Portraits

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Re: Portraits

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:37 pm

He was never called an asshole.

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Re: Portraits

Post by leela » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:45 pm

fishface wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:09 pm
The subject has an almost anonymous quality and Michelle Obama wasn't that.
Thanks fishy. You've managed to put across exactly what I was wanting to say about it. The face could be anyone, yetMichelle Obama is so vibrant and with such an expressive face. The artist has basically ignored who she is, and surely the whole point of a portrait is to express the essence of a person.
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Re: Portraits

Post by cowtown » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:52 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:37 pm
He was never called an asshole.
thank you
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Re: Portraits

Post by snowgirl » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:01 pm

leela wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:45 pm
fishface wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:09 pm
The subject has an almost anonymous quality and Michelle Obama wasn't that.
Thanks fishy. You've managed to put across exactly what I was wanting to say about it. The face could be anyone, yetMichelle Obama is so vibrant and with such an expressive face. The artist has basically ignored who she is, and surely the whole point of a portrait is to express the essence of a person.
Yes, this is a good point, fishy. I like the painting but maybe not the best portrait of Michelle for posterity.
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Re: Portraits

Post by ben_hanscombe » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:02 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:37 pm
He was never called an asshole.
Adequate Post.
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Re: Portraits

Post by shilgia » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm

I could not care less about the symbolic flowers not growing on the same plant. And I also could not care less that a painter of a presidential portrait went for symbolism rather than painting the background that was actually behind Obama when he was posing for the portrait. There's no law against symbolism in presidential portraits and I don't think there should be a normative rule against it either.

Michelle's portrait is unfortunate. I like everything about it (the composition, the colors, the dress, etc.), just not the fact that it doesn't look like Michelle Obama.

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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:13 pm

"You haven't answered ny questions. Would you be happy with the painting if the artist had portrayed him with his arms growing out of his ears, or with his arms where his legs should be and vice versa? I wouldn't like it."

Possibly. Those things are certainly not a bar to me liking a painting - or even liking a portrait. Creative rearrangement of anatomy might make a point about some people. Trump with his arse and an elbow transposed, for example.
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Re: Portraits

Post by Shavenhead » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:15 pm

Image
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Re: Portraits

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:22 pm

shilgia wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm
I could not care less about the symbolic flowers not growing on the same plant. And I also could not care less that a painter of a presidential portrait went for symbolism rather than painting the background that was actually behind Obama when he was posing for the portrait. There's no law against symbolism in presidential portraits and I don't think there should be a normative rule against it either.

Michelle's portrait is unfortunate. I like everything about it (the composition, the colors, the dress, etc.), just not the fact that it doesn't look like Michelle Obama.
You can tell black people apart?

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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Shavenhead wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:15 pm
Image

What?
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Re: Portraits

Post by Shavenhead » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:29 pm

That's the most recent portrait of my president, and the artist.

Do you think it's in poor taste?
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Re: Portraits

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:30 pm

The teddy bear is a bit random.

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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:39 pm

Shavenhead wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:29 pm
That's the most recent portrait of my president, and the artist.

Do you think it's in poor taste?
Terribly.
I'd buy it, except I doubt I have that kind of money.
It looks more like a cover for a satirical magazine than anything else.
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Re: Portraits

Post by Shavenhead » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:41 pm

Well, it sure caused a shitstorm. Since Jayzee looks like he's on his way to the history books it could be quite valuable in years to come.
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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:42 pm

Mabulu explained that this work expressed many of the ideas of Steve Biko and Franz Fanon, and of the slave "trainer" Willie Lynch.

"I am talking about being fucked. We are being fucked by parliamentarians, we are being molested," he said.

He said the teddy bear Zuma holds behind his back signifies the age of the child - South Africa's young democracy. The child is being raped, has a saddle to symbolise a slave being tamed so that it can be of use to the economy, and is being violated from behind by a hyena, which symbolises mining and commercial giants.

The child is being milked. The milk runs into a can with the ANC's logo on it. The American and British colonial-era clothes are intended to show that power is still in the hands of people in power before apartheid.

He added that the president was, "taking pleasure at the same time, laughing like a hyena".

The circus tent in the painting has the ANC symbol on it.
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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:06 pm

i love his portrait of Gertrude Stein.

She says that somebody said to him: "But she doesn't look lke that." "She will," he replied.

Image

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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:14 pm

There you go Vinny - It's virtually cubist and yet you accept the impressionistic face, naive shading, wonky perspective and unrealistic background. You're a short imaginative step from seeing unrelated flowers blooming from a single vine and accepting them as a little creative flourish rather than a jarring botanical impossibility.
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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:20 pm

I missed a page. That was in response to SD asking me what I thought of Picasso.

