..

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by 2wilzgood » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:33 am

Gorbachev, possibly the greatest statesman of the century, but no.

Not in your eyes.

And you don't yet wonder why.
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Vietnam.

Post by WhosieWho » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:41 am

Deaths, avoidable?

Nothing about Hitler, Stalin or Mao was "avoidable" but those were greater catastrophes YES.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Lost Soul » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:03 am

The loss of the White Army, and it's allies, to the Red Army in 1919.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by veronica_inheels » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:10 am

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:18 pm
The finalists have to be the October Revolution and Hitler becoming chancellor.
yep
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:13 am

The October Revolution wasn't a political catastrophe.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:24 am

JFK getting assassinated was a catastrophe.

Then Vietnam happened and the world saw the 'brave new world' was infact Imperialism (Colonialialism on steroids) and The Great Satan revealed itself.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by eric84 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:00 am

Vietnam was well under way during jfk’s presidency.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:06 am

I'm aware of the history of American involvement in post WW2 SEA, Eric.

Now, I'm going to put you back in the water. Too tiddly and inedible.

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Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Godjira » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:17 am

What about the Japanese war in China? It led to the rise of communism too.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Chi_Rup » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:52 am

A very wise historian said to me one time “nothing in history leads to anything, after you’ve left high school stop saying that.”

Which led to me stopping saying that.

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Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Godjira » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:33 am

Well, each moment/event leads to the next. And the Communists started out by fighting the Japanese.
Last edited by Godjira on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by strife » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:38 am

Women's Suffrage. Feminism is cancer.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:03 am

Stephen, we don't have a definition of political catastrophe. I would like to know yours, and why the JFK assassination is one but the October Revolution isn't.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by strife » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:12 am

JFK rivals Raygun as most overrated US president of the 20th century. History is kind to him because he died young and handsome.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:59 am

Go fuck yourself, Vinny.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:01 am

strife wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:12 am
JFK rivals Raygun as most overrated US president of the 20th century. History is kind to him because he died young and handsome.
And specifically because he was murdered.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by strife » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:03 am

VinnyD wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:01 am
strife wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:12 am
JFK rivals Raygun as most overrated US president of the 20th century. History is kind to him because he died young and handsome.
And specifically because he was murdered.
William McKinley: Gone, but not Forgotten.

Anyway, JFK was not murdered. He was killed in self-defense, on behalf of the Vietnamese People.
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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:06 am

It's true. There are many more statues of McKinley around than there would be if he had died of natural causes. Outside Philadelphia City Hall, for example.

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Re: Greatest Political Catastrophe of the 20th Century

Post by strife » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:28 am

You'd be angry too, if you'd been named Czolgosz.
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