Pregnancy as a trap

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tortuga
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by tortuga » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:32 pm

Condoms are pretty much the only option for women who can't take hormonal contraception, regardless of the length and trust levels of the relationship.

I think I posted this before, but a few years ago I asked a gynae about sterilisation, and was told I had to be 40 to be eligible (in France). Interestingly enough, I looked into it again recently and found out that they had changed this a couple of years ago and there's no age limit any more. I'm 39 now so might be able to go for it a year earlier, heh.

I'm the one who adamantly don't want kids, but so far I've had no choice but to rely on the Mr's willingness to use condoms (has never been an issue, fwiw.)

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:44 pm

Non hormone coil? Although my completely refusal to have another one put in is the reason we're on condoms.

Two friends of mine have been sterilised under 40. One has two children, the other has none. I didn't know until recently. If I was not menopausal I'd have been done already too.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by muthafunky » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Yeah, IUD seems an option if you can't take birth control pills. Post birth is indeed a tough one, pills aren't great if you suffer any side effects since you're dealing with enough with a newborn, IUD is better for a longer time period, condoms suck. Newborns themselves are a decent form of birth control though, we had a lot less sex in the months after the little guy was born.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Klara » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:16 pm

Copper IUD has several unpleasant side effects as well. My mother had it for years, but I don't like the sound of it.

I think I'll use condoms until I get steralised or, ideally, end up in a long term relationship with someone who's had a vasectomy.


I don't like the sound of any other kind of contraception right now. Also, I found some really good condoms a few years ago and have been happy with them since.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by muthafunky » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:23 pm

It depends on the person. My wife never had any complaints about the IUD. Some women actually like being on the pill. Some crazy people don't mind condoms. And so on.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by tortuga » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:25 pm

I've tried the copper coil too. I had to have it removed after a few months, following a massive pregnancy scare, because it moved out of place.

Flora, interesting you mention menopause. The reason why I looked into sterilisation again is because I've noticed my periods are getting a bit whacky, and I can't face years of irregular periods i.e. regular pregnancy scares. The one I had last year nearly drove me round the bend.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:28 pm

Exactly the same here - pregnancy scare every month is just super (and expensive in tests!). Actually, I just do regular tests to make sure. I trust condoms about as much as I trust using nothing at all. Not from experience, I just can't believe that nothing gets past/around/out of a condom.

IUDs have side effects - mine gave me bad period pain. They are also not very nice to have put in, hence me not having another one right now. Just can't face anyone fiddling around with my bits. Urgh. Childbirth has put an end to medical stuff with the vadge thanks.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by tortuga » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:43 pm

muthafunky wrote:Some women actually like being on the pill.


I liked being on the pill in my early twenties too. But tolerance to hormonal stuff also changes with age... late 30s/40s is a different ball game. It's peak abortion age apparently, second only to (or on a par with) the teenage years.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by veronica_inheels » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:47 pm

I am so glad mine had a vasectomy. I met him when I as 29 so still very fertile age.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Klara » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:02 pm

tortuga wrote:
muthafunky wrote:Some women actually like being on the pill.


I liked being on the pill in my early twenties too. But tolerance to hormonal stuff also changes with age... late 30s/40s is a different ball game. It's peak abortion age apparently, second only to (or on a par with) the teenage years.

I liked it too. I was on the pill between 20 and 29 and loved it. Then I got migranes and they got worse and worse until I got off the pill in order to get pregnant.
I used the nuva ring a couple of years ago, but never for long enough to feel side effects. You're not supposed to use hormonal contraceptives if you've had migranes anyway.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by bundes » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:07 am

tortuga wrote:
muthafunky wrote:Some women actually like being on the pill.


I liked being on the pill in my early twenties too. But tolerance to hormonal stuff also changes with age... late 30s/40s is a different ball game. It's peak abortion age apparently, second only to (or on a par with) the teenage years.