DCC: Yes, I am a step short of that, and two steps short of being happy with his arms growing out of his ears, to symbolize that his strength came from brain power.

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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:21 pm

shilgia wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm
Michelle's portrait is unfortunate. I like everything about it (the composition, the colors, the dress, etc.), just not the fact that it doesn't look like Michelle Obama.
i'm not a fan of it either but i did read a review that argued the opposite of your point: the artist was actually trying to convey a side of Michelle's essence that is different from how people see her -- a softer, more graceful side (i'm paraphrasing). Sherald's work is, to me, typically very different from this portrait -- usually brighter colors. but her work is not known for accurate depictions of faces, it's more in the naive tradition -- so she was a bit of an odd choice to paint the portrait

personally, i think it would have been great to have a set of portraits by Wiley done for the two of them -- Michelle was such a bold, colorful, charismatic part of that administration, and would have been a totally suitable subject for Kehinde.
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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:22 pm

his arms growing out of his ears, to symbolize that his strength came from brain power.
That would be shit.
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Re: Portraits

Post by ben_hanscombe » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:23 pm

shilgia wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm
There's no law against symbolism in presidential portraits and I don't think there should be a normative rule against it.
I don’t think anyone has said otherwise. (I think korgy thinks Vinny has said otherwise.
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Re: Portraits

Post by Annotated » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:24 pm

korgy wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:21 pm
personally, i think it would have been great to have a set of portraits by Wiley done for the two of them -- Michelle was such a bold, colorful, charismatic part of that administration, and would have been a totally suitable subject for Kehinde.
Just curious.

Do you ever read what you write?

And if you do, what do you think of it?
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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:29 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:06 pm
i love his portrait of Gertrude Stein.

She says that somebody said to him: "But she doesn't look lke that." "She will," he replied.

Image
i've always loved that painting, and visited it many times at the Metropolitan when i was younger -- thanks for the reminder. it;s a great story too, (although we'll never know if it was actually true...Stein very well could have made it up)

the image, to me, is more about Picasso's fascination with Iberian sculpture during that period than it is about reproducing Stein's face
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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:33 pm

ben_hanscombe wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:23 pm
shilgia wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm
There's no law against symbolism in presidential portraits and I don't think there should be a normative rule against it.
I don’t think anyone has said otherwise. (I think korgy thinks Vinny has said otherwise.
nope, not me. in fact, i was going to point out to shilgia that Vinny would typically respond that he never said there should be rules against using symbolism in presidential portraits.

ben, i do wish people wold direct their responses to the appropriate posters.

i am simply fascinated by the fact of the two different flowers depicted growing amidst the same leaves is something that bothers Vinny.
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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:37 pm

Sheela Stein.jpg
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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:43 pm

It was actually your Bosch that brought that sculpture to my mind, DCC.

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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:47 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:20 pm
two steps short of being happy with his arms growing out of his ears, to symbolize that his strength came from brain power.
do you think showing arms growing out of ears as a symbol a brain power is an apt analogy to an artist, who typically uses symbols in decorative pattern motifs, using flowers representing places from Obama's personal history amidst a backdrop of verdant greenery?

to me, it's a pretty silly analogy.
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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:55 pm

What difference does it make if the artist typically does something? You said something like that before when I said I didn't like about the way the chair seemed to be floating in midair. Should I like it more because he has painted other things the same way? Why?

I take it you have your limits too, and are glad that the arms are attached to the shoulders.

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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 pm

The flower called the African blue lily is not native to Kenya. I don't know if it grows there at all. But hey, Africa is all just Africa, right?

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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 pm

I'd not made the connection before, but Picasso was influenced by Spanish sculpture and Sheela na gig is Spanish as well as Irish, French and English.

The similar heavy lidded wide eyes, broad nose almond shaped face have probably got more to do with the way a reductive image of a woman is likely to end up but once you start looking for parallels even Stein's chabot echoes Sheela's labia.
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Re: Portraits

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:58 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 pm
The flower called the African blue lily is not native to Kenya. I don't know if it grows there at all. But hey, Africa is all just Africa, right?
There'll be bluebirds over the white cliffs of Dover, Vinny.
Tomorrow - just you wait and see.
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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:05 pm

Vinny, do you think showing arms growing out of ears as a symbol a brain power is an apt analogy to an artist using flowers representing places from Obama's personal history amidst a decorative backdrop of verdant greenery?

to me, it's a pretty silly analogy.
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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:22 pm

African Blue Lilies apparently are native to southern parts of Africa, but are being grown in Kenya now:
http://www.florinews.com/index.php/feat ... g-in-kenya
Small-Scale Flower Farming Thriving In Kenya

Small-scale flower farming in the country was not given much emphasis in the past but this is changing gradually as farmers from various parts of the country continue to embrace this practice supported by players in the industry. A recent visit to Kinangop area of Nyandarua County revealed that small-scale farmers have embraced flower farming and are reaping cash out of the venture.

