Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by DCComic » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:55 pm

Thanks.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by shunter » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:47 pm

Over 2 million votes! That is a lot. Crazy system, crazy president.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:18 pm

Update.

1. 2008- Barack Obama- 69,499
2. 2012- Barack Obama- 65,916
3. 2016- Hillary Clinton- 64,227
4. 2016- Donald Trump- 62, 213
5. 2004- George W. Bush- 62,041
6. 2012- Mitt Romney- 60,934
7. 2008- John McCain- 59,948
8. 2004- John Kerry- 59,028
9. 1984- Ronald Reagan- 54,455
10. 2000- Al Gore- 51,000
11. 2000- George W. Bush- 50,456

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by eric84 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:20 pm

shunter wrote:Over 2 million votes! That is a lot. Crazy system, crazy president.


There's been a few elections in Britain where the party with the most votes did not form government.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by shunter » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:24 pm

I know
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by korgy » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:53 am

Vinny, what source are you using? so i can source it directly when posting on another forum
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:00 am

Cook Political Report.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by korgy » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:34 am

thanks
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Lost Soul » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:28 am

Gorky, make sure that all fraudulent Dumbocratic votes count.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:00 am

There were 5 million fraudulent Republican votes from what I read.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Lost Soul » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:10 am

Godjira wrote:There were 5 million fraudulent Republican votes from what I read.

Do you have a Pube bragging about getting fraudulent votes on YouTube like you crooked Dumbocrats do?

I think not.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:30 am

Someone Tweeted it out and some jackass repeated it, so I assumed it was a fact, just like you!
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:41 pm

California still isn't finished.

Update.

1. 2008- Barack Obama- 69,499
2. 2012- Barack Obama- 65,916
3. 2016- Hillary Clinton- 65,152
4. 2016- Donald Trump- 62,626
5. 2004- George W. Bush- 62,041
6. 2012- Mitt Romney- 60,934
7. 2008- John McCain- 59,948
8. 2004- John Kerry- 59,028
9. 1984- Ronald Reagan- 54,455
10. 2000- Al Gore- 51,000
11. 2000- George W. Bush- 50,456

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:59 am

Holy cow. That's unreal. I bet it'll be more than 3 million votes in the end.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:50 am

I'm not sure how many more votes are yet to be counted. Not enough for her to catch Obama 2012.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Logg » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:13 am

"As Clinton’s popular lead surpasses 2.5 million votes, it grows larger than the lead with which 10 presidents have won the general election."

That quote caught my eye, from a Time article
http://time.com/4587158/clinton-leads-t ... ion-votes/

I can't find any links to back up that quote, but if I'm inferring the context correctly, then Hillary's popular margin over Trump surpasses 10/43 (not counting Ford) of the previous presidents' margins over their opponent.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:26 am

I think they are going by percentages. Her 1.9% margin over Trump is greater than the margin by which nine presidents won the popular vote, including the four who lost it. Wiki list.. Nixon 1968, Kennedy, Cleveland 1884, Garfield, and Polk won by narrower (but positive) margins.

But I make it ten counting Clinton, not ten others.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:31 am

I definitely think we'll see a backlash against the GOP. It didn't happen in congress because no one expected Trump to win.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Logg » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:38 am

VinnyD wrote:I think they are going by percentages. Her 1.9% margin over Trump is greater than the margin by which nine presidents won the popular vote, including the four who lost it. Wiki list.. Nixon 1968, Kennedy, Cleveland 1884, Garfield, and Polk won by narrower (but positive) margins.

But I make it ten counting Clinton, not ten others.


Thanks vinny. That's a helpful chart.

If we leave out the election of 1824, since it was brokered between four candidates in the House, then the widest positive poular vote margin for someone who ended up losing the election is the election of Hayes in 1876 at 3%, followed by Trump 2016 at 1.8%.

