Hillary in 2016?

Sponsored by Americans for a Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Moderator: Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
jono_in_adelaide
stewpid colonial
Posts: 11263
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:10 am

Hillary in 2016?

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:46 am

Who will the Democrats put up next time? Surely it has to be HRC
Si vis pacem, para bellum

User avatar
guruwil
vegemite flavored maple syrup
Posts: 25016
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:44 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by guruwil » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:49 am

I'm sure she will run, who can say if she will get the nomination, depends who is running against her.
An it harm none, do what ye will

We are all Atheists about most gods, some of us just go one god further.
judik wrote:Guruwil was right!!!
jono_in_adelaide wrote:I think Guru is right on this one
“shunter” wrote: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Guru is bang on the money here.

User avatar
Godjira
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 64825
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:52 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Godjira » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:51 am

Hmm, maybe she'll be too old by then.
That's the kind of bold flavor they enjoy in Albuquerque!

User avatar
i_have_shiny_shoes
playing outside
Posts: 6162
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:36 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:24 am

Age could be a factor, but I've no doubt she'll run. She's stepping down as SoS in Obama's next term, which means four years for two incredibly popular politicians (Hillary and Bill) to build a campaign with Obama as a surrogate.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

User avatar
phlebas
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 10591
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:27 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by phlebas » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:11 am

Jeb Bush in 2016?
Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints

User avatar
janieblack
Nutty Upside Down Cake
Posts: 10242
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:37 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by janieblack » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:14 am

OP should be banned for starting the 2016 campaign discussion. Jeez, can't we recover from 2012 for a bit?
Having sex in an elevator is wrong on so many levels

tph24601
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by tph24601 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:23 pm

Judging from the reception Bill got in the democrats convention, there is no way Hillary wouldn't be tempted.

I can just see Fox News dusting off their reports on Bengazi and trying them out again.....

coffeeguy
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 9164
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:26 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by coffeeguy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:25 pm

Absolutely she is going to run. And she will be a strong competitor.

User avatar
i_have_shiny_shoes
playing outside
Posts: 6162
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:36 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:08 pm

And, let's face it, it would be highly unlikely that Bill Clinton would have stumped so hard for Obama without the likelihood of a Hillary run following four years later. The Clinton machine did all it could to ensure his victory, and that will require payback in 2016. Their political fates, in simple terms, are inextricably linked.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

PTravel
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:13 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by PTravel » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:06 pm

Hillary vs Jeb in 2016.

Who will get the final stamp on this era of American history?

Reagan Bush repubs or Clinton Obama democrats.

User avatar
Dagny
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Dagny » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:13 pm

I love how Biden isn't even considered. It won't be a Bush running. They are still trying to get out of the G W Bush shadow so I think it would be silly for the Republicans to just give up with Jeb. Try Marco Rubio.

Rubio vs. Clinton

That would be more fun.
Free Leonard!

User avatar
rider5
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 17943
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:45 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by rider5 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:24 pm

janieblack wrote:OP should be banned for starting the 2016 campaign discussion. Jeez, can't we recover from 2012 for a bit?


No kidding.

But whoever it is for the D's, they'll be running against Mitt. He gets closer to winning the Presidency every time he runs. I think he just might be able to pull it off in '16. The Republicans would be foolish not to let this iron clad trend run it's course.

User avatar
Dagny
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Dagny » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:55 pm

How many times has that happened in history that the top of the ticket runs again?
Free Leonard!

User avatar
i_have_shiny_shoes
playing outside
Posts: 6162
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:36 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:12 pm

I know he changes his mind frequently - or rather, he's capable of holding several positions concurrently - but Romney has already said he's never running again. Interestingly, we could also see Clinton v Cuomo repeated.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

User avatar
Dagny
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Dagny » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:27 pm

IHSS the word that you are searching for is "shapeshifts" but I highly doubt he'll run again. Cuomo would be interesting. Cuomo/Rubio
Free Leonard!

User avatar
i_have_shiny_shoes
playing outside
Posts: 6162
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:36 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:30 pm

Dagny wrote:IHSS the word that you are searching for is "shapeshifts" but I highly doubt he'll run again. Cuomo would be interesting. Cuomo/Rubio


No, it was quantum. Humour me.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

User avatar
Electrolyte
Sole Guardian of Truth and Sanity
Posts: 8826
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:09 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Electrolyte » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:25 am

I would love it.

But is America anti-royalty?

