What are some positives?

Berning Trumpeters vs The Establishment

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avalon_
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What are some positives?

Post by avalon_ » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:26 pm

As president elect, I've only seen real juvenile, misinformed, and inciteful tweets coming from Trump. The clips I've seen of his speeches have been devisive and dishonest. His picks for cabinet scare the pants off me and with all the conflicts of interests, he seems quite corrupt and unethical.

Please tell me some of the good things he's done or said. There has to be something.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by 5waldos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:31 pm

The financial markets are happy and everyone's retirement accounts are up. This is a positive.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Ped_Yai » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:32 pm

As Lincoln said about Grant,

"He fights".


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Re: What are some positives?

Post by dragon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:33 pm

my co-worker told me that one of his appointee picks sounded okay. but then he couldn't remember which one.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by VinnyD » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:49 pm

The long New York Times piece about Trump and women chronicled a lot of bad stuff, or stuff that seemed bad before that video came out, but it also said that in the seventies he was hiring women to be project managers when nobody else in construction in NY was doing that.

That's all I've got.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by VinnyD » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:50 pm

Grant's fights weren't staged, Ped Yai.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by snowgirl » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:53 pm

You are so adorably optimistic.

There's nothing.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:01 pm

Good for comedians? That's about what I've got.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Lost Soul » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:06 pm

avalon_ wrote:As president elect, I've only seen real juvenile, misinformed, and inciteful tweets coming from Trump. The clips I've seen of his speeches have been devisive and dishonest. His picks for cabinet scare the pants off me and with all the conflicts of interests, he seems quite corrupt and unethical.

Please tell me some of the good things he's done or said. There has to be something.

He's not a fan of the neocon world, or USA global cop.

He's going to lower your taxes.

He's going to deport 800,000 criminal aliens.

He's not Hillary!
IMPRISON BUSH!

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by eric84 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:11 pm

Watching Republican congressmen squirm will be entertaining. All the reasons why he won't do what he said he would will no doubt be jaw droppingly funny.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by VinnyD » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:15 pm

He is going to lower taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget. And he will deport 800,000 criminal aliens, even if there are only 40,000 aliens who have committed crimes. He is pretty great.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:16 pm

Hmm, Lost Soul has a point on the opposition to the Neocons. We'll see if that translates into actual policy. This was my biggest disappointment with the Obama administration and my biggest problem with Hillary - the degree of poorly justified interventionism.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Annotated » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:19 pm

It doesn't matter what anyone says. You will take it as a negative.

You've already been brainwashed.
Stay Woke

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Lost Soul » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:22 pm

Annotated wrote:It doesn't matter what anyone says. You will take it as a negative.

You've already been brainwashed.

She's trying to understand her neighbors in suburban San Diego. Which is more than cuch can cogitate.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Lavite » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:37 pm

avalon_ wrote: Please tell me some of the good things he's done or said. There has to be something.


He won the election preventing Satan's Favorite Witch from becoming President. That is plenty enough for me at the present.

Once he is in office and starts to makes changes, I am sure I will add to this list.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by eric84 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:43 pm

nycfellow wrote:Hmm, Lost Soul has a point on the opposition to the Neocons. We'll see if that translates into actual policy. This was my biggest disappointment with the Obama administration and my biggest problem with Hillary - the degree of poorly justified interventionism.


I actually thought their interventions were somewhat more principled and thought out.....of course, they didn't all go terribly well but ISIS is virtually destroyed at this point so Trump will benefit from that.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by polardude1 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:44 pm

Lavite, Annotated, Jim and Max are happy that Richard Spenser now has a voice

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... pi/508379/

“Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!”

That’s how Richard B. Spencer saluted more than 200 attendees on Saturday, gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C., for the annual conference of the National Policy Institute, which describes itself as “an independent organization dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world.”

Spencer has popularized the term “alt-right” to describe the movement he leads. Spencer has said his dream is “a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans,” and has called for “peaceful ethnic cleansing.”

For most of the day, a parade of speakers discussed their ideology in relatively anodyne terms, putting a presentable face on their agenda. But after dinner, when most journalists had already departed, Spencer rose and delivered a speech to his followers dripping with anti-Semitism, and leaving no doubt as to what he actually seeks. He referred to the mainstream media as “Lügenpresse,” a term he said he was borrowing from “the original German”; the Nazis used the word to attack their critics in the press.

“America was until this past generation a white country designed for ourselves and our posterity,” Spencer said. “It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us.”