It's interesting that the election of 2016 is right next to the election of 1876, because that election is remembered as being the textbook example of an election being decided in a backroom deal that contradicted the actual vote. There were three disputed states, and had the Democrats had followed through with their challenge on those three disputed states, they would have won and Samuel Tilden would have been the president. But instead they agreed to ignore those three states, thus giving the election to Hayes, in return for ending Reconstruction in the South.

For his part, Hayes pledged not to run for a second term, and kept his word.

It certainly places the 2016 election in interesting company.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:20 am

Godjira: I don't think anyone votes like that.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:26 pm

Like what?
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:39 pm

I get what you mean. What I should say is that if Trump continues to embarrass the American people over the next 2 years as he has for the past 1, there will be an enormous backlash. Of course, we already know he will, so my original comment needs no clarification.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:48 pm

Yeah, that could be.

On the other hand, the Democrats are defending many more Senate seats than the Republicans in 2018. Gains there are unlikely, as is a takeover of the House. A little marginal progress is possible.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Jim-2012 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:36 am

Citizens Could Sue States to Purge Voter Rolls
Eligible voters could bring legal action on the basis illegal votes subvert their rights
by Robert Romano | Updated 24 Oct 2016 at 2:55 PM

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has complained about a potentially rigged electoral process in the U.S. — for good reason.
“Of course I would accept a clear election result, but I would also reserve my right to contest or file a legal challenge in the case of a questionable result,” Trump said at a Delaware, Ohio, rally on Oct. 20.
By allowing ineligible persons to register to vote and to vote in elections, the Federal Election Commission and states are allowing qualified voters’ voices to be fractionalized in the elections.
As well he should.

Trump noted a recent estimate by Pew Charitable Trust that found 1.8 million dead voters still on state voter registration systems, and 2.75 million voters registered in more than one state. A 2002 law by Congress already requires states to keep digital voter lists and to remove ineligible names from their systems, including the dead and those now out of state. But obviously it’s not getting done.

Trump also pointed to a 2014 estimate by Jesse Richman and David Earnest published in The Washington Post that found as many as 14 percent of non-citizens in the U.S. say they are registered to vote.

If true, that would mean of the 20.3 million non-citizens 18 years or older according to the U.S. Census Bureau, some 2.8 million could be registered to vote nationwide.

A survey is not necessarily evidence — but state records sure are. The Public Interest Legal Foundation has discovered  more than 1,000 ineligible non-citizens on voter rolls in just eight Virginia counties. And the only reason they found out about them was because those non-citizens requested removal. There were no records of the state proactively removing non-citizens, meaning the number of non-citizens on the rolls in Virginia could be much higher.
But the truth is, nobody really knows how many non-citizens are on the voter rolls. The Federal Election Commission and states are not required by law to verify citizenship, even though it is illegal for non-citizens to vote or register to vote.
Making matters worse, in the aforementioned 2002 law, non-citizens are not mentioned as one of the classes of people that should be removed from voter rolls by states — even though they absolutely should be. The dead, felons, and out-of-state persons are mentioned, but not non-citizens.
So what can be done?
For starters, Donald Trump could sue to have them removed. Or the Republican National Committee. Or state Republican committees.
Although the RNC apparently entered into a consent decree in 1981 not to pursue efforts to purge voter rolls of ineligible voters, the decree appears limited to targeting specific districts. Nothing from the decree would bar the GOP from targeting all 50 states' voter rolls.
That said, Republican leaders may still be reluctant to take up such a case. In that instance, aggrieved registered voters themselves might wish to take up the case, if they were so inclined.


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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:00 am

Jim-2012 wrote:Citizens Could Sue States to Purge Voter Rolls
Eligible voters could bring legal action on the basis illegal votes subvert their rights
by Robert Romano | Updated 24 Oct 2016 at 2:55 PM

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has complained about a potentially rigged electoral process in the U.S. — for good reason.
“Of course I would accept a clear election result, but I would also reserve my right to contest or file a legal challenge in the case of a questionable result,” Trump said at a Delaware, Ohio, rally on Oct. 20.
By allowing ineligible persons to register to vote and to vote in elections, the Federal Election Commission and states are allowing qualified voters’ voices to be fractionalized in the elections.
As well he should.