User avatar
Dagny
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Dagny » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:05 am

Has Hillary said that she is retiring from politics. Just read that. She is 65 and does seem tired lately.
Free Leonard!

User avatar
judik
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 20787
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:21 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by judik » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:14 am

This election took its toll on Ann Romney and I think that's a deal breaker
For all his flipflopping I believe his love of Anne is real

But really, we need to give it a rest
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

Winston Churchill

User avatar
Dagny
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Dagny » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:32 am

Yes Judik but about Hillary, is she retiring from politics?
Free Leonard!

User avatar
judik
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 20787
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:21 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by judik » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:38 am

She's a Clinton,doubt she will be want to be out of the public eye
I think she would make a fabulous replacement for Ruth
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

Winston Churchill

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 53736
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Lost Soul » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:42 am

Dagny wrote:How many times has that happened in history that the top of the ticket runs again?

It's happened three in a row once.

William Jennings Bryan ran, and lost, three in a row in the 1890s.
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 53736
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Lost Soul » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:44 am

Oh, and I think Hillary is through, politically.

It's why she was willing to be the fall guy for Benghazi.
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

User avatar
judik
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 20787
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:21 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by judik » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:56 am

The SC is a nice safe spot for her to use her prodigious intellect
Plus the entertainment value of right wing heads exploding will be worth it
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

Winston Churchill

User avatar
2wilzgood
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 14446
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by 2wilzgood » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:19 am

judik wrote:This election took its toll on Ann Romney and I think that's a deal breaker
For all his flipflopping I believe his love of Ann is real

But really, we need to give it a rest


Why, the Mormon is now out of bounds?

While he was away, Ann Davies had converted to the Mormon faith and had begun attending Brigham Young University (BYU). Mitt was nervous that she had been wooed by others while he was away, and she had indeed started dating popular campus figure Kim S. Cameron and had sent Romney in France a "Dear John letter", greatly upsetting him; he wrote to her in an attempt to win her back. At their first meeting following Romney's return, they reconnected and decided to get married immediately, but subsequently agreed to wait three months to appease their parents. At Ann's request, Romney began attending Brigham Young, in February 1969


This was from his wikipedia page in August. I write was because the page has since been edited. I guess Mitt being nervous about Ann, then her greatly upsetting him, didn't sound presidential.

His love of Ann may be real. That'd be one thing that's real.

Your idea that HRC be a Supreme is brilliant. I hope to see it, and wonder if Ginsberg would approve.
I used to feel empathy for the poor. Now I just want them all to die. - ScottBaio
You will die like a dog for no good reason. - Hemingway
My efforts here are wasted - wilz

User avatar
judik
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 20787
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:21 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by judik » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:24 am

Why, the Mormon is now out of bounds?

Nope.I meant lets give all the prognosticating about 2016 a rest
I am sick of it
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

Winston Churchill

PTravel
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:13 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by PTravel » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:00 am

Adalai Stevenson lost twice in a row for the dems in the 50s.

Jeb is a moderate, popular in Florida, married a Latino, is liked by Florida Cubans and believes in real immigration reform.

He is more like his dad than his brother. He is the Bush everyone thought they were getting in 2000.

Add in Christie, Pawlenty, Huntsman, Portman on the ticket and he could could win it. Dubya or not.

Anyone who thinks the Clintons are not going to run are nuts. She will take a year off and start campaigning/speaking in swings states.

User avatar
i_have_shiny_shoes
playing outside
Posts: 6162
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:36 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:18 am

Hillary (and Bill) have already discounted themselves from being appointed to the SC. They'll nearly be as old as the people they're replacing.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

User avatar
i_have_shiny_shoes
playing outside
Posts: 6162
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:36 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:27 am

Dagny wrote:Has Hillary said that she is retiring from politics. Just read that. She is 65 and does seem tired lately.


Bill two months ago:

"I don't know what she's gonna do," Clinton claimed. "I don't think she knows what she's gonna do. ... She says no. But I know how bone-tired you can get, you know ... She had eight years in the White House, then she had these six years in the Senate, then she had fours years of secretary of state. It's been a long 20 years."


It's not a "no", but the age issue could be a problem. She'd be just behind Reagan as the oldest President at an inauguration.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

User avatar
jono_in_adelaide
stewpid colonial
Posts: 11263
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:10 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:40 am

I guess i hadnt given any thought to how old she was - I think of her as she was in 1992, forgetting that 20 years have passed
Si vis pacem, para bellum

tph24601
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by tph24601 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:25 am

PTravel wrote:Jeb is a moderate, popular in Florida, married a Latino, is liked by Florida Cubans and believes in real immigration reform.