Farmers who in the past preferred to grow traditional food crops are now moving towards summer flower production which they say is far much better in terms of income. The farmers have come together to form groups and through the help of agents they have been able to sell their flowers through the auction in the European market.

One such group, Multigrow Investments, with a total of 86 members drawn from Nyandarua, Nakuru, Kiambu, Nyeri and Murang’a counties has been cashing in from small-scale flower farming. According to Multigrow chairman Mr. Peter Murimi, the farmers sought the assistance of agents who are well versed with the market to help in marketing their products.

“We have engaged the services of agents who assist us in marketing our products through the auction in Europe. The proceeds from the sales are them divided among the farmers as per the number of the flower stems,” says Murimi.

They grow varieties such as eryngium, mobidique, allium, claspedia, mollucella, scabiosa, agapanthus, ornis, lilies among other summer flowers mostly used as fillers. Mr. Murimi said that the Blue Agapanthus has been doing exceptionally well due to its high demand on the European market.
(cont)
i think using a flower native to the continent in general is totally fine as a symbol, although that's not what the debate was really about -- it was about why one is bothered by different flowers appearing against a backdrop of leaves as if they grow together.
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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:25 pm

Do I think it is exactly the same? Is that what you mean? No, I think it is different.

But I think it establishes the principle that most of us will draw a line as to how much departure from realistic representation can be justified in a presidential portrait in the name of symbolism. You and I draw the line in different places. I think having three flowers of different species growing from one bush looks silly. You apparently think (as do I) that arms growing out of ears would look silly.

Now, I answered your question even though you asked it without first answering the question I asked you. Does the fact that the artist has done similar things before mean that I should like it better here, and if so why?

I agree that Africa is all just Africa.

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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:11 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:25 pm
Do I think it is exactly the same? Is that what you mean? No, I think it is different.
no, i didnt ask if it was exactly the same, i asked if it was an apt analogy. you think it is, i dont think so. i think the comparison is silly (among other reasons because an arm growing out of an ear would obviously distract from the portrait *for most people* in a very blatant and visually ludicrous way . the two different flowers in the greenery is not blatantly, visually ludicrous in the same way to most people. no i have not taken a survey, and i wont.)
Now, I answered your question even though you asked it without first answering the question I asked you. Does the fact that the artist has done similar things before mean that I should like it better here, and if so why?
i did answer your question by altering my question the second time i wrote it. did you notice i had changed it? you're right, the artist's pre-disposition to a certain style doesnt have much to do with whether or not that style bothers someone in the present instance -- it doesnt make it better or worse.
I agree that Africa is all just Africa.
but to me, when you wrote "But hey, Africa is all just Africa, right?" it sounded like you were being sarcastic in a sort of Felix/Moe smirky way. it sounds like you believe that simply using a flower from somewhere in Africa is rather simple-minded, if the flower is not actually native to the country Obama's father was from. the comment "I agree that Africa is all just Africa" sounds, to me, like a back-pedal. surely you're not going to pretend that "But hey, Africa is all just Africa, right?" was not a bit sarcastic?
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Re: Portraits

Post by ben_hanscombe » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:29 pm

korgy wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:33 pm
ben_hanscombe wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:23 pm
shilgia wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm
There's no law against symbolism in presidential portraits and I don't think there should be a normative rule against it.
I don’t think anyone has said otherwise. (I think korgy thinks Vinny has said otherwise.
nope, not me. in fact, i was going to point out to shilgia that Vinny would typically respond that he never said there should be rules against using symbolism in presidential portraits.

ben, i do wish people wold direct their responses to the appropriate posters.
I did. This post you quoted was directed at Shilgia, because it’s in response to something Shilgia said. An earlier post of mine in this thread was directed at you, but you didn’t respond to it.
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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 pm

Korgy, In an analogy, "a is to b as c is to d," one is not saying that a is like c. I keep trying to explain this to temporaryhandle2 and maybe some day she will get it. For now, if I say that the inability to prove the nonexistence of leprechauns does not make one agnostic as to their existence just as the inability to prove the nonexistence of God does not make one agnostic as to God's existence, she thinks I am saying God = leprechaun.

I think my question about whether you would be OK with a presidential portrait with arms growing out of the ears to symbolize intellectual strength was apt, because it established the principle I set forth above. I was not saying that such a portrait would necessarily be as good as the Wiley portrait.