I like being on the pill.
Know when I'll get my period, can use the pill to skip them if I want.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by rezuar » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:31 am

I loved being on the pill, but sadly, I can't use hormonal contraception anymore.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Andrea1 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:33 am

tortuga wrote:
muthafunky wrote:Some women actually like being on the pill.


I liked being on the pill in my early twenties too. But tolerance to hormonal stuff also changes with age... late 30s/40s is a different ball game. It's peak abortion age apparently, second only to (or on a par with) the teenage years.


Any man, who is planning on having sex with a woman, and absolutely doesn't want to father a child with her, should definitely have the 'what if' conversation, find out her views on abortion. And, if he's on the same page, (abort), cross his fingers that, if *she/they get pregnant, she follows it through.

*Of course, it'll be her decision ultimately, AND she might have tricked him. Or changed her mind, or isn't able to do it.

Course, adopting Cowtown's approach is the most in line with his desired outcome, though again, not fool-proof. Hence the abortion discussion.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Barbarella » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:34 am

SeamusMcCool wrote:That's true Leela and I've known a couple of guys (including one public figure) who talked openly about always wearing a condom even after marriage because they didn't want kids.

I'd also like to point out that it's unfair (it seems to be the same few) for posters to attack Babs for sharing these human interest stories. The most common accusation is she's nosy or not minding her own business but my general impression is that of observer in real life and reporter on here. It's provided us 5 pages of entertaining discussion and that is the norm when she shares some drama she's been privy too or caught up in. The kind of stuff that makes this place fun and interesting as it is a discussion board.

Nice to see wildflower back again.


If asking someone "hows things?" results in them spilling their guts to me I guess you could call that being nosy. If you're nuts.

So thank you Seamus. I guess I'm not even an observer, more a confidante. Guess they all love my sage advice from my like, GIGANTIC brain n stuff.

As for the mentality of expecting a woman to take care of all contraception, be it a one night stand/fling or LTR that is also nuts. If my pill didnt work and I ended up preggers, I'd hand the rugrat straight over to daddy and do a runner, see how he likes it. Unless it was exceptionally cute. Then I might come back eventually.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Barbarella » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:36 am

Also, are we the only animals on the planet that are fertile 24/7 365?

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Klara » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:43 am

Well personally, I'm fertile one day a month, which means I can get pregnant about 5, maybe 6 days a month.

But unlike puppies, babies are almost never cute. Humams become cute later.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Barbarella » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:54 am

Babies are cute after a coupla weeks come ON!! Well, some. The fat little chubsters are cutest.

Actually another neighbour was the ugliest baby I'd ever seen. Scrawny, blue white pale everywhere cept for that purple scrinched up face with a light bulb shaped veiny head. Bleeuuurrghhhh..........

25 years on she's still a dog fyi.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Troll_Handle » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:59 am

Even ugly babies can be cute, they smell good and they do good cuddles. Puppies have the edge on looks though.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Barbarella » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:07 pm

Oh I also know a fair few gals who've got preggers to trap guys. Or were in relationships/marriages where the guy wanted to wait a few years but they didnt so hey presto! Accident!

I think its kinda sad really cos the make or break ratio is about 50:50. And its all down to resentment. On both sides.

I also have a friend, she's with him 11 years, married 9, she waited years and years to get preggers cos she doubted he'd be any use. He's a nice guy but a bit dim and useless tbh. Their daughter is 2 and it sounds like she's tearing them apart. She's talking divorce. I know she'll never do it but the fact she'd even mouth the words is enough. She's one of those "life is fabulous and I'm perfect and never make mistakes" types.

The child is very sickly. She's been sick a year, terrible chesty coughs probably due to panicky mother lashing antibiotics into her far too early so her immune system never had a chance to develop. Its quite sad really, I think if she knew then what she knows now she wouldnt have gotten pregnant.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by jessica_fletcher » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:21 pm

You know I reckon loads of people think the same way.