He is more like his dad than his brother. He is the Bush everyone thought they were getting in 2000.

yeah, but he still has to run the gaunlet during the GOP primaries, so he has to veer to the right to an extent, and that's what hurt Romney in the general election

I'd imagine the Bush name is still a bit radioactive even in 2016

User avatar
cowtown
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 25271
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:53 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by cowtown » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:07 pm

Rubio, really?

Go for it!

Seems like and out of touch move to me


From my experience, the very reason why the GOP likes him is the same as to why it won’t play in the Latin community, he’s perceived as an angry, entitled white man that happens to speak Spanish and has a darker complexion. Cubans in exile living in America are not well received and don’t score points with most other Latins. It may give the GOP Florida which was pretty irrelevant in this past election

A window dressing move really
Jim-2012 wrote:I *heart* Hitler



Image

tph24601
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by tph24601 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:44 pm

....man that happens to speak Spanish and has a darker complexion

for a party that has a 50% gap in Latinos, beggers can't be too choosy.....

of course, as Romney find out, presidential candidate can still be dragged down by crazy comments from other nutjob candidates of the same party, so having Rubio on the ticket doesn't mean Santorum/Ginrich/random teabagger won't be spouting off anti-immigrant stuff....

User avatar
Dagny
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:18 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Dagny » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:49 pm

cowtown wrote:Rubio, really?

From my experience, the very reason why the GOP likes him is the same as to why it won’t play in the Latin community, he’s perceived as an angry, entitled white man that happens to speak Spanish and has a darker complexion. Cubans in exile living in America are not well received and don’t score points with most other Latins. It may give the GOP Florida which was pretty irrelevant in this past election



Minorities savage most conservative minority Republicans so who cares. Every balck or Hispanics is "really" a white and entitled. I'd like some less creepy this time. I don't care race.
Free Leonard!

tph24601
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by tph24601 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:56 pm

Dagny wrote:Minorities savage most conservative minority Republicans so who cares. Every balck or Hispanics is "really" a white and entitled. I'd like some less creepy this time. I don't care race.

as opposed to Bill O'Reilly bitching about white people are now the minority and Obama got elected because his supporters "expect stuff"

User avatar
cowtown
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 25271
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:53 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by cowtown » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:01 pm

Dagny wrote:Minorities savage most conservative minority Republicans so who cares. Every balck or Hispanics is "really" a white and entitled. I'd like some less creepy this time. I don't care race.




I’m glad you are so colorblind but this would be a token move for the GOP as his name is most often now brought up in the context of getting the Latin vote

The Latin vote is one on the most fluid and if the GOP would get off their anti-socialist soap box they could easily pick up a lot of Latins on social issues. Many Latins, due to their catholic heritage are socially conservative but also because of their catholic heritage have a greater sense of community to help the greater good of the community through reasonable social safety nets

Republicans would know this if they actually mixed more with others

Be interesting to see if Rubio would pick up more new Latin votes for the GOP than he would lose from the GOP by being a Latin

What is the GOP if it’s not the party of the entitled, white, angry men and their cowed wives that are too afraid to remove the political burkas imposed by their husbands and vote in their own best interest?


I’ll tell you what it is; nothing !!!

So far, all the Republican soul searching shows they are still missing the point

We are stuck with a GOP house until at least the 2020 census due to their gerrymandering district in 2010 – so they’ll never really get how unpopular they really are and do whats needed to fix it
Jim-2012 wrote:I *heart* Hitler



Image

coffeeguy
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 9164
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:26 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by coffeeguy » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:06 pm

tph24601 wrote:
Dagny wrote:Minorities savage most conservative minority Republicans so who cares. Every black or Hispanics is "really" a white and entitled. I'd like some less creepy this time. I don't care race.

as opposed to Bill O'Reilly bitching about white people are now the minority and Obama got elected because his supporters "expect stuff"


Black americans arent going to trust some black republican candidate who fronts for a party where a significant minority dislike them and call them lazy moochers or worse. You either question that candidate's judgement (Cain) or whether they are playing the uncle tom game (Rice). It's a little different for Hispanics but again they arent going to vote enmass for some party that thinks it is fine to harrass them under the umbrella of stopping illegal immigration.