The audience offered cheers, applause, and enthusiastic Nazi salutes.

Here is the video, excerpted from an Atlantic documentary profile of Spencer that will premiere in December 2016.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:45 pm

I'm actually convinced that Hillary as SoS acted much more hawkishly than she would have if she weren't planning on running for Prez. Of course, she expected to be running against a normal Republican candidate.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by eric84 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:46 pm

Where specifically? Libya? Where else?
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by avalon_ » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:22 pm

Ok, so I've got:
-stock market is strong. I'm not sure if that can be attributed to his doing, but it's positive.

-Not supporting neocons, although I haven't heard that. He met with Cheney recently (but he's met with loads of people). He doesn't want to be a world cop, but what he says is getting us in trouble with the world.

-deporting criminals who are here illegally. I hope his plan is reasonable and ethically and well thought out

As far as taxes go, I don't need my taxes lowered. I especially don't want them lowered if it's going to harm others are create debt.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by dragon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:24 pm

maybe more people will come visit us here in mexico? you're invited, avalon...
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by avalon_ » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:26 pm

Thank you, Dragon! That would be so fun.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by 2wilzgood » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:31 pm

Senator, I knew Andrew Johnson, and Donald Trump is no Andrew Johnson.

When Jimmy Carter took office there was rending of garments and gnashing of teeth. Barbecues? On the South Lawn? Horror!

When Reagan was elected Washington erupted. Caterers threw enormous parties gratis, they knew the Party had returned. No more Billy Beer, it was Champagne Days.

The only positive I've got.. Trump may be Reaganesque. If we're lucky. Otherwise, I got nothing.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Maxwell » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:12 pm

Mike Pence is fantastic and hopefully will take over as President after 8 years.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by ASQ » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:22 pm

He's going to make the streets of Chicago safe again. Maybe that's where the criminal deportation number comes from - he's planning to deport all gang bangers whether they were born here or not. Maybe to Siberia.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Logg » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:55 pm

He said he was just kidding about appointing a special prosecutor to lock Hillary up. And he said Obama was a good guy.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by 5waldos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:12 pm

2wilzgood wrote:Senator, I knew Andrew Johnson, and Donald Trump is no Andrew Johnson.

When Jimmy Carter took office there was rending of garments and gnashing of teeth. Barbecues? On the South Lawn? Horror!

When Reagan was elected Washington erupted. Caterers threw enormous parties gratis, they knew the Party had returned. No more Billy Beer, it was Champagne Days.

The only positive I've got.. Trump may be Reaganesque. If we're lucky. Otherwise, I got nothing.

He doesn't drink and only serves Trump wines. So not sure it will be champagne days. And suspect that things will be catered by the kitchen of his hotel.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Shavenhead » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:14 pm

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just kick back and enjoy the show.

If it results in Armageddon, well at least you'll be one of the chosen few who witnessed the most important event in history.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Shavenhead » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:16 pm

5waldos wrote:
2wilzgood wrote:Senator, I knew Andrew Johnson, and Donald Trump is no Andrew Johnson.

When Jimmy Carter took office there was rending of garments and gnashing of teeth. Barbecues? On the South Lawn? Horror!

When Reagan was elected Washington erupted. Caterers threw enormous parties gratis, they knew the Party had returned. No more Billy Beer, it was Champagne Days.

The only positive I've got.. Trump may be Reaganesque. If we're lucky. Otherwise, I got nothing.

He doesn't drink and only serves Trump wines. So not sure it will be champagne days. And suspect that things will be catered by the kitchen of his hotel.


The fact that he doesn't drink is my biggest concern about him.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Ignominy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:22 pm

Snotnosed backpackers named Jens and Lotte can be even more righteous.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Kilombo » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:44 pm

Let's see how the stock markets perform in 2018 or at the end of 2017
Prost!

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by 2wilzgood » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:30 pm

Ignominy wrote:Snotnosed backpackers named Jens and Lotte can be even more righteous.


That?
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by muthafunky » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:30 pm

I think I saw a chart where my taxes would go up under Trump.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by section8 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:35 pm

I think taxes will go up for income between $50-$125k, but should go down for income over that.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:35 pm

Don't worry, his tax plan is barely thought out. Paul Ryan will design something and he will sign it. Who knows what it will look like? Apart from the fact that it's guaranteed to have a substantial cut for the top brackets. It would be fantastic if they thought seriously about corporate tax reform, since nothing decent has been done since '86, but I'm betting we won's see that.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Maxwell » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:41 pm

nycfellow wrote:Don't worry, his tax plan is barely thought out. Paul Ryan will design something and he will sign it. Who knows what it will look like? Apart from the fact that it's guaranteed to have a substantial cut for the top brackets. It would be fantastic if they thought seriously about corporate tax reform, since nothing decent has been done since '86, but I'm betting we won's see that.

