Manch megathread - protest

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by VinnyD » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:25 pm

Not as many posts, not as drunk.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by shilgia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:26 pm

SD spreads the joy in other people's threads. Manch posts only in his own threads. It's a big difference when it comes to whether to round them all up and put them in one big thread.

(This all sounds a bit like "But her emails!")

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:30 pm

shilgia wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:26 pm
SD spreads the joy in other people's threads. Manch posts only in his own threads. It's a big difference when it comes to whether to round them all up and put them in one big thread.
Such a Dutch mentality

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:31 pm

I don't see a lot of joy in his posts, really. These seem fairly flimsy reasons to create a single megathread of his posts.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by strife » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:47 pm

Is 'reich unhappy and complaining about the moderation here? Wouldn't that be a surprise.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:49 pm

You used to complain almost daily about the moderation around here. It wasn't a surprise.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:49 pm

Eric, why do so many posters have you blocked?

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by strife » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:52 pm

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:49 pm
Eric, why do so many posters have you blocked?
Because he sucks and is bald with an absolutely ruinous vertex and has No Own Life, jaja.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by sodelicious » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:00 pm

leela wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:00 pm
ben_hanscombe wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:38 am
See, what this looks like to me is the opposite of partiality on the part of the mods. It looks like a labour-intensive solution they've put in place designed to avoid banning Manch. They've gone out of their way to not shitcan him and all they get is whinging and OPs about dick fingers from him, and strongly worded protests from you.
That.

Matt, I do understand (but only to a degree) where your feelings might come from. We all see the posts of people we know in real life, and are fond of, differently from how other posters do. But this is by its nature, a text on screen forum, and it's run as such. The mods make decisions based on what they can see, and what everyone can read. I think they've been pretty fair to him.

Incidentally, there are other people who've met and liked Manch, who disagree with you.
Leela, is that how you feel when Grecian post something like this, taken from WOS:

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by leela » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:06 pm

First, I don't post on WOS (or hardly ever) and second, when I did post on the same threads as Grecian, I mostly called him out when he was obnoxious. He was absolutely foul to that to that really lovely poster on the TT (whose name I've shamefully forgotten) and I was furious with him.
Have I overlooked some things because he was a pleasant guy in person? Probably. I know that at least once I thought that my saying that he was nice in real life, was an an okay thing to say to someone offended by him, when it really wasn't.

But I never, ever had any beef with him being banned, and on occasions I reported his posts on the tree.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:19 pm

It's amazing we've gone this far before finding such a unique poster as Manch that we have to treat him differently but without banning him.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by Usher73 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:36 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:44 pm
Ben, I think any time anyone has wondered if I was joking, I was.
I think it was Steve Martin I saw on TV say "If I say anything you don't understand, assume it's comedy."

Or maybe it was one of the Smothers Brothers.

Or maybe it was Steve Martin on the Smothers Brothers show.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by polardude1 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:49 pm

Ereich continues his role as an arm chair mod
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by matt_melb » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 am

Ben - I hadn't realised that my comment about schoolyard bullying was being read as an accusation of bad faith. I don't want to accuse anyone of bad faith. So I'll clarify: I think people are behaving as schoolyard bullies, but have no view as to whether that arises from malice (or bad faith) or lack of understanding. They might well be like 5 year olds who need it to explained to them that it's cruel for everyone to gang up and refuse to talk to the unpopular kid of the week.

Wishing someone ill health (or a shit-filled bed), and encouraging people to kill themselves, are both obnoxious. No-one should be doing either. I can't see them as comparable. Urging people to suicide can lead to them doing it; whereas a wish of a shit-filled bed is most unlikely to damage your mental state to a point where you actively seek it out. I know that some millennials have the view that saying 'killself' on social media is no more than light banter; I can't agree.

Manch's post count is currently less than Felix's; and since Felix changes his handle much more frequently, I'm firmly of the view that over time his posts would outweigh Manch's enormously. I'm not going to count them up; and I suspect nor is anyone else; so we may retain our separate views on this.

I don't really want Felix banned. It seems to be upsetting him that I should say that I do, more than I thought it would, so perhaps I'll stop. I do find him boring and tedious; and I find his regular interjections of the slogan of a murderous tyrant offensive; and I would enjoy the Stew more if he weren't here. But others seem to find him congenial company (well, Moe does, anyway); and good luck to them.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by ben_hanscombe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:03 am

Interestingly, Iolar is the only poster in 60+ responses who has voiced an objection that isn't "but why aren't the mods also horrid to this other poster I dislike?"
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by matt_melb » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:14 am

Fair point, Ben.