User avatar
AnnieOakley
stewed
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:54 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by AnnieOakley » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:29 pm

And there you have it.
You've been beating the dog for decades and all of a sudden you want it to sit-up and roll-over on command? Good luck with that.
You meet the same folks on the way up as you do on the way down.

tph24601
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by tph24601 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:44 pm

Condi Rice and Colin Powell are smart enough to know that they won't get more minority votes than the cracker votes lost if they enter as the GOP presidential candidate.

Having a minority faace would help, but it's really the policies that matter to the voters. Having every candidates in the primaries trying to outdo each other to deport the illegals WILL always result a big gap in Latino votes come general election time. It's not really that complicated....

User avatar
incognita
red fanged She-devil
Posts: 20240
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:11 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by incognita » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:59 pm

Best example of GOP tokenism? When they carpet-bagged Alan Keyes into the IL senate race against Obama, only because he was black. It was an appallingly tone-deaf move on their part. Same with Sarah Palin as a VP candidate - they thought a woman would pull in the Hillary voters, because they have the same reproductive system. The GOP can't overcome their record of policies that negatively affect minorities, and their outright demonization of them during the campaigns.

edited because I some words.
As an adult, the beer aisle at the grocery makes me feel exactly like the cereal aisle made me feel as a kid.

8645

tph24601
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 6640
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:32 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by tph24601 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:03 pm

When they carpet-bagged Alan Keyes into the IL senate race against Obama, only because he was black.

they are still paying for that mistake today, just ask Romney....

oh karma is such a bitch...

User avatar
judik
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 20787
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:21 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by judik » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:25 pm

The Latino community is pretty diverse
Leave it to the GOP to think that anyone with a vaguely sounding latino name is going to fit the bill
There is no love lost between people of mexican descent and cubans for example
One thing that has come out in this election is that who the candidate is matters

Rubio seems nice enough,though :wink:
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

Winston Churchill

User avatar
2wilzgood
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 14446
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by 2wilzgood » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:05 pm

i_have_shiny_shoes wrote:Hillary [has] already discounted [herself] from being appointed to the SC. [She'll] nearly be as old as the [person she'd be] replacing.


Ginsberg retires at the end of this term, HRClinton is an easy choice and breezily confirmed by the Senate.

She'd be sixty-six years old, younger than three or four of the others, and maintain three women on the SCOTUS.

She could affect law for twelve years and still retire at a younger age than will Ginsberg.

The SCOTUS is MUCH less of a grind than the presidency.

The only really difficult part being in the same room with Scalia, Thomas...

Y'all don't have a link to that 'discounted herself from being appointed', do you?
I used to feel empathy for the poor. Now I just want them all to die. - ScottBaio
You will die like a dog for no good reason. - Hemingway
My efforts here are wasted - wilz

User avatar
i_have_shiny_shoes
playing outside
Posts: 6162
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:36 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:31 pm

2wilzgood wrote:Ginsberg retires at the end of this term, HRClinton is an easy choice and breezily confirmed by the Senate.

She'd be sixty-six years old, younger than three or four of the others, and maintain three women on the SCOTUS.

She could affect law for twelve years and still retire at a younger age than will Ginsberg.

The SCOTUS is MUCH less of a grind than the presidency.

The only really difficult part being in the same room with Scalia, Thomas...

Y'all don't have a link to that 'discounted herself from being appointed', do you?


Not a direct quote from Hillary, but I think this makes it as good as done. As for keeping a third of justices as women, there are several other prospects, including Jacqueline Hong-Ngoc Nguyen and Kamala Harris.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

User avatar
crzypt
Incorrigible Testiclast
Posts: 2739
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:10 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by crzypt » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:51 pm

Hilary for President and Chris Christie crosses the aisle to become her running mate

The Anti-Christ and the Heretic - perfect together

Wouldn't that make the wingnut's heads explode :mrgreen:
I yam what I yam....except when I'm a sweet potato

User avatar
Godjira
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 64825
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:52 pm

Hillary in 2016?

Post by Godjira » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:01 pm

How about a Cory Booker and Chris Christie ticket? All New Jersey, All the Time.

"In God We Trust" would be changed to "not for nothing, cuz, but you should shut the fuck up!"
That's the kind of bold flavor they enjoy in Albuquerque!

User avatar
AnnieOakley
stewed
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:54 pm

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by AnnieOakley » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:12 pm

And Don Cory will give up protection in the East – and there will be the peace.
You meet the same folks on the way up as you do on the way down.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Hillary in 2016?

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:29 pm

I didn't vote for Hillary last time, nor would I in 2016.

Elizabeth Warren?

Post Reply