Murders in Saint Louis

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gnomad
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Murders in Saint Louis

Post by gnomad » Thu May 17, 2018 4:15 am

We have a population of 308,000 and have had 61 murders so far this year. We're slightly ahead of last year's count on this date. This seems so outrageously high to me. How does it compare to your city? Oh, but please don't let this fact deter you from visiting - chances are you'll make it out alive.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by BulletPark » Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 am

In New York City everyone's a little worried about this chap who boasted he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and still get into the White House, particularly since he got into the White House.

As for the place upstate...murdered, hell. They died of boredom.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Flobster! » Thu May 17, 2018 4:35 am

Assuming you end the year with about 125 murders, that means you have a murder rate of about 40 per 100k.

The US murder rate is about 5. So yes, it's high. It's about the same as New Orleans and a number of other cities, all in the Americas.

However, according to one stat I've unscientifically found, your murder rate has dropped sharply from a recent peak of 60. (-New Orleans has dropped even further, from 100.)
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Scrubb » Thu May 17, 2018 4:43 am

My city is about 250,000. (The "greater metro" area has 295,000.) We've had 3 murders this year.

My province has the highest crime rate in the country. Manitoba has a higher murder rate than us, though. But we're the second highest murder rate.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by The Mallard Missie » Thu May 17, 2018 6:35 am

In London we are having about one or two a day.
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Godjira
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Godjira » Thu May 17, 2018 8:36 am

I think there are fewer than 1,000 murders per year in Japan. In fact, there were fewer than 1,000,000 crimes in total reported last year.

Still, some guy was found with a freezer full of heads not long ago.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by fishface » Thu May 17, 2018 8:53 am

Buggered if I can find recent figures but the last year I can find for NZ was 2014. The population was around 4500000 and the murders were 45 and manslaughter 19.

I am actually surprised it was so low. I figured more people would be killed. That's a weird thing to be surprised about, I suppose.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Flobster! » Thu May 17, 2018 9:01 am

Yeah, the problem with these sort of stats is whether or not they mean just murder or both murder and manslaughter. And also whether they're taking the initial police report of what it is, or waiting oir the coroner' report, waiting for the public prosecutor's decision on laying charges, or even the outcome of any trial.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by twodogs » Thu May 17, 2018 1:28 pm

La Linea has been shut out of the major markets and is concentrating on secondary markets like St Louis. Unless they start kidnapping for ransom like they did in Juarez they aren't a threat to the average citizen.

"The Juárez cartel, which has shrunk since its war with the Sinaloa cartel, still operates in its traditional territory in Chihuahua state, New Mexico and West Texas.

The Juárez cartel, also known as La Linea, is mainly involved in marijuana and cocaine trafficking though it has expanded to heroin and methamphetamine, the DEA reported.

The DEA map shows the Juárez cartel has a presence in Las Cruces, Albuquerque, Midland, Alpine, Lubbock, St. Louis and Kansas City, Mo."
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Lost Soul » Thu May 17, 2018 1:33 pm

El Paso has always been one of the safest cities, even at the height of the Juarez murders.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Flobster! » Thu May 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Well, no threat to average citizens is important, but having 8 times the national average of murders in your city is not good even if it doesn't directly impinge on you.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by twodogs » Thu May 17, 2018 1:51 pm

Yeah there is nothing to be gained by killing innocents and La Linea is known for killing users who commit a violent crime.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by twodogs » Thu May 17, 2018 1:58 pm

Flobster! wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:35 pm
Well, no threat to average citizens is important, but having 8 times the national average of murders in your city is not good even if it doesn't directly impinge on you.
Depends on how you look at it. La Linea has eliminated more drug dealers and violent criminals than the criminal justice system in most cities and at little to no cost to the public. The numbers will come down once the local dealers are gone.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by EMG » Thu May 17, 2018 2:06 pm

I don't think anyone actually knows for Manila. They don't keep count like they do in the US.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by eric84 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:33 pm

Scrubb wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:43 am
My city is about 250,000. (The "greater metro" area has 295,000.) We've had 3 murders this year.

