Football needs to evolve

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Aeneas
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Football needs to evolve

Post by Aeneas » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:08 am

It's time to tweak the game. From a N. American perspective I've witnessed the big 4 sports change the rules to deal with the constant evolution of the game. I think soccer is long overdue for some serious modification. There should be some incentive to play with the initiative, rather than each side hoping to nullify the opposition's attack and strike on the counter. The counterattack has its place, however, it shouldn't be the primary weapon of a talented side.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by OnTheBall » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:34 am

A lot of non-yanks find NFL's stop-start nature boring as batshit. Yanks always go on about how foreigners do not understand the tactics and strategy involved in NFL to truly appreciate it. For the record, it actually is boring as batshit - tactics and all.

The Argentina vs Netherlands game was not boring. It was a great tactical battle of two great sides trying to find an opening to score a goal. An arm wrestle if you want to find a cliche. If yanks cannot appreciate that then they can either 1. learn more about the game and its nuances or 2. fuck off back to basketball and its 115 to 112 scorelines.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:32 pm

Argentina-Netherlands was a great match. It would be good if there were some way of deciding the winner in a game drawn after two extra periods other than a shootout, which is not much different than a coin toss,but I have no useful suggestions.

What makes NFL games boring is the amount of time devoted to TV commercials. If you were to start watching through TIVO or the like 90 minutes after the kickoff and zip through the commercials, it wouldn't be boring at all. In the 1950s an NFL game took less than two hours.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:20 pm

What a Fucking Shite OP...Trolling?

I assume you are a Thick Seppo and a Female...

"The modern global game of Football was first codified in 1863 in London" and is the best Sport on this planet...

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:28 pm

I would guess that the OP is a male Canadian, based on the masculine handle and his specifying that he is seeing things from a North American perspective.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Agent009 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:41 pm

The uefa leader has proposed adding a penalty box........

UEFA president Michel Platini has called for soccer to emulate rugby by implementing a sin-bin system for yellow-card offenses.

At present players who accumulate a number of cautions - typically five - are handed a ban, but Platini says that system only benefits teams who were not the victims of the earlier offenses.

Instead, the former France international believes a more instantaneous sanction is required, which would benefit the team against whom the offense has been committed.

"I would change the system of warnings. I would make it like rugby, punishing the offender with 10 or 15 minutes out of the game," Platini Spanish sports daily newspaper AS.

"That way, the benefit goes to the team he is playing against, in the same match, instead of a sanction by cards which is carried out against a third team, the next on the calendar.


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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Kilombo » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:49 pm

This WC was brilliant so far. Of course there should be some changes but you have to be careful with that.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:16 pm

VinnyD wrote:I would guess that the OP is a male Canadian, based on the masculine handle and his specifying that he is seeing things from a North American perspective.


That's a Whooooooosh! for you, Vinny!

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by brodie_bruce » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:33 am

Aeneas wrote:It's time to tweak the game.


We got disappearing foam in this world cup......
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Iolar » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:44 am

And goal-line technology.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:11 am

And an absence of vuvuzelas.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by brodie_bruce » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:06 pm

Thank god for that.

Are we talking evolution along these lines? (disclaimer - I think this is the YouTube video I'm after but due to archaic technology at work I can see about 5 seconds before it crashes).


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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:52 pm

grecian wrote:
VinnyD wrote:I would guess that the OP is a male Canadian, based on the masculine handle and his specifying that he is seeing things from a North American perspective.


That's a Whooooooosh! for you, Vinny!



In the prediction league, OP has a Dutch flag.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:28 pm

Pardon?

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muthafunky
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:03 pm

The main problem with soccer is it was not designed to have a clear winner at the end of the game. That's fine most of the time, but for the really important matches, say the knockout stages of the World Cup, it can lead to tedious extra time and incredibly lame shoot outs. If you want to keep the game as is your tournaments shouldn't be set up with single game eliminations. Seems obvious.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Agent009 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:42 pm

muthafunky wrote:The main problem with soccer is it was not designed to have a clear winner at the end of the game. That's fine most of the time, but for the really important matches, say the knockout stages of the World Cup, it can lead to tedious extra time and incredibly lame shoot outs. If you want to keep the game as is your tournaments shouldn't be set up with single game eliminations. Seems obvious.


