We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "haha"

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Citizen Baba » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:16 am

I'll occasionally drink eight or nine and then drive home within the city. I'd have to careening against cars in Baltimore City to pulled over.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by strife » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:20 am

temporaryhandle2 wrote:
muthafunky wrote:It's a big deal here, it's in our constitution.


Yes it's in our law too. It's called Habeous Corpus. Quite well known in many jurisdictions for many hundreds of years before the drafting of the US Constitution.

Funny that ...


It doesn't bode well for a country when even its lawyers can't spell habeas corpus.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by GLimpet » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:28 am

I've been pulled over twice in two weeks driving in Australia this time.
Once at 1pm and once at 3pm, Thursday and a Friday.

Never been tested in 35 years driving in the UK but the penalties are severe if caught, so I just don't. Helped by the convenience of living in town.

Country pubs are dead in both countries, of course.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Iolar » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:38 am

In the US, the right to slaughter people is preeminent, whether it's with an arsenal or a motorised vehicle. It's called progress.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Smoker » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:09 am

strife wrote:I drink entire bottles of wine and drive my Car around and don't give a fuck. Granted I'm 6'9. But still.

When living in Toronto I used to do that a lot and since it was the 1980s even combined the alcohol with a couple rails of coke.

Then I moved to the USA to trade in Philadelphia, New York & Chicago and decided to clean up my act not wanting to risk being the Canadian in an American jail yada yada yada.

Then I moved to Europe and generally didn't drive a lot since I was working in downtown Frankfurt, Paris and London.

Then once I landed in the Sandbox I was stunned at the amount of not expat drunk driving but totally pissed driving going on in the Abu Dhabi bar scene. Then after about 12 to 15 years of going with the flow and not being concerned at all about Sandbox drinking and driving I noticed about five years ago how the traffic was about double verses when I arrived in the Sandbox so I decided to grow up and finally give up drinking and driving.

It was a pretty good decision to give up drinking and driving in the Sandbox even though they don't have a breathalyzer on the spot because if you are drunk and get into an accident they take you to the hospital for the blood test and if you fail you are not going to get a lot of sympathy of any Islamic legal system in the Middle East.

When I go home to Canada they have the "ride program" running over the Christmas holidays and if feels like the police are hunting for people a hair over the impaired driving limit rather than concentrating on the truly dangerous drunk drivers but you don't have any choice other than to conform and just live with it.

Years ago my brother got nailed drunk driving in Canada and would have lost his license for quite a while which he needed for his job. However he had my renewed Ontario drivers license in the car which he had picked up for me a few days earlier and hadn't got around to mailing to me out in the Sandbox.

So for a drunk guy he thought fast and opened up my renewed license and handed it to the police as he pretended to be me.

Out here I use my UAE license so pretending to be me he got Smoker a driving suspension in Canada and then mailed my Ontario license to me.

It wasn't until years later he admitted pulling this off and I think it was for just a year or two suspension but I am not entirely certain but regardless I didn't know about it so when I was home at Christmas I was driving around with a suspended Ontario drivers license.

It was years later but I was still pretty pissed when he finally confessed since if he just told me from when it first happened if I was stopped over Christmas in Canada I would have been sure to only show the OPP my UAE drivers license and everything would be A-Ok ( I hope).

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:20 am

muthafunky wrote:
temporaryhandle2 wrote:
muthafunky wrote:It's a big deal here, it's in our constitution.


Yes it's in our law too. It's called Habeous Corpus. Quite well known in many jurisdictions for many hundreds of years before the drafting of the US Constitution.

Funny that ...


Being a law is not nearly as big a deal as being in our constitution.


Your constitution is simply a set of laws. They can be and have been changed. The British legal system (and those legal systems derived from it, which use precedent from as far back as the Magna Carta) can also have its laws changed. If anything, changing anything as long-established as habeas corpus would be more difficult in the British system than the American, where a good PR campaign would enable it.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:22 am

Are the Aussies upset again that we don't share their love for Big Government?