Trump noted a recent estimate by Pew Charitable Trust that found 1.8 million dead voters still on state voter registration systems, and 2.75 million voters registered in more than one state. A 2002 law by Congress already requires states to keep digital voter lists and to remove ineligible names from their systems, including the dead and those now out of state. But obviously it’s not getting done.

Trump also pointed to a 2014 estimate by Jesse Richman and David Earnest published in The Washington Post that found as many as 14 percent of non-citizens in the U.S. say they are registered to vote.

If true, that would mean of the 20.3 million non-citizens 18 years or older according to the U.S. Census Bureau, some 2.8 million could be registered to vote nationwide.

A survey is not necessarily evidence — but state records sure are. The Public Interest Legal Foundation has discovered  more than 1,000 ineligible non-citizens on voter rolls in just eight Virginia counties. And the only reason they found out about them was because those non-citizens requested removal. There were no records of the state proactively removing non-citizens, meaning the number of non-citizens on the rolls in Virginia could be much higher.
But the truth is, nobody really knows how many non-citizens are on the voter rolls. The Federal Election Commission and states are not required by law to verify citizenship, even though it is illegal for non-citizens to vote or register to vote.
Making matters worse, in the aforementioned 2002 law, non-citizens are not mentioned as one of the classes of people that should be removed from voter rolls by states — even though they absolutely should be. The dead, felons, and out-of-state persons are mentioned, but not non-citizens.
So what can be done?
For starters, Donald Trump could sue to have them removed. Or the Republican National Committee. Or state Republican committees.
Although the RNC apparently entered into a consent decree in 1981 not to pursue efforts to purge voter rolls of ineligible voters, the decree appears limited to targeting specific districts. Nothing from the decree would bar the GOP from targeting all 50 states' voter rolls.
That said, Republican leaders may still be reluctant to take up such a case. In that instance, aggrieved registered voters themselves might wish to take up the case, if they were so inclined.





These mentally challenged individuals should be listened to. Let's throw out the election results.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Lost Soul » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:38 am

Godjira wrote: Let's throw out the election results.

Yes.

At least in every crooked, Dumbocratic (redundant), big city, every four years.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:57 am

Rather than a property requirement, how about an IQ test?
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Maxwell » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:52 pm

Godjira wrote:Rather than a property requirement, how about an IQ test?


I think a basic civics class on how government works and the responsibility of government would be a good idea. In my opinion there are too many citizens that don't understand the difference where government responsibility ends and theirs begins and visa versa.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:40 pm

Examples?
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:16 am

I like democracy.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by korgy » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:38 am

Maxwell wrote:In my opinion there are too many citizens that don't understand the difference where government responsibility ends and theirs begins and visa versa.
good luck defining this typical right-wing talking point. the notion that there is a clearly defined line separating government responsibility from personal repsonsibility, a line whose placement has not been debated since the inception of our Constitution, is silly.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Maxwell » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:43 am

korgy wrote:
Maxwell wrote:In my opinion there are too many citizens that don't understand the difference where government responsibility ends and theirs begins and visa versa.
good luck defining this typical right-wing talking point. the notion that there is a clearly defined line separating government responsibility from personal repsonsibility, a line whose placement has not been debated since the inception of our Constitution, is silly.


It's debated often. The claim that it isn't is what's "silly".

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Maxwell » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:49 am

VinnyD wrote:I like democracy.