Maybe I should have spent more time saying why I don't think Manch should treated the way he has been. (He's a fundamentally decent guy going through some tough times; we could do more to support him; ganging up to let someone know they're not part of the inner circle and will be treated differently is obnoxious and we shouldn't be doing it; for the people who are upset by his posts, the answer is simple, don't read them.... etc. Though I think those points have all been made numerous times.)

That does boil down, though, to saying 'I think the Stew should be run the way I like it'. Which is a harder argument to run (because other people have different likes, and there's no obvious reason why mine should prevail ), than to say 'if we're going to have rules, then they should be applied consistently', which the majority of people are going to recognise as fundamentally fair.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by ben_hanscombe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:20 am

matt_melb wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 am
Ben - I hadn't realised that my comment about schoolyard bullying was being read as an accusation of bad faith. I don't want to accuse anyone of bad faith. So I'll clarify: I think people are behaving as schoolyard bullies, but have no view as to whether that arises from malice (or bad faith) or lack of understanding. They might well be like 5 year olds who need it to explained to them that it's cruel for everyone to gang up and refuse to talk to the unpopular kid of the week.
This is by no means the first time you've voiced this opinion, Matt, including a fairly stormy thread that got a lot of responses and sat near the top of Streeterville for 24 hours or more. I doubt that there's anyone who's got much of an opinion on the Manch saga who didn't already know your thoughts on the matter. It seems that you think the only people who want Manch gone are either stupid or malicious.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that there might be legitimate reasons for not wanting Manch to behave the way he currently does on the Stew? Opinions held by people who are neither stupid not ignorant? When talking to Manch generally gets a response along the lines of "Cunts. The lot of you!", why is it incumbent on anyone here to talk to Manch? Why is the alternative necessarily a childish act of bullying? When did 'scroll on by' become a bad thing rather than the standard internet advice?

Why do you think Manch is unpopular? Is it because he has uncool clothes or has interests that the popular kids deem sad? Or is it a direct result of his behaviour?
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by strife » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:25 am

Matt is bullying me. I am Unwell, and not in a position to be bullied.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by shilgia » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:28 am

In addition, he's not even being shunned or booted or not talked to. The mods are merely trying to contain his discussions so they aren't the only thing you see on the board. It doesn't seem to stop him from posting, nor does it appear to stop anyone from talking to him.

I understand Iolar's objections better - if you have been away for a while right around the time the threads are being consolidated, the resulting discussion is indeed hard to read. I don't think that in itself is an argument not to do it, though.

(For the record, I have no strong opinion on the consolidation. I don't really care whether Manch is in one thread or in many. But I don't think consolidating his threads is an outrage or abuse of mod discretion or the singling out of an undeserving victim.)

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by ben_hanscombe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:31 am

matt_melb wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:14 am
Fair point, Ben.

Maybe I should have spent more time saying why I don't think Manch should treated the way he has been. (He's a fundamentally decent guy going through some tough times; we could do more to support him; ganging up to let someone know they're not part of the inner circle and will be treated differently is obnoxious and we shouldn't be doing it; for the people who are upset by his posts, the answer is simple, don't read them.... etc. Though I think those points have all been made numerous times.)

That does boil down, though, to saying 'I think the Stew should be run the way I like it'. Which is a harder argument to run (because other people have different likes, and there's no obvious reason why mine should prevail ), than to say 'if we're going to have rules, then they should be applied consistently', which the majority of people are going to recognise as fundamentally fair.
To the last point: I genuinely think that the Stew has never (in my relatively short time here) had to deal with anything equivalent to Manch's presence over the past few months. He's not technically posting outside the rules, but so many people find him so obnoxious that it's been decided that something should be done. To me, a demand for consistency in a unique situation is an impossible standard to which to hold the mods.

As for the idea that we could do more to support him: what more could we do? I've been keeping out of it, but I've seen people respond to him with pretty much everything approach under the sun.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by matt_melb » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:37 am

strife wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:25 am
Matt is bullying me. I am Unwell, and not in a position to be bullied.
Felix - I agree you are unwell. I should probably take your evident mental health issues more seriously than I have been, and I apologise for that.

Ben - I respect your views on this, probably more than you think I do, though I don't agree. I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is 'malicious' or 'stupid'; though it follows from the fact that I don't agree with them that I think they are incorrect. I don't agree that the Stew has never had to deal with anything like this before; but what's the point in me continuing to single out other posters who I find more irritating.