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Iolar » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:23 am

Mutha believes a constitution is easily amended, once it isn't the US one, which is a magical document to be revered.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:28 am

EMG wrote:Are the Aussies upset again that we don't share their love for Big Government?


If a country had 2 road deaths a year and both of them involved alcohol it would have scored 100 on that chart. It says nothing useful about road safety campaigns.

It's precisely BECAUSE many road deaths involve alcohol that it is strictly policed.

And it isn't "big government", it's big community.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:31 am

Ah so per capita doesn't matter.

Looks like you guys are doing pretty well though being stopped 14 times per week for random testing. Carry on.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Iolar » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:34 am

On the Wiki map related to per capita RTA deaths, the US is closer in colour to North African countries than it is to Northern European ones. Just saying.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:39 am

Nothing to do with per capita. The chart shows the % of alcohol-related road deaths.

If a country had 2 roads deaths a year and both involved alcohol it would have scored 100. If it had a million road deaths and 300,000 were due to akcohol it would have scored 30.

Which country would benefit more from stronger policing of drink driving?

And no, I feel about breath-test stops the same way I feel about school crossings. You don't have to stop for them very often but you're glad they exist.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by leela » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:41 am

I never realised that the US rate of drink related accidents was so much higher than the UK's. Reading mutha's posts is like listening to my parents' justifications back in the '60s.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:42 am

Flobster! wrote:And no, I feel about breath-test stops the same way I feel about school crossings. You don't have to stop for them very often but you're glad they exist.


Yeah, gosh, imagine if they didn't, maybe 30% of road deaths would be because of alcohol.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:45 am

leela wrote:I never realised that the US rate of drink related accidents was so much higher than the UK's.



Flobster will explain in a minute how they're totally different because less people drive in the UK

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by madmonday » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:47 am

No random breath tests in the US or booze buses....not a fan of drink driving regardless of amount it puts you of your game. ...still have the occasional nightmare about fatalities involving booze...
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:48 am

The percentage would be much higher if drink driving laws weren't strictly enforced. Why do you think otherwise?

Here, by the way, are the stats from my state, which has lots of breath-testing.

The proportion of drivers and motorcycle riders who lost their lives with a BAC greater than 0.05g/100ml has declined from 38% in 1987 to 19% in 2016.


http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/s ... statistics
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by GLimpet » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:49 am

EMG wrote:Are the Aussies upset again that we don't share their love for Big Government?

Image

That might as well be a list of "countries that like a drink but where you have to drive furthest to the pub".

Plus Vic police seem to decide that "alcohol was involved" if the driver went past a beer sign.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by leela » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:53 am

I suppose 'involving alcohol' is a bit of a woolly definition. It would be interesting to know how it was defined by the different countries reporting to the WHO.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:54 am

South Africa isn't all that large, and Germany and Russia are both bigger than UK.

Link for your Vicpol claim? See my TAC quote above.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by GLimpet » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:55 am

leela wrote:I suppose 'involving alcohol' is a bit of a woolly definition. It would be interesting to know how it was defined by the different countries reporting to the WHO.

It's just ever so slightly possible that Russia has different criteria to Australia.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:57 am

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by GLimpet » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:00 pm

Flobster! wrote:South Africa isn't all that large, and Germany and Russia are both bigger than UK.

Link for your Vicpol claim? See my TAC quote above.

Your quote is about the blood alcohol of deceased drivers and riders.

"Alcohol was involved" could mean anything.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:01 pm

They only test drivers and riders. And that would be the stat they sent to WHO.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Iolar » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:02 pm

I like the Nordic/Scandinavian system of fining people based on their earnings.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:04 pm

I didn't know they had it, but it seems very, very sensible. Is it just for traffic laws?
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:11 pm

Flobster! wrote:The percentage would be much higher if drink driving laws weren't strictly enforced. Why do you think otherwise?



If all Aussie surrendered their cars to the government the rate would be much lower.