When I said that "I agree that Africa is all just Africa" I was referring to your statement that "i think using a flower native to the continent in general is totally fine as a symbol" of Obama"s ancestral home, and I was indeed being sarcastic.

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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:41 pm

Korgy, this question is still out there:

What difference does it make if the artist typically does something? You said something like that before when I said I didn't like about the way the chair seemed to be floating in midair. Should I like it more because he has painted other things the same way? Why?

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Re: Portraits

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:43 pm

section8 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:56 am
Nothing will ever approach this.

Image
Could you provide a link for this one, section 8? I'd like to read about it.

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Re: Portraits

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:44 pm

I really like the portrait of Obama. The one of Michelle seems flat and characterless.

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Re: Portraits

Post by korgy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 pm
Korgy, In an analogy, "a is to b as c is to d," one is not saying that a is like c. I keep trying to explain this to temporaryhandle2 and maybe some day she will get it.
i know that. that is so condescending.

i asked if you thought your analogy of flowers from different regions growing amidst the same leaves, to arms growing out of ears, is an apt one in this situation. i dont think it is, and i explained why. saying the analogy is that neither are possible in the real world does not make it apt, and i told you why: arms growing out of ears is blatantly, visually ludicrous.

the simple fact that one remote aspect of an analogy holds true does not make it a good one or an apt one. if i watch a video clip of an apple tree, and say i am bothered by an apple falling, it does not mean that comparing it to a clip of a human body being thrown from a building is an apt one just because it also involves falling objects that are bothersome.
When I said that "I agree that Africa is all just Africa" I was referring to your statement that "i think using a flower native to the continent in general is totally fine as a symbol" of Obama"s ancestral home, and I was indeed being sarcastic.
glad we agree that you were being sarcastic, and that we disagree on whether an African blue lily is an ok symbol for Obama's ancestral home.
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Re: Portraits

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:07 pm

Vinny's latest obsession is the analogy. Having discovered it's a way to talk about subjects without actually knowing anything about them, he gets to tell even more people they are wrong.

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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:10 pm

Korgy, you think the analogy is not apt because arms growing out of ears are very different from flowers of different species growing on the same bush.

I agree that they are very different, but disagree that that makes my question inapt. I think it can be useful in an argument to consider an extreme hypothetical in order to establish whether what is in dispute is a basic principle or just a matter of degree.
we have established that here it is a matter of degree. I think the fact that we have established that proves that my question was apt.

Did you notice that I have asked you a question three times now? Would you like me to repeat it?

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Re: Portraits

Post by Scrubb » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:27 am

Vinny, he answered that question:
korgy wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:11 pm
VinnyD wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:25 pm
Now, I answered your question even though you asked it without first answering the question I asked you. Does the fact that the artist has done similar things before mean that I should like it better here, and if so why?
i did answer your question by altering my question the second time i wrote it. did you notice i had changed it? you're right, the artist's pre-disposition to a certain style doesnt have much to do with whether or not that style bothers someone in the present instance -- it doesnt make it better or worse.
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Re: Portraits

Post by Nines » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:44 am

I think the portraits suck. Couldn't they have found better artists to depict a dignified presidency?

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Nines
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Re: Portraits

Post by Nines » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:08 am

Barack Obama has sperm in his hair and six fingers.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... s-forehead

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Annotated
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Re: Portraits

Post by Annotated » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:23 am

Nines wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:08 am
Barack Obama has sperm in his hair
LOL!

I was going to call bullshit, but then I saw the bit about the tweets.

Looks like The Donald gave him a facial.

Fucktard artist. That's a libtard for you.
This board is my life.

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Godjira
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Re: Portraits

Post by Godjira » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:09 am

Here's a portrait that reflects the dignity of the Trump administration

Image
That's the kind of bold flavor they enjoy in Albuquerque!

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gnd
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Re: Portraits

Post by gnd » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:16 am

shilgia wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm
I could not care less about the symbolic flowers not growing on the same plant. And I also could not care less that a painter of a presidential portrait went for symbolism rather than painting the background that was actually behind Obama when he was posing for the portrait. There's no law against symbolism in presidential portraits and I don't think there should be a normative rule against it either.

Michelle's portrait is unfortunate. I like everything about it (the composition, the colors, the dress, etc.), just not the fact that it doesn't look like Michelle Obama.
^
Taking advantage of what is not working to make changes in your life often leads to your greatest opportunities and accomplishments --GND

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Re: Portraits

Post by VinnyD » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:17 am

Thanks, Scrubb. Sorry, korgy.

Nines, stop reading 4Chan. The fact that the poster putting that story forward called the Obamas king and queen nigger should have given you pause. TPM.

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