Do you agree with me that writing 'killself' to another poster, or urging another poster in some other way to commit suicide, is always unacceptable.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by ben_hanscombe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:38 am

matt_melb wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 am
Wishing someone ill health (or a shit-filled bed), and encouraging people to kill themselves, are both obnoxious. No-one should be doing either. I can't see them as comparable. Urging people to suicide can lead to them doing it; whereas a wish of a shit-filled bed is most unlikely to damage your mental state to a point where you actively seek it out. I know that some millennials have the view that saying 'killself' on social media is no more than light banter; I can't agree.
Again, obnoxiousness is in the eye of the beholder. Speaking as someone who, over the last few years, has spent more time than is generally considered healthy thinking about killing myself, who is prone to feelings of loneliness and guilt and fear of the future, I'm going to respectfully disagree.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by ben_hanscombe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:44 am

matt_melb wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:37 am
strife wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:25 am
Matt is bullying me. I am Unwell, and not in a position to be bullied.
Felix - I agree you are unwell. I should probably take your evident mental health issues more seriously than I have been, and I apologise for that.

Ben - I respect your views on this, probably more than you think I do, though I don't agree. I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is 'malicious' or 'stupid'; though it follows from the fact that I don't agree with them that I think they are incorrect. I don't agree that the Stew has never had to deal with anything like this before; but what's the point in me continuing to single out other posters who I find more irritating.
Okay; you don't think that everyone who disagrees with you is a malicious or stupid. Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is a schoolyard bully? It's hard to see otherwise when you list 'ignoring the unpopular kid' among the definitions of schoolyard bully behaviour.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by ben_hanscombe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:52 am

matt_melb wrote: Do you agree with me that writing 'killself' to another poster, or urging another poster in some other way to commit suicide, is always unacceptable.
That's a fair question. I don't fully agree with you, but that's more down to an inclination never to say never in these matters; I've seen the "jokes about [whatever] are never okay!" formulation used too often to shut down debate or to precipitate a pile-on. I'll say that I can't think of an instance of urging someone to commit suicide that I thought was okay, which is one of those sentences that feels really weird to sit and type.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by matt_melb » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:55 am

'Behaving like a schoolyard bully and/or like the gang currying favour with, or otherwise acquiescing to the wishes of, the schoolyard bully'. Specifically, I am labelling people's behaviour rather than their character.

Don't see where this is going, Ben. We've each set out our position; we're clearly going to remain apart on some points; you're asking me to define my terms in more and more detail, which I don't particularly want to keep doing and which isn't advancing the discussion. Are you content to leave it here?

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by strife » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:57 am

matt_melb wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:37 am

Felix - I agree you are unwell. I should probably take your evident mental health issues more seriously than I have been, and I apologise for that.

Right, and the only compassionate course of action to take with an Unwell person is to indulge his self-destructiveness, right?

So indulge me, and have at those who Bully me.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by matt_melb » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:03 am

strife wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:57 am
Right, and the only compassionate course of action to take with an Unwell person is to indulge his self-destructiveness, right?

So indulge me, and have at those who Bully me.
The only person I've known in real life who behaved like you turned out to have narcissistic personality disorder; once I discovered that, I reaslised I was way out of my area of expertise in knowing how to handle that person, and the most compassionate course I could take turned out to be to disengage.

I may try that with you for a while. Or I may change my mind and come back to torment you again. Anyway, I will choose.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by strife » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:15 am

matt_melb wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:03 am
strife wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:57 am
Right, and the only compassionate course of action to take with an Unwell person is to indulge his self-destructiveness, right?

So indulge me, and have at those who Bully me.
The only person I've known in real life who behaved like you turned out to have narcissistic personality disorder; once I discovered that, I reaslised I was way out of my area of expertise in knowing how to handle that person, and the most compassionate course I could take turned out to be to disengage.

I may try that with you for a while. Or I may change my mind and come back to torment you again. Anyway, I will choose.
I guess we'd have to be 'friends' for you to enable me in earnest.

Carry on, Library Paste.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by ben_hanscombe » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:17 am

matt_melb wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:55 am
'Behaving like a schoolyard bully and/or like the gang currying favour with, or otherwise acquiescing to the wishes of, the schoolyard bully'. Specifically, I am labelling people's behaviour rather than their character.

Don't see where this is going, Ben. We've each set out our position; we're clearly going to remain apart on some points; you're asking me to define my terms in more and more detail, which I don't particularly want to keep doing and which isn't advancing the discussion. Are you content to leave it here?
I don't think I've asked for an excessive amount of detail, and I disagree that answers to my questions wouldn't have advanced the discussion. Predictably. Content to leave it here? I'll continue if you continue or if your responses to other people raise questions, but I'm not going to hump your leg demanding answers, not least because I'm going out at some point and don't have a local SIM. So... yes?
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by rider5 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:22 am

I hope the mods treat everyone differently when they actually do have to take action on a poster. It's pretty insular here. Everyone is a known quantity who has been around for a spell. Consistency would be a tyranny in this place.

