Our friends

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Klara
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Our friends

Post by Klara » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:02 pm

Inspred by Barb's thread about her awful friends:

One of my oldest friends and her partner occasionally slap their son.
They talk about it openly, at least in front of me, and also say it doesn't help.

Now I've loved this woman for at least 25 years, but this is making it difficult for me to fully respect her.

Those of you who don't mind admitting you have imperfect friends, how do you deal with stuff like this? How much do you interfere?

I'm not asking for advice, I'm just wondering.

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sieve
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Re: Our friends

Post by sieve » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:47 pm

If it doesn't help...... why are they doing it?


Is what I would say at the very least.

I don't have any friends.
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Re: Our friends

Post by Potpie » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:50 pm

ugh. i would lose all respect, too, especially when they say it doesn't work and they still do it.
I'd get pissed off. If it doesn't work, stop slapping your kid, you fucking idiot.

imperfect friends: i pretty much faded on one. it's been a few years, she's attempted to touch base once or twice but i didn't bother responding back. i'll probably get in touch back up with her eventually, and i'm pretty sure i'll speak my mind if she ever says things that made me lose respect for her in the first place. She pretty much blames the victim (kids) and especially the women in various scenarios. Yet her daughter is put on a pedestal, and i'm pretty sure she'd lose her shit if the father was ever violent with the daughter (he's not). And don't get me wrong, i'm glad she'd protect her daughter, she just doesn't have the same outlook for other kids and women.

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Homerj
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Re: Our friends

Post by Homerj » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:53 pm

When u don't have kids you stay out of parenting comments.
My parents didn't hit me and I turned out just wonderful...so I'm gonna side with you Klara.
I'm going to the back seat of my car, with the woman I love, and I won't be back for ten minutes!

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Re: Our friends

Post by EMG » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:57 pm

sieve wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:47 pm
I don't have any friends.
Me either, which makes dealing with this kind of stuff much easier.

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Re: Our friends

Post by Potpie » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:03 pm

my parents hit me and i was angry and resentful. And after my father hit me as a teen (punched me in the head and dragged me by my hair across the living room into the kitchen) _I_ became violent around guys. (punching and kicking a lot of them)

So yeah, i side with Klara and homer with not hitting the kids.

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Klara
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Re: Our friends

Post by Klara » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:08 pm

It doesn't have to do with parenting, Homer. They can be imperfect in any other way.

sieve wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:47 pm
If it doesn't help...... why are they doing it?
Don't get me started.

But yes, they know exactly how I feel about this. They also know my father hit me twice when I was a teenager, and they know how I felt and still feel about him. They've always known that.

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Re: Our friends

Post by lolasf » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:25 pm

Imperfect friends? I have those, plus I probably am one!

Two of my oldest friends are on a fast downhill slide with alcoholism & addiction. They've always been drinkers, but they're going way out of bounds recently, offending people and being awful and hurtful.

I have no idea how to deal with it. Right now I'm avoiding and ignoring, but I'm having a very hard time not interfering. I know my interference won't help at all, that's what stops me right now.
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Re: Our friends

Post by leela » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:27 pm

I've posted before about my friends who are turning out to be a bit racist. I find it very difficult, because they are my oldest friends and they've been extremely kind and generous to us over the decades. They've always lived in a totally white bread world though, and their attitudes have relatively recently been affected by their son being in the police for a while, in an area of high immigration.

I've pointed out to them, that as a police officer, he was only coming into contact with the criminal element of the town where he worked. And I spend a lot of time saying "that's not my experience" (of working with the same community in the same town). They know I don't agree with their outlook, and we don't get into any conversations that might get tricky.

I wish they didn't think the way they do, but they're more than their ignorance of other cultures. That said, I don't see as much of them as I used to before they started showing those attitudes.
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Re: Our friends

Post by brodie_bruce » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:40 pm

lolasf wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:25 pm
Imperfect friends? I have those, plus I probably am one!
Snap!

I suspect that out of the immediate group of friends that I'm the most flawed (the others are well and truly married / coupled up which keeps them on the relative straight and narrow).
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Re: Our friends

Post by tortuga » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:45 pm

I don't have imperfect friends. That's what family's for. I deal with it by living in a different country and maintaining very low contact with them. The one I struggle with the most is the one I'm actually close to, because we occasionally still talk about serious personal things and it's very counterproductive.

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Re: Our friends

Post by Chip_Oatley » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:58 pm

tortuga wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:45 pm
I don't have imperfect friends. That's what family's for.
Yeah, I don't have any friends who beat their children, is racist/homophobic, and/or same level of "imperfect." I'd call that shitty, rather than imperfect. We are all imperfect.