Move to India. The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by korgy » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:06 am

Maxwell wrote:
korgy wrote:
Maxwell wrote:In my opinion there are too many citizens that don't understand the difference where government responsibility ends and theirs begins and visa versa.
good luck defining this typical right-wing talking point. the notion that there is a clearly defined line separating government responsibility from personal repsonsibility, a line whose placement has not been debated since the inception of our Constitution, is silly.
It's debated often. The claim that it isn't is what's "silly".
well, if you're going to teach all those "citizens that don't understand the difference where government responsibility ends and theirs begins", it might good to agree on where government responsibility ends and citizens' begins.

naturally, i would assume you think there is no debate about that, since you want to teach it.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Godjira » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:18 am

Maxwell wrote:The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.


The two terms are not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:14 pm

Maxwell, a vocabulary lesson:

Republic: Head of state is not a monarch.

Constitutional: With a constitution.

Democrac: Rule by the people.

Godjira is right. The USSR was a constitutional republic that was not a democracy. Denmark is a democracy that is not a constitutional republic.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Maxwell » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:36 pm

VinnyD wrote:Maxwell, a vocabulary lesson:

Republic: Head of state is not a monarch.

Constitutional: With a constitution.

Democrac: Rule by the people.

Godjira is right. The USSR was a constitutional republic that was not a democracy. Denmark is a democracy that is not a constitutional republic.


A Constitutional Republic is a state where the officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens. A Constitutional Republic is the current form of government in the United States.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:54 pm

republic, n. (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government

Australia is not a republic; neither is Denmark. In both, the officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:05 pm

Update.

1. 2008- Barack Obama- 69,499
2. 2012- Barack Obama- 65,916
3. 2016- Hillary Clinton- 65,317
4. 2016- Donald Trump- 62,720
5. 2004- George W. Bush- 62,041
6. 2012- Mitt Romney- 60,934
7. 2008- John McCain- 59,948
8. 2004- John Kerry- 59,028
9. 1984- Ronald Reagan- 54,455
10. 2000- Al Gore- 51,000
11. 2000- George W. Bush- 50,456

Still not final.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by Maxwell » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:15 pm

VinnyD wrote:republic, n. (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government

Australia is not a republic; neither is Denmark. In both, the officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens.


We're in agreement.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:36 pm

Update.

1. 2008- Barack Obama- 69,499
2. 2012- Barack Obama- 65,916
3. 2016- Hillary Clinton- 65,519
4. 2016- Donald Trump- 62,847
5. 2004- George W. Bush- 62,041
6. 2012- Mitt Romney- 60,934
7. 2008- John McCain- 59,948
8. 2004- John Kerry- 59,028
9. 1984- Ronald Reagan- 54,455
10. 2000- Al Gore- 51,000
11. 2000- George W. Bush- 50,456

Clinton's lead over Trump is up to 2%: 48.2% of votes cast to 46.2%.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by ASQ » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:51 pm

If you take California out of those numbers, what would her lead be?

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by sodelicious » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:12 pm

ASQ wrote:If you take California out of those numbers, what would her lead be?


Probably not by much, or even behind Donald Trump. Just like if you take Florida and Pennsylvania and switch the results, Hillary wins the EC.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:20 pm

ASQ wrote:If you take California out of those numbers, what would her lead be?

I don't know. It wuold be smaller.

If you Texas out it would be bigger.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by eric84 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:49 pm

Hillary would be losing by about a million votes without California. With it, she has a 2.7 million vote lead.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:18 pm

Without Texas, she would lead by about 3.3 million votes. Trump's lead was about 9%, down from Romney's 16% lead in 2012.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by eric84 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:23 pm

No, more like 3.5 million. Trump's lead is about 800k in Texas.
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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:48 pm

Quite right.

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by ACommonLoon » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:25 pm

wouldn't a graph of US population growth basically say the same thing?

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Re: Top ten popular vote winners in US presidential history

Post by VinnyD » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:24 pm

No. The population has grown in the last eight years, and it was bigger in 2000 than in 1984.

Also, it wouldn't show who had got more popular votes in any gven election.

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