It's good to see strife still has what it takes to attract 'fans'.

However it's kind of an underwhelming superpower. I mean how can you harness it for Good or even profit? You can't except to get a few laughs out of it. Madhatter is probably boiling over with jealousy at this point. There's a new kid on the block.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by The Mallard Missie » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:06 am

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:10 pm
eric84 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:55 pm
VinnyD wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:54 pm
Eric, he is treated exactly the same as every other poster who puts up 50 drunken posts a day.
If he was, then stephen would have a single megathread.
How many threads have I made this month, cunt?

Why do you have so many people who've blocked you, Eric?
Because she's a bald Nazi?

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by leela » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:49 am

I find it odd, Matt, that you think that comparing the post counts of someone who's been here for a few months, and someone who's been here for many years, is valid.

Manch is spamming all hell out of the board at the moment. You can't possibly be arguing that he's no worse than Felix in that at this point, surely?

Right now the mods are managing the board to keep it readable. Manch is carrying on regardless. The people who want to interact with him are carrying on regardless. It's not a big deal.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by mad hatter » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:53 am

whatever on most of this but it is clearly a big deal if you look at all the posting traffic its generated
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by VinnyD » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:47 am

Shilgia counted an average of 50 Manch posts a day in recent weeks, pretty much all in his own threads.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by DCComic » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:10 am

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:47 am
Shilgia counted an average of 50 Manch posts a day in recent weeks, pretty much all in his own threads.
You average 30 posts a day.
Presumably the limit should be set between 30 and 50.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by VinnyD » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:11 am

But every one of mine is a gem.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:31 am

He seems to be getting a lot less abuse in his new home.

I assume this is a good thing.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:50 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:11 am
But every one of mine is a gem.
We should all have them in megathread where we can all find your gems. Otherwise, I fear they'll get lost.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by VinnyD » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:08 pm

Thing is, my thirty gems a day are probably in 12-15 threads on average, of which maybe 0.2 will have an OP by me. So a good percentage of the threads on the board would wind up in the Vinny megathread. Since Manch doesn't post in other people's threads, that problem doesn't arise.

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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:26 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:08 pm
Thing is, my thirty gems a day are probably in 12-15 threads on average, of which maybe 0.2 will have an OP by me. So a good percentage of the threads on the board would wind up in the Vinny megathread. Since Manch doesn't post in other people's threads, that problem doesn't arise.
That's exactly my point. Your gems are too diffused to be properly enjoyed.
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by leela » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:28 pm

shilgia's count of 50 must have been on a slow day. Search results are 56 so far today, and there's another six hours of the UK day left. Given that that's six hours of Florida afternoon and evening, I suspect there's plenty more to come.
Pass the wine...

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shilgia
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by shilgia » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:37 pm

Here's the post:
ManchVegas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:57 pm
I don't get why I'm being treated to this.

You can clearly see how many posts we each make. Mine are no where near at the level of the rest of you.
You've made 3,300 posts since August 1. That's about 50 posts per day. Name one other person who has gotten even close to that, ever.

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eric84
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:41 pm

Stephen has averaged 44 posts a day for 4 years!
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

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strife
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by strife » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:05 pm

Daedalus engages other people.
I am Stalking you.

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VinnyD
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by VinnyD » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:31 pm

Eric is missing the point. Deliberately, I imagine.

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eric84
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:58 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:31 pm
Eric is missing the point. Deliberately, I imagine.
No. I see a poster that mods agree can post here. At that point, it's not your job or their job to judge the way a poster engages on this board or how much.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

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Felix
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by Felix » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:03 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:31 pm
Eric is missing the point. Deliberately, I imagine.
I'm not sure. He has the unfortunate combination of pigshit stupidity and cowheaded stubbornness.
Cherman humor: ha! because your father hates you, you have no one to fuck, you can't afford health care, you have nothing but this board, you pretend to have cancer, you are a racist pig, you are stupid, you are a bloody fuckface...

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eric84
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:07 pm

I guess Felix is exhausting all his handles today.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

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Stephen_Dedalus
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:21 pm

Eric, why do so many people have you blocked?

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eric84
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Re: Manch megathread - protest

Post by eric84 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:26 pm

I'm trying to reach your lofty perch. Wish me luck.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

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