I look forward to seeing you all do so.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by GLimpet » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:12 pm

No it's for all booze. You can't afford unless you're fucking loaded.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flobster! » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:18 pm

EMG wrote:
Flobster! wrote:The percentage would be much higher if drink driving laws weren't strictly enforced. Why do you think otherwise?



If all Aussie surrendered their cars to the government the rate would be much lower.

I look forward to seeing you all do so.


It would be, but the idea is not feasible. Or proportionate. I spend maybe 10 minutes a year doing breath tests. It's barely an inconvenience. I'd spend very much more than 10 minutes a day if I didn't have a car.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:27 pm

Stop being selfish, Flobster.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by dBrother » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:47 pm

I had two pints the other evening with pezworld, ehs, et al, and drove home, the walk back to the car took well over an hour from the last drink to where I'd parked several suburbs away.
I was a beer away from being half cut at the pub so desisted from having the 3rd, knowing me car would be stranded in Kew for the night if I did..
anyway after the hours walk, and a pizza stop along the way, I was totes fine..

Had also dodged all the potential boozebus set up points by parking across the river, and took every side street home anyhow.

But was still totes fine, used to test on the alchohol breathalizers in the mine camps at various stages of drunkenness out of curiosity, often having competitions seeing who could blow the highest numbers, so i know I'm rolling fucking drunk when I'm over the limit, wasn't that way the other night, ..3~ 4 cans over 2~3 hours never got me over the limit, 5 or more did,
I've blown zero at a police breatho 40 minutes after a 375ml can before now too..
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by rosstralia » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:50 pm

Flobster! wrote:Nothing to do with per capita. The chart shows the % of alcohol-related road deaths.

If a country had 2 roads deaths a year and both involved alcohol it would have scored 100. If it had a million road deaths and 300,000 were due to akcohol it would have scored 30.

Which country would benefit more from stronger policing of drink driving?

And no, I feel about breath-test stops the same way I feel about school crossings. You don't have to stop for them very often but you're glad they exist.


Flobby is correct. BTW Merika (10.6 per 100000) has almost twice the amount of road deaths per capita as Australia (5.4 per 100000). So the number of pisshead related fatalities per capita is about double. Looks like Yanks might benefit from stronger policing of drink driving.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:11 pm

rosstralia wrote:BTW Merika (10.6 per 100000) has almost twice the amount of road deaths per capita as Australia (5.4 per 100000). So the number of pisshead related fatalities per capita is about double.

Where did those stats come from?

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by rosstralia » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:35 pm

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by desertstorm » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:52 pm

US does look like they have fairly high amount of road death per capita comparing to many other western/developed countries. Not sure how much that is contributed to alcohol.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:52 pm

OK, thanks, but those stats don't really say anything about whether those fatalities were caused by drunk driving. The conclusion "So the number of pisshead related fatalities per capita is about double" doesn't in anyway follow from those stats. The stats that were presented earlier in the thread in a table showed that the percent of fatalities in the US and Australia that are alcohol related are about equal.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:55 pm

desertstorm wrote:US does look like they have fairly high amount of road death per capita comparing to many other western/developed countries


The first think I would look at is the comparative amount of miles driven per capita. I bet Americans drive more miles than most Europeans, for example. I bet the number of road deaths per capita is pretty low in Burkina Faso, for example, because the vast majority of people don't drive.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:00 pm

I looked up Burkina Faso in the link Rostralia provided, and I was wrong. :lol:

They have about 3 times the per capita road deaths that the US has, and about a 30 times higher rate on a "per car" basis.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by rosstralia » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Steve_in_Exile wrote:OK, thanks, but those stats don't really say anything about whether those fatalities were caused by drunk driving. The conclusion "So the number of pisshead related fatalities per capita is about double" doesn't in anyway follow from those stats. The stats that were presented earlier in the thread in a table showed that the percent of fatalities in the US and Australia that are alcohol related are about equal.


Yeh, you multiply the percentage deaths by pissheads by the total number deaths to get the number of pisshead deaths.