Being a parent isn't the be all and end all.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Barbarella » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:42 pm

Yup, I'm mostly put right off tbh. Am gonna have another niece or nephew to spoil rotten then hand back this year. That'll do pig, that'll do.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:30 pm

Being a parent has been far more fulfilling and enjoyable than I thought it would be and I went into it with high expectations.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:11 pm

I genuinely think it comes down to whether your child allows you to sleep enough. If it doesn't, your relationship is potentially fucked. There is a reason that sleep deprivation is used as torture. Also, pregnancy changes the woman... to differing degrees, obviously, but I feel quite different to before I had her. My personality has changed.. possibly in to something that boyfriend wouldn't have been with had it been like this all along. I don't know that for sure, just wondering.

We definitely had massive wobbles when she was 4-6 months old, and again last summer... all due to lack of sleep. At the moment she's lush though, super good value. Having said that I know that boyfriend is probably 60/40 about being happy she's around at all.

I wonder if it would have been different if I hadn't had to go back to work, or if he hadn't had to go to work. Someone at home all the time would have meant that person being able to get by on less sleep (not that that's a good option either, but it's better than the stress of getting to work/doing a job reasonably with no sleep). Dunno...

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by leela » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:23 pm

I honestly don't know how some of my colleagues with babies/toddlers get through the day. I was so lucky that we were able to (barely) manage for me not to work when ours were very small. I did supply when desperate (we had no disposable income, so if the car needed repairs or anything, we had to find some cash quick), but I know I wouldn't have had the energy or the commitment to do both my full time job and parenting well. Let alone having time for my partner.

Times have changed, and your generation and my kids often don't/won't have that choice. And I'm sure it potentially makes parenting and relationships difficult.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Klara » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:29 pm

Dunno. I didn't sleep much for a few years, but I don't even remember what it was like anymore. I do remember coming home from work and not being able to stay awake to play with my son. That was not fun at all.


Parenting is so much more rewarding when kids get a bit bigger, though. Of course it was fun when all we did was play and cuddle, but I never enjoyed it as much as I have the last few years. It helps that I have a pretty easy-going son, of course.


But no, I don't think everyone should have kids. I always knew I'd have some (two of them, but that didn't work out), but I do understand that some people never want to become parents.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:33 pm

I have no idea how I did some of last year - this time last year was spectacularly bad in terms of the sleep being sort of OK, but because it still wasn't 'enough', we just kept getting ill over and over again. Because you're so knackered, you start living on coffee and sugar and bread... so then you put on weight, you have more chance of getting more ill too - vicious circle. On top of that you're not sleeping in the same room just to try and work it out so that one person gets some sleep a night/for part of the night, so you miss the couple stuff (not just shagging), so all you feel like you're doing is baby wrangling or talking about baby wrangling.

One of my male colleagues has a 4.5 month old at the moment, which was definitely the worst baby age for us - it's interesting seeing it from the male 'going to work' perspective. He's pretty much broken.

I totally get why people only do it once!! No coincidence that the only one of my baby friends who is having a second already, is the one who had a 'sleeper' from the beginning.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:35 pm

Parenting is so much more rewarding when kids get a bit bigger


I think that even now - being able to hold a conversation and to at least make an attempt that might work, to reason with them. So much more fun. I'm trying not to wish the time away, but can't wait until she's 4 or 5 and we can actually 'do' things again, but with her. Some walking, some travelling, some skiing etc.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:37 pm

Regards the OP though, I have NO idea why you'd choose to do babies with someone who isn't completely in to it (or at least thinks they are, which was boyfriend's state of mind - he thought he'd love it, and was surprised to find he doesn't). I can't even imagine doing childbirth with someone in the room who isn't being positive and helpful or possibly making decisions about your health on your behalf when you just wanted their sperm. These relationships you read about where they've had a baby to 'save' their relationship... HAHAHAHAHA...