One friend (who is a wonderful mother and is very progressive) has an unfortunate tendency to gossip about others and spill their secrets, so I've put some distance there in the last few years.

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Re: Our friends

Post by Chip_Oatley » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:59 pm

tortuga wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:45 pm
I don't have imperfect friends. That's what family's for.
Yeah, I don't have any friends who beat their children, are (AFAIK) racist/homophobic, and/or similar level of "imperfect." I'd call that shitty, rather than imperfect. We are all imperfect.

One friend (who is a wonderful mother and is very progressive) has an unfortunate tendency to gossip about others and spill their secrets, so I've put some distance there in the last few years.

Too easy to hit the quote button rather than edit button.

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Re: Our friends

Post by Barbarella » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:28 pm

My friends aren't awful just self centred and scared to be alone. Like many.

I went on hols with a friend and her daughter who was about 9 at the time. Friend slapped her a good few times in a bloody souvenir shop one day. No one intervened, I pulled the kid to me who was roaring crying and comforted her. When we got back to base I said I never wanted to see her doing that to her kid in my presence of course saying she shouldnt be doing it at all.

She was half remorseful half disgusted with me for "interfering in her parenting". Her excuse was her mother regularly beat her, I said how'd that make you feel then? I saw a flicker but she pretty much thought it was her right. She adored the daughter and vice versa but that was one horrible day. They moved outta the country years ago. Its an extremely tough thing to see or intervene in.

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Re: Our friends

Post by cowtown » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:42 pm

Homerj wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:53 pm
When u don't have kids you stay out of parenting comments.
This

I’ve never seen my friends hit their kids but I know I’ve been tempted to hit one of their kids
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Re: Our friends

Post by txgirl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:45 pm

The question for me is who has perfect friends?

We all have flaws.

In the case of your friend Klara, I would be asking, when do I step in? Regardless of how you feel about the friend or whether you should keep friendship, since there is a helpless child involved, I feel the more important issue is whether you should interfere and when should you do so.

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Re: Our friends

Post by jessica_fletcher » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:48 pm

Homerj wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:53 pm
When u don't have kids you stay out of parenting comments.


X a billion
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leela
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Re: Our friends

Post by leela » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:53 pm

I think we all know we're less than perfect. I even witnessed friends discussing my imperfection once (they were blissfully unaware that I had) But there are some imperfections that go against our own attitudes to a point where it feels wrong. And hitting kids or having attitudes about race or sexuality that go against our own, need some conscious assessment. And history plays a part.
I'm not going to dump these old friends, but if new acquaintances had those attitudes, they wouldn't become friends.
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Klara
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Re: Our friends

Post by Klara » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:57 pm

Again, this is not just about parenting. Parenting is not the only thing we do wrong. I'm sure this particular friend of mine judges me a bit for having an eventful single life, for example, which makes me her very much imperfect friend.



I told them about a great child psychologist two other friends of ours are taking their kids to, but she said oh no, it's not that bad yet, and anyway it's our fault he's behaving the way he is, we're under so much stress all the time etc etc.
They clearly haven't thought about this much.

But I feel kinda smug talking to them about raising their problematic child, what with my son being so laid-back and well-behaved. I have no idea what they're going through, I just know slapping the kid is not the way to go about it.

I'm somewhat hopeful they've discussed it a bit after our conversation last Thursday. I feel like they might have.

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Re: Our friends

Post by section8 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm

A friend of mine went on a meth binge and murdered his girlfriend’s two year old. Beat her so bad her vertebrae in her neck severed. He showed no remorse in court, quite the opposite, really.
My revolutionary farmer friend once labeled me as "severely creative." Yes, yes, I like tall-bike building and riding, making fermented foods, wild-crafting and being silent in places where there are no human sounds.

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Re: Our friends

Post by section8 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm

Maybe that doesn’t count since we are no longer friends.
My revolutionary farmer friend once labeled me as "severely creative." Yes, yes, I like tall-bike building and riding, making fermented foods, wild-crafting and being silent in places where there are no human sounds.

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Klara
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Re: Our friends

Post by Klara » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm

Also, I agree with Leela and also Txgirl, which is why I haven' t kept my mouth shut.

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Re: Our friends

Post by Klara » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:02 pm

section8 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
Maybe that doesn’t count since we are no longer friends.
Ah. Good. I was about to ask if he still got invited to dinner parties.