USA = 31% X 10.6 = 3.28 pisshead deaths per 100000
Boganistan = 30% X 5.4 = 1.62 pisshead deaths per 100000

Like I said Merika is about double. Slightly more than double actually.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:19 pm

I guess that's what passes for statistics in Australia. :lol:

The relevant comparison is the "31 percent" to the "30 percent".

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:23 pm

30% of every 100,000 Australians don't know how to do math.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:37 pm

Rosstralia, for starters, you should be using the death rate per km driven. A lot of the reason we have a higher accident death rate on a per person basis is that we drive more than you guys do. The per km stats are available on the link you provided, and it would make sense to use those stats.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by strife » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:39 pm

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by EMG » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:44 pm

strife wrote:The Sovereignty of Australia is under attack. Battlestations, Matey-os.



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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by eric84 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:09 pm

Steve_in_Exile wrote:Rosstralia, for starters, you should be using the death rate per km driven. A lot of the reason we have a higher accident death rate on a per person basis is that we drive more than you guys do. The per km stats are available on the link you provided, and it would make sense to use those stats.


The US is still 40% higher than Australia on a per km rate, alas.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by northern_goddess » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:09 pm

Not totally drunk-driving related but when I was in South Africa they had 'driving' campaigns on the radio stations. We were there for New Years Eve and every day of the new year they would tell people how many people had been killed in motor vehicle accidents so far that year. They are crazy drivers to begin with (passing on the inside (bike) lane, speeding, etc.) and the roads are filled with those VW-type vans that have 8-14 people crammed into them. This means that with one crash there could be upwards of 10 fatalities just from one vehicle. Often entire extended families were wiped out. I can't remember what the numbers were but by the end of the first week it was some sort of bizarre astronomical number of people killed. And of course we always had the radio on while we were in the car driving on highways where most of these accidents happen and so listening to these frightening statistics and hoping we wouldn't be next.

This would probably help explain why the South Africa numbers are so high. In North America we tend to have very few people in one vehicle.
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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:10 pm

rosstralia wrote:Yeh, you multiply the percentage deaths by pissheads by the total number deaths to get the number of pisshead deaths.

USA = 31% X 10.6 = 3.28 pisshead deaths per 100000
Boganistan = 30% X 5.4 = 1.62 pisshead deaths per 100000

Like I said Merika is about double. Slightly more than double actually.


I love this statistical analysis. You start off knowing the alcohol factor, which is 31 percent to 30 percent, then you factor in all the unknown factors that aren't related to alcohol, the largest of which is probably the difference in miles driven per person, and then you conclude that the overall result is entirely due to alcohol. Completely bogus.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 pm

eric84 wrote:The US is still 40% higher than Australia on a per km rate, alas.

True, but at least we've factored out the biggest cause of the difference in overall per person death rate, and we're a little closer to the truth than we were. And that 40% still isn't necessarily due to drunk driving alone. In fact it's probably not, given the 31 percent to 30 percent figures.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by shilgia » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:16 pm

There must be huge variation in the effect of alcohol on someone's body. That chart that Steve_in_Exile posted on the first page shows some of it, but I think it may be even more stark than that. Call me a churchlady but I am definitely impaired after one glass of wine. And I don't drive often to begin with, so I need all my faculties intact when I do - can't do it on autopilot. Two hours after that glass of wine I'd probably be OK driving, but right afterwards absolutely not. I can't even imagine doing what mutha does - 4 pints over 2 hours would probably have me passed out.

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Re: We all just beat around the bush about drunk driving, "h

Post by Flora » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:22 pm

I've driven drunk on two occasions - both I have very little memory of, one I only found out about afterwards, and presumably didn't make any 'conscious' decision to drive. Urgh, makes me feel sick thinking about it.

In general I drink after maybe a small glass (175ml) of wine or half a pint with a meal, but not otherwise. I can feel any more than that amount of booze, so irrespective of breathaliser result, I wouldn't choose to drive. I do however live in the city I go out in most, and cycle in all sorts of states, so long as it's not raining. If it's raining I'm in cabs in all sorts of states.

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