What kind of corporate tax reform would you like to see? I'd like it cut in half.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by 2wilzgood » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:47 pm

Corporate tax cut in half?

Good-bye, one per cent. Hello, one one hundredth of one per cent, you utter moron.

Maxwell? Right, got it. Nevermind.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:49 pm

The rate isn't the problem per se. It's that it's a high nominal rate, with a million ways to not pay that rate. Most large corporations pay nothing anywhere close to the nominal rate; some like GE and Apple pay almost nothing. Because of the complexity of the system, it benefits large corporations, who can afford a huge tax department relative to smaller companies. Also, firms spend huge amounts of C-suite attention and other sorts of efforts on tax avoidance. A good tax bill could probably bring the nominal rate down by nearly half (probably not quite) without altering total revenue if they ripped out most of the loopholes. The problem is Congress can't resist building breaks for particular companies or sectors and they just build up and the system gets more complex and loophole ridden. '86 was the last clean up, so we've got 30 years of Congress doing stupid things to the tax system to clear out.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:52 pm

Oh, and dividend payments should be deductible - the current system encourages corporations to over leverage.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Maxwell » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:54 pm

nycfellow wrote:The rate isn't the problem per se. It's that it's a high nominal rate, with a million ways to not pay that rate. Most large corporations pay nothing anywhere close to the nominal rate; some like GE and Apple pay almost nothing. Because of the complexity of the system, it benefits large corporations, who can afford a huge tax department relative to smaller companies. Also, firms spend huge amounts of C-suite attention and other sorts of efforts on tax avoidance. A good tax bill could probably bring the nominal rate down by nearly half (probably not quite) without altering total revenue if they ripped out most of the loopholes. The problem is Congress can't resist building breaks for particular companies or sectors and they just build up and the system gets more complex and loophole ridden. '86 was the last clean up, so we've got 30 years of Congress doing stupid things to the tax system to clear out.

We'll see if congress simplifies things like Trump wants.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:55 pm

I would do away with corporate taxes all together. Can't get much simpler than that.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:59 pm

I would do away with corporate taxes all together.

There's an argument for that. But I don't find it compelling because of the increasing ability of the wealthy to exploit overseas tax shelters. A simplified corporate tax at least give you a a shot getting at some of that money before it ends up in the Caymans.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by FUUZ » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:06 am

amusement at his foolish statements. That is a slight positive, as we wait for the H-bombs and nerve gas
and germ warfare and terrorism.
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Higgs Bossom » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:17 am

nycfellow wrote:
I would do away with corporate taxes all together.

There's an argument for that. But I don't find it compelling because of the increasing ability of the wealthy to exploit overseas tax shelters. A simplified corporate tax at least give you a a shot getting at some of that money before it ends up in the Caymans.


Fund government with consumption and property taxes.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:21 am

5waldos wrote:The financial markets are happy and everyone's retirement accounts are up. This is a positive.


What are the underlying fundamentals? Let's wait and compare performance under Trump vs. under Obama.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by 2wilzgood » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:22 am

Higgs Bossom wrote:
nycfellow wrote:
I would do away with corporate taxes all together.

There's an argument for that. But I don't find it compelling because of the increasing ability of the wealthy to exploit overseas tax shelters. A simplified corporate tax at least give you a a shot getting at some of that money before it ends up in the Caymans.


Fund government with consumption and property taxes.


How much do the Bundy clan pay?
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by nycfellow » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:23 am

Fund government with consumption and property taxes.

Yeah, well, you can't do progressive taxation with consumption taxes. Some people think that's a good thing, but I'm not one of them.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Godjira » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:47 am

Governments need corporate taxes to get companies to do things it wants. It's a kind of reverse bribery and is an important tool for government hegemony. How else would they have been able to get Carrier to keep jobs in the US without tax incentives?
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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Maxwell » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:13 am

2wilzgood: How much do the Bundy clan pay?

How much has the Clinton Foundation received from muslim sheiks for political favors? Ass.
Last edited by Maxwell on Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What are some positives?

Post by Godjira » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:15 am

Maxwell wrote:How much has the Clinton Foundation received from muslim sheiks for political favors? Ass.


$0
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