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by eric84 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:38 pm

Flora wrote:
Parenting is so much more rewarding when kids get a bit bigger


I think that even now - being able to hold a conversation and to at least make an attempt that might work, to reason with them. So much more fun. I'm trying not to wish the time away, but can't wait until she's 4 or 5 and we can actually 'do' things again, but with her. Some walking, some travelling, some skiing etc.


...and then turn into teenagers.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by leela » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:51 pm

boyfriend's state of mind - he thought he'd love it, and was surprised to find he doesn't).

That must be tough for both of you.

It also demonstrates that though it's important to talk about kids at the beginning of committing to a relationship, our feelings at that point might not be how they end up. I thought I wasn't bothered about having kids at all. But suddenly changed my mind. Fortunately so did he - and we both loved parenthood. But our closest friends always wanted them, and ended up the least enthusiastic parents I know.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by rezuar » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:02 pm

I was pretty lucky that both my girls wete good sleepets once we got past the bumpy first six weeks.
Can't imagine how awful it must be not get enough sleep AND having to go to work in the morning.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by jessica_fletcher » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:04 pm

I think kids hit about 7/8, they become independent (in terms of being able to 'be' without parents physically and mentally), pre teen hits (attitude. Thought process and forming) and that's when most parents exhale/give up. You don't need necessarily 2 parents and it's the start of looking at the relationship without your partner.

I wonder what the average age of children when parents split up?
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:16 pm

The sleep thing highly depends on the luck of the draw. Our son has been sleeping 12 hours a night since he was a few months old and takes two naps every day. I was really worried about the sleep thing so this has been the most welcome surprise. Still, the next one might be a terrible sleeper.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by eric84 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:18 pm

Yup, first born was a terrible sleeper and no. 2 was a great sleeper though dropped the afternoon nap faster due to older brother.

Overall, I'd rather have it in that order than the other way around.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Klara » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:24 pm

My kid had/has atopic skin, so he used to woke up all the time because of the itching. Poor kid. He was a surprisingly cheerful kid, considering he never got a lot of sleep.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:57 pm

I'd rather have it in that order than the other way around.


Yep. But if it hadn't been for my age getting in the way, we'd still have not had another one - couldn't risk having another 2 years like that, not just for our relationship, but for our mental health frankly!

Hearing about babies who slept makes me hope hope HOPE that they are hard work teenagers. Sorry!! Only feel slightly bad for thinking like that.

Leela - yeah, it's an odd one. I think he's getting over it a bit now though - like I say, she's fun at the moment. Hasn't helped that she's been a real mummy's girl up to now. He was holding out for the alleged magic 18 month mark when girls start to be less obsessed with mums and get in to their dads, but it didn't really work. She loves spending time with him in the day, and since I went back to work we've split childcare 50/50 (including part time working for both of us, so she gets whole days with him on her her own), but if anything goes wrong, I'm just about the only one who can fix it. She'll choose my mum or his mum over him if I'm not there. Must be hard for him really. I wonder as well though how much she could 'feel' the annoyance from him at various stages. They are so fricken perceptive on tone of voice, muscle tension and everything. As he's got more relaxed around her, she's got more relaxed around him. I however have found that I'm much more relaxed as a parent than I am in any other part of my life.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:02 pm

The guy I sit next to at work has a 6 month old that still gets up 10 times a night. I'm not sure I could function during the day going through that, even splitting duties equally.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:06 pm

Oh hell yes. Mine has slept through since 2nd November. She was 2 in October, so that's been 2 years of crap. Last week she had a 'normal' night like she used to (was changing rooms at nursery, so a bit stressed). Between us we got up 18 times, and I had an hour between 3.30 and 4.30 where my sleep monitor put in a hour's gap, so not just 'awake' but 'two separate chunks of 'sleep''.

On 31st October we got her a double bed.... we've not looked back. Should have done it when she was 18 months old, might have saved us a lot of sleep.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:08 pm

Quite a lot of days I came to work on less than 2 hours sleep. Usually with tonsillitis. Was bloody brutal...