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Re: Our friends

Post by cowtown » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:04 pm

section8 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
A friend of mine went on a meth binge and murdered his girlfriend’s two year old. Beat her so bad her vertebrae in her neck severed. He showed no remorse in court, quite the opposite, really.

you know the Palins?
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Re: Our friends

Post by Barbarella » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:05 pm

Klara wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:02 pm
section8 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
Maybe that doesn’t count since we are no longer friends.
Ah. Good. I was about to ask if he still got invited to dinner parties.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Our friends

Post by Barbarella » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:06 pm

Still, what a horrendous story.

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Re: Our friends

Post by Moethebartender » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:17 pm

cowtown wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:04 pm
section8 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
A friend of mine went on a meth binge and murdered his girlfriend’s two year old. Beat her so bad her vertebrae in her neck severed. He showed no remorse in court, quite the opposite, really.

you know the Palins?
That or Amerikkkan Joe's uncle, maybe.
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Re: Our friends

Post by txgirl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Racist? I think I have a couple. Not blatant but you know they have their prejudices. I just steer clear of those discussions.

Politically conservative? Same as above, I steer clear.

Dysfunctional relationships? Ha! I even have a friend who did get pregnant and kept the baby daddy hoping that her relationship with baby would progress. (Of course it has not). While I’m there to listen and sometimes advise, I don’t get sucked in.

Drugs? Let me just say that I have been educated about the dark web.

Life isn’t black and white so if you let go of people who make questionable choices, who would you have left? And how boring is it to have friends who are exactly like yourself.

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Re: Our friends

Post by txgirl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:35 pm

To answer Klara’s question

I interfere when I think friend is hurting themselves and seem to need perspective, also knowing that voicing my opinion could ruin friendship. I did so a few years ago with a friend who is in her 30s and has not had a job, ever, and still living with her parents to this day. We were really good friends and I didn’t (and still don’t) think less of her, but I also knew her situation caused her distress and she wasn’t living to her full potential, so one day I found an opportunity to say something. I tried to be constructive and nice about it, but she only heard criticism. We are no longer friends. But I couldn’t live with myself if I continued to keep quite and I knew that if I said something that was the potential fall out.

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Re: Our friends

Post by shilgia » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:41 pm

section8 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
A friend of mine went on a meth binge and murdered his girlfriend’s two year old. Beat her so bad her vertebrae in her neck severed. He showed no remorse in court, quite the opposite, really.
Holy crap. Were you friends with him at the time?

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Re: Our friends

Post by Moethebartender » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:58 pm

shilgia wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:41 pm
sectionhate wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm
A friend of mine went on a meth binge and murdered his girlfriend’s two year old. Beat her so bad her vertebrae in her neck severed. He showed no remorse in court, quite the opposite, really.
Holy crap. Were you friends with him at the time?
Friends? I believe that in court the words he used were "he's my inspiration".
Korgy on Oprah wrote:she has done some amazing things that no one else has been able to do, like get mainstream American women to actually read real books -- and not trash. and to actually talk about issues of substance.

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Re: Our friends

Post by DCComic » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:03 pm

Who has perfect friends?
פולאר הוא שקרן - I want my fucking money back - The only reason you continue to participate is because you hate me personally.

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Re: Our friends

Post by leela » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:11 pm

DCComic wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:03 pm
Who has perfect friends?
No-one. I think we've established that already. But I think Klara's OP is fairly clear with its example of the sort of issues she's asking about.
Pass the wine...

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Re: Our friends

Post by DCComic » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:30 pm

leela wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:11 pm
DCComic wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:03 pm
Who has perfect friends?
No-one. I think we've established that already. But I think Klara's OP is fairly clear with its example of the sort of issues she's asking about.
OK.
I'd not interfere in parenting unless the crime was so egregious there could be no friendship. A slap on the leg vs a belt across the back.
I dont have friends who make crass generalisations.
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Klara
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Re: Our friends

Post by Klara » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:50 pm

DCComic wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:03 pm
Who has perfect friends?
No one, but some people don't feel comfortable talking about it.

And for the 16th time, I'm not only talking about parenting issues.

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Re: Our friends

Post by section8 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:02 pm

Some of my best, lifelong friends are Trumpies.
My revolutionary farmer friend once labeled me as "severely creative." Yes, yes, I like tall-bike building and riding, making fermented foods, wild-crafting and being silent in places where there are no human sounds.