Generally soccer does not use single elimination games for tournaments......
There are, for the most part, no 'playorfs' in soccer, the team with the best record over the season is the winner. Playorfs are for pooooftas and team owners bottom line.
When there are tournaments, like the champions league, euro, FA, copa del ray, us open cup, the teams will play one home game and one away game.
If it is still tied, they play another game, the exception being the final.

Its just not logistically po55ible to do for the world cup and/or other national team competitions where the schedule is so tight, obvballs.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:51 pm

Its just not logistically po55ible to do for the world cup and/or other national team competitions where the schedule is so tight, obvballs.


You could easily go more with a point system or have the knockout stages be more than a single game. As I said, soccer isn't really designed to guarantee a winner from a single game, so why try to crowbar your tournament structure into something that doesn't fit the game?

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Agent009 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:03 pm

$$$
There is a point system for the stages before the finals.
The only way i could see doing that something like during the finals would be to cut the amount of teams at the final stage. (FIFA wants to add more teams to the finals, so that isnt going to happpen)
They only have a month to play the final tournament.
It must be noted that the players for the national teams are the property of 'real' teams, and the reality is their schedules are more important.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Jelly_Belly » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:52 pm

I thought that at the conclusion of the last World Cup, officials stated that they would cut out, or at least down of the taking of dives...but they appear to be plentiful this World Cup. As well, it appears that fouling violently has increased, which only adds to the game if you like the diving and not being able to tell if it is real or not.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by VinnyD » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:32 pm

It might make more sense to say "There is no winner of the World Cup this year" or perhaps "There are two winners of the World Cup this year" rather than decide the winner by means of a shoot-out. That wouldn't apply to anything but the final, obvballs.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:16 pm

Agent009 wrote:$$$
There is a point system for the stages before the finals.
The only way i could see doing that something like during the finals would be to cut the amount of teams at the final stage. (FIFA wants to add more teams to the finals, so that isnt going to happpen)
They only have a month to play the final tournament.
It must be noted that the players for the national teams are the property of 'real' teams, and the reality is their schedules are more important.


It's the world cup, for fuck's sake, you know the once every four years sporting event that is the most popular in the world? I'm pretty sure they have the power to tweak the rules if they want.

It's obvious the sport doesn't work well with single elimination games, why is it so hard for soccer fans to just admit that? I've never understood the crusader like fervor with which soccer fans defend their game as though it's impossible to improve upon.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:33 pm

It's obvious the sport doesn't work well with single elimination games, why is it so hard for soccer fans to just admit that? I've never understood the crusader like fervor with which soccer fans defend their game as though it's impossible to improve upon.


If you don't like Football. ok...I can live with it..

There's a Group Stage then a Knockout Stage..

The games last 90 minutes and then, if they are still level then it's Penalties..

Which part of your tiny brain has a problem with that system for a Tournament to run to time and end when it says it will?

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by muthafunky » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:01 pm

I like soccer just fine. I watch the world cup and I go to local games. I'm also adult enough to admit there are aspects which kind of suck, much like every other sport.

Are you really arguing that it's impossible to have any system other than single elimination knock outs? The sport isn't designed for it, how is that not obvious to you?

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Agent009 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:15 pm

So hard to admit?.....
I did admit it, and dont think ive crusaded against change, most fans would like a different way.
And most any other tournament will do it a different way.
That said, there really is no other way to do it for the WC or other events with national teams, due to the amount of teams in the final stage and the time constraints.
If germany and argentina draw tommorrow, it would be great if they would play a second game to decide....
But when, next weeek. Have everyone fly back to brazil for an extra game.
The logistics are IMPOSSIBLE.
And if they had to do it for all the other matches, OMG, its likely we would still be waiting for results from semifinal games!
Especially when the clubs that pay the millions in salaries have the schedules that really matter.
Remember, football seasons last over 10 months, not 6 like typical NA sports.
It just is what it is.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:18 pm

muthafunky wrote:I like soccer just fine. I watch the world cup and I go to local games. I'm also adult enough to admit there are aspects which kind of suck, much like every other sport.