My province has the highest crime rate in the country. Manitoba has a higher murder rate than us, though. But we're the second highest murder rate.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by GLimpet » Thu May 17, 2018 2:44 pm


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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Flobster! » Thu May 17, 2018 3:44 pm

twodogs wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:58 pm
Flobster! wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:35 pm
Well, no threat to average citizens is important, but having 8 times the national average of murders in your city is not good even if it doesn't directly impinge on you.
Depends on how you look at it. La Linea has eliminated more drug dealers and violent criminals than the criminal justice system in most cities and at little to no cost to the public. The numbers will come down once the local dealers are gone.
If you want the rule of law to be replaced by extra-judicial killings, sure. But it's no way to run a country.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by EMG » Thu May 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Extra judicial killings are all the rage here these days.

But no one knows how many there have been. Estimates range between 4000 and 20,000. Depends who you ask.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Thu May 17, 2018 3:55 pm

gnomad wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:15 am
please don't let this fact deter you from visiting - chances are you'll make it out alive.
I had dinner with a poster in St Charles.

That's close enough.

I saw St Louis from my taxi.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Homerj » Thu May 17, 2018 4:05 pm

Toronto usually has about 50...pop 2.2M
The GTA say has about 70-80...pop around 7.0M
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Shavenhead » Thu May 17, 2018 4:09 pm

According to last year's figures St Louis was the City in Amerikkka where one is most likely to be murdered. I fact, it's just outside the top ten globally:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... urder_rate

Amerikkka (USA) and South Africa are the only countries outside the Latin America/Caribbean region with cities in the top 50 murder capitals. Joburg, has in recent years improved to the extent that it's now dropped of the top 50 list. in Joburg In 2001 you were more likely to be murdered than killed in a car accident - so that's a relief.

Still pretty nasty though, and 2018 has started off really badly when it comes to fear & loathing in Joburg. The most worrying phenomenon these days in greater Joburg is the frequency of cash in transit heists usually resulting in a crazy highway shootout/car chase involving the cops with bullets flying and cars smashing into each other. Whenever I see one of those vehicles I feel an overwhelming urge to get away from it.

This afternoon's heist on the East Rand of Joburg was a big one.. The bandits attacked in platoon strength in 4 cars with AK's and limpet mines, and blew up two cash in transit vehicles, and then the bullets started flying. Only 8 people were injured, and fortunately so far no word of any fatalities. I guess if there had been people caught in the crossfire that would have fitted with Flobster's definition of manslaughter.

The video's a must see - fucking mental!

http://ewn.co.za/2018/05/17/watch-cash- ... n-boksburg
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Flobster! » Thu May 17, 2018 4:16 pm

No, if anyone is killed during the committing of a crime, accidentally or not, it's murder. Even if you didn't pull the trigger.

(In most common law systems, of which I assume South Africa is one.)
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by ASQ » Thu May 17, 2018 4:22 pm

we get about 2 murders a year (population 250k) usually domestic. maybe around 10-20 more DUI deaths which for some reason aren't counted as murder.

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Shavenhead » Thu May 17, 2018 4:26 pm

Total murders in SA during the 2016/17 year - 19 016.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by twodogs » Thu May 17, 2018 4:33 pm

Flobster! wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:44 pm
If you want the rule of law to be replaced by extra-judicial killings, sure. But it's no way to run a country.
Agreed but our current judicial system isn't working.

So if you want efficiency follow the Singaporean model and if not learn to accept that the streets are the domain of the criminals and that our judicial system is just another social program.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Flobster! » Thu May 17, 2018 4:35 pm

How is it specifically a problem with the judicial system? You already jail far more people than anywhere else.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by twodogs » Thu May 17, 2018 4:46 pm

Flobster! wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:35 pm
How is it specifically a problem with the judicial system? You already jail far more people than anywhere else.
You may be onto something, global warming might be the culprit. Murder was practically non existent during the last ice age.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Flobster! » Thu May 17, 2018 4:48 pm

Seriously, how is it because of the judicial system?
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by ASQ » Thu May 17, 2018 8:12 pm

If you gave life sentences for any crime committed by a black person, murder rates would be smaller

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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by twodogs » Thu May 17, 2018 9:35 pm

If you execute any person convicted of a capital crime murder rates would be smaller.

It works in Singapore and China.
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Re: Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Usher73 » Fri May 18, 2018 9:50 am

I moved to Very Small Town, East Texas. No one kills anyone here.

Next town over, they kill each other over drugs.

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Murders in Saint Louis

Post by Godjira » Fri May 18, 2018 10:09 am

In Japan, they can hold you a month without charge. I think it’s a big deterrent to crime, but you need to have something to lose for that to work.
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