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Re: Our friends

Post by DCComic » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:02 pm

Yes, I know, but given that nobody is perfect and at some point the imperfection would preclude a friendship at all what are you looking for?
Is it the worst thing you'd tolerate from a friend? But then how close is the friendship? Anyway, different friends fit into different parts of your life.
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Klara
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Re: Our friends

Post by Klara » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:09 pm

Another friend of mine, for example, should have left her awful partner long ago, but has a long-term lover instead. She's miserable and completely worn out, but doesn't do anything about it.
But I find this easier to accept than slapping your child. I'm desperate for her to do something, but mostly because I hate seeing her so miserable.

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Re: Our friends

Post by snowgirl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:28 pm

I have a friend who's father died when she was young, 13 yo or so. She's super productive, hard working, a great friend, etc. But she's deeply fucked up from losing her dad, feels like shit about herself all the time, and has disastrous relationships with men. I want to tell her to get help but she hasn't. I wish I could do more to support her and help her but I can't take her in large doses because she can be so fucking, unrelentingly negative.
Our problem is civil obedience. -Howard Zinn

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Re: Our friends

Post by Homerj » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:34 pm

You people are saints. if I had a friend like SG's she would have been in the rearview mirror years ago.
I'm going to the back seat of my car, with the woman I love, and I won't be back for ten minutes!

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Re: Our friends

Post by snowgirl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:47 pm

Well, she's also awesome. Troubled, yes. All your friends are trouble-free, Homes?
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Re: Our friends

Post by cowtown » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Klara wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:50 pm
DCComic wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:03 pm
Who has perfect friends?
No one, but some people don't feel comfortable talking about it.

And for the 16th time, I'm not only talking about parenting issues.
without the parenting issues, the is OP what are friends?

which is a bit much for me to answer right now
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Re: Our friends

Post by Homerj » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:59 pm

snowgirl wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:47 pm
Well, she's also awesome. Troubled, yes. All your friends are trouble-free, Homes?
Mentally....yes.
Of course some have health related issues, but depression or psychotic type behavior is not something that anyone I know has, or if they do they do an excellent job hiding it.
My life is too short to be dealing with folks who have chronic ongoing issues, of course everyone gets periodic times in their life when they are down and you are there for them then, but someone who consistantly showed the same issues over and over again....I would distance myself.
Maybe I'm selfish.....
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Re: Our friends

Post by DCComic » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:10 pm

So Homer, how long would you be 'there for them', before you realise your life is too short and turned your back?
Suppose it was your wife? Would the same apply to a physical illness?
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Re: Our friends

Post by Homerj » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:17 pm

DCComic wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:10 pm
So Homer, how long would you be 'there for them', before you realise your life is too short and turned your back?
Suppose it was your wife? Would the same apply to a physical illness?
Can't you read?
I said we all have physical issues to deal with, that's completely different.
My wife or a relative is not a friend...different scenario.
SG asked about my friends....no I do not have any friends with any serious ongoing mental issues, and I nor would deal with the type of drama that SG does.....I have little time for people who constantly need attention or worse are constantly negative (someone else post).
I'm going to the back seat of my car, with the woman I love, and I won't be back for ten minutes!

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Re: Our friends

Post by jessica_fletcher » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:19 pm

I do not have any friends with any serious ongoing mental issues
Not that you know of, you might be surprised.

Homer, did you actually have closer friends. This is not an insult i mean i just think of you and Marge and then people you see socially. Do you know what i mean? Actual close personal friends.
Last edited by jessica_fletcher on Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our friends

Post by Homerj » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:20 pm

jessica_fletcher wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:19 pm
I do not have any friends with any serious ongoing mental issues
Not that you know of, you might be surprised.
Thats why I said it that way jess....who really knows?
I'm sure some folks are really good at hiding it.
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Re: Our friends

Post by jessica_fletcher » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:22 pm

Sorry, i edited

Homer, do ou actually have close friends. This is not an insult, i mean i just think of you and Marge and then people you see socially. Do you know what i mean? Actual close personal friends.
NA, I dont use ' when typing informally online. I gave them up in 2013.

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Re: Our friends

Post by DCComic » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:23 pm

I said we all have physical issues to deal with, that's completely different.
No, it isn't. Mental illness, like physical illness, can be sudden and unexpected. Like physical illness its's indiscriminate.
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Re: Our friends

Post by Homerj » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:24 pm

Of course.
I have 5 "best friends" all guys...and some of their wives I would consider as best friends to.
Then we have a larger social circle of people who we may see say once a month or less, bbq's fund raisers, skiing, cottage that kind of thing.
Why do u ask?
I'm going to the back seat of my car, with the woman I love, and I won't be back for ten minutes!

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