Are you really arguing that it's impossible to have any system other than single elimination knock outs? The sport isn't designed for it, how is that not obvious to you?


I really don't know what you are getting at, above....and I did explain the World Cup nicely for you. (Apart from me missing out the 30 minutes of Extra Time!)

Can you please explain what gripe you actually have with The World Cup/ Football and maybe then I can set you straight?...

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:23 pm

The sport isn't designed for it, how is that not obvious to you?


That is especially curious as regards a Tournament and it's Football...

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by muthafunky » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:41 pm

A two game series would be better. Fewer teams advancing out of group stage. Or even just point totals to decide. There are a lot of things you could do. Take more time, don't see why you can't. If you can't then invite fewer teams.

Any of that would be preferable to shoot outs deciding games.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by davebt » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:54 pm

The FA cup used to have replays and then more replays....in the end the logistical problem forced the English FA to restrict replays....
I agree that Penalties are an awful way to decide a match, but think it is just one of the flaws of the game in cup competitions. They've tried Golden Goal, Silver Goal.. and dropped them....
In the end, football like Mutha said is a game that is designed to produce draws frequently....
And we will have to live with that.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by sodelicious » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:29 am

Dave, why did they drop Golden Goal?
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by davebt » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:00 am

sodelicious wrote:Dave, why did they drop Golden Goal?


I think they dropped it because it created an absolute in Football that is alien to the sport. One of the greatest elements of football is that their is always hope, always a chance.....United being 1-0 down in the Champions League Final as they entered the 90th minute is a classic example. The golden goal which was introduced to entice more attacking play, but backfired because the stakes became too high and it introduced an absolute during playing time. In support of thus Wiki suggests statistically more games ended goalless as teams defended against the golden goal rather than attack to score it themselves. In other words it made the game less interesting and more of the matches it was designed to decide ended up in a penalty shoot out.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by VinnyD » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:34 am

I think they dropped it because it created an absolute in Football that is alien to the sport. One of the greatest elements of football is that their is always hope, always a chance.

Until the game ends, in whatever way the rules provide. Which could be a golden goal, a silver goal, a shootout, or whatever. That argument doesn't hold up.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by eric84 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:45 pm

It's actually amazing to me that they can block off a whole month for this competition and get agreement from domestic teams that actually pay them. Hockey has a tough enough time getting 2 weeks for the olympics

Baseball's world cup has single elimination games and I wouldn't say baseball is suited for that format either. You do the best you can given the circumstances.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by VinnyD » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:57 pm

eric84 wrote:It's actually amazing to me that they can block off a whole month for this competition and get agreement from domestic teams that actually pay them. Hockey has a tough enough time getting 2 weeks for the olympics.


I always wondered about that too. but somebody said above (or maybe on another thread) that the owners of the professional teams somehow own the national teams.

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:09 pm

Do you ever listen, Vinny?

The golden goal which was introduced to entice more attacking play, but backfired because the stakes became too high and it introduced an absolute during playing time. In support of thus Wiki suggests statistically more games ended goalless as teams defended against the golden goal rather than attack to score it themselves

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Agent009 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:21 pm

grecian wrote:Do you ever listen

Geeeky asking if someone else listens......
Haha...
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:25 pm

Who's pulled your chain?

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Aeneas » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:45 am

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
grecian wrote:
VinnyD wrote:I would guess that the OP is a male Canadian, based on the masculine handle and his specifying that he is seeing things from a North American perspective.


That's a Whooooooosh! for you, Vinny!



In the prediction league, OP has a Dutch flag.

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Eh?
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by eric84 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:26 pm

VinnyD wrote:
eric84 wrote:It's actually amazing to me that they can block off a whole month for this competition and get agreement from domestic teams that actually pay them. Hockey has a tough enough time getting 2 weeks for the olympics.


I always wondered about that too. but somebody said above (or maybe on another thread) that the owners of the professional teams somehow own the national teams.


Own them? Like make money from the World Cup? I find that hard to believe.
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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by grecian » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:39 pm

Anyone who posts 'obvballs' can never hit any nail on any head....

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Re: Football needs to evolve

Post by Scott_Baio » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:10 pm

.
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