Anyway, I've been at work all day today writing my essay. Need to go home and see the wee beast before bedtime.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by jessica_fletcher » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:31 pm

I just couldnt do it, I just couldn't. 2 hours?!?! No. I feel sick when I've not slept 8/9 hours. Oh no. No.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by dragon » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:48 pm

You can, though. Although I feel like I couldn't do it now. Anyway, kid is eight and not terribly independent. But I did just say days ago that all those years I wanted a baby desperately, I had no idea really how much fun an eight yeR old could be.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:01 pm

I couldn't do that either. That sounds very unusual though, 18 times waking up at age 2? An average, babies sleep through the night by 6 months.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:15 pm

That's not what I've heard. 80% of babies in the UK don't sleep through the night regularly until they are 18 months old - that's what I've been told by multiple health care professionals. It's really hard to get accurate data on, as people don't tell the truth/can't really remember. Anecdotally, the babies I know about support that information - there is only one out of all the babies I know that slept through from an early age. Most have done the odd night or two by 6 months, but after that the teeth kick in in earnest, and you've got no idea how that's going to affect them. Most of my friends' babies have been pretty crap sleepers until they were between 18 months and 2 years, a couple of them are still crap now at 2 and a half. We're also pretty old as a collective - mostly in our late 30s/early 40s. I think it would be much easier to tolerate as a 25 year old.

A relative of mine did cry it out sleep training, which 'worked'. Who knows how that shit is going to affect children long term though. Maybe the rise in emotional problems with primary school children is as a result of cry-it-out 'sleep training'. I don't agree with it.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by eric84 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:35 pm

Yeah, sleeping through the night at 6 months as an average? Doesn't sound right.
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:35 pm

Nearly all babies are able to sleep through the night by 6 months, but when they do is very different depending on the child.

Some infants as young as 3 months old can snooze for six to eight hours at a stretch. Others won't sleep this long until they're 12 months old. But most babies (70 percent) do sleep through the night by the time they hit 9 months, according to the National Sleep Foundation.

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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by jessica_fletcher » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:36 pm

Doubt it, my mum did it and she's the generation where leaving a crying baby in the pram at the of the garden was encouraged. And her parents did it to her and so and so on. Over attending to your child's every need is a more recently thing surely?
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Flora » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:41 pm

I remembered something else - what is considered 'through the night' is 6 hours in this country. I consider 'through the night' to be 7.30 - 7.30. She does it now, but had to get better at eating enough first. Was waking for milk until about 19 months.

Generation snowflake Jess? I dunno, just another random thing I read as part of this essay research.

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veronica_inheels
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by veronica_inheels » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:46 pm

Flora wrote:A relative of mine did cry it out sleep training, which 'worked'. Who knows how that shit is going to affect children long term though. Maybe the rise in emotional problems with primary school children is as a result of cry-it-out 'sleep training'. I don't agree with it.


flora thats such bullshit. if anything the rise of emotional needy school age kids could be linked to parents behaving as slaves.

i did the sleep training. when she was about 6 weeks old. in retrospect it was early but i didnt know any better. it took few days. cry it out until you sleep. it sounds cruel doesnt it? however i timed it. it was 45-60 seconds of crying. and i only had to wake her up for feedings every 3-4 hours or so. i was still sleep deprived as i need uninterrupted 8 hours. so i guess it took 6 months till she stopped feeding at night?
You only get one turn on this merry-go-round of life. Chase your happiness. -Nines

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veronica_inheels
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by veronica_inheels » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:47 pm

another thing i did when she cried is to go and put my hand on her chest, but not take her out of the crib. that calmed her down too.
You only get one turn on this merry-go-round of life. Chase your happiness. -Nines

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Klara
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Re: Pregnancy as a trap

Post by Klara » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:47 pm

I don't know if making your baby feel better counts as over attending his every need. It feels totally against your instinct to let your kid cry it out. Some people do it anyway, but I'd never do it myself.

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