Australian wine-Shit or not?

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Lincoln
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Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Lincoln » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:07 pm

Aussie wines were once fashionable over here in the Motherland but over the last decade it seems they are less so.

I've had the odd good one but some shite as well.

Tonight readers I am delving back into Australian vintnerism...will I be disappointed?

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Lincoln » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:10 pm

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Lincoln » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:11 pm

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Lincoln » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:11 pm

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Chi_Rup » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:31 pm

They suddenly got expensive around the turn of the century, the climate got hot making them all a bit alcoholic and jammy and the international winemaking industry (mostly Australians) in Europe that got rolling in the 80s and 90s, matured.

Oh yeah, and the Australian oaky Chardonnay style fell dramatically out of fashion.

Once in a while I’ll get an Australian red in a Bin End case but it will be flabby as fuck. But I’m £7-£10 a bottle man.

I’m going on tour to Australia next year, the Producer says it’s so I can choose the wine for the crew dinner. I’m looking forward to it because at home I reckon it’s still good.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by mad hatter » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:40 pm

the gbp fell/the aud rose, its always been hot in straya and most if the wine in the uk is supermarket swill for the great unwashed, imported in 10000 litre bladders.

as much as it pains me to say it the crims do some cracking wines.

Nines to Felix:
I know a lot of really successful lawyers. My oldest son is a full partner in a prestigious law firm. I know the gig.

None of them have the time nor inclination to post the never-ending drivel like you've done for decades here on Talk Politics or even Lonely Planet back in the day.

Nines to Felix: "I know a lot of really successful lawyers. My oldest son is a full partner in a prestigious law firm. I know the gig. None of them have the time nor inclination to post the never-ending drivel like you've done for decades here"

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Lincoln » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:11 pm

Well this was isn't to bad...i'm half way through and yes, it is a bit alcoholic and Jammy...that spot on haggis and worded what I was thinking.

It's 14.5% which is too much for me...as a veggie I prefer 12 or ideally 12.5 % wines....are most Aussie wines 14%?

This vino has something to it...there's a slight depth to it that I can't find the word for but its pretty damn good...not sure id drink it every week but for a change it ok..

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by guruwil » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:02 pm

I do beleive that much of the worst of Australian wine gets exported to you guys, but there are stunning Australian wines, reds in particular, but I happen to like the higher alcohol heavy Shiraz.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:10 pm

Welcome to the post-Brexit landscape

More inferior Australian and Kiwi produce.

Does Ireland do nice wines now?

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Bastet » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:12 pm

There are fantastic wines here but the good once appear not to be exported.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by BulletPark » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:14 pm

They are a little bit better than California, Canadian, New York State and South African wines, but so is my steaming post-fuck piss.

New Zealand is the only new world wine with any drinkability to it IMO, although Peru has a few workable reds. Venezuela too, if you pair it with an all-meat dinner. And they do. Boy oh boy, they do.

France and Italy are still the places where wine is made. Everything else is just sort of...wine-colored.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by GLimpet » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:01 am

Bastet wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:12 pm
There are fantastic wines here but the good once appear not to be exported.
True.

Most export wines now are made for the market in those countries.
If you think it's shit it's because you want shit.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Chi_Rup » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:28 am

Toughest customers in my suburban Glasgow wine shop were the middle aged or older people desperate for sweet red wine. Which you can get with a blended New World plonk but then they’d want to spend £50 on it because it was an anniversary present...

They’d be retired now but I reckon a younger generation still has that sweet tooth and wants to drink wine that winemakers don’t want to make.

A £10 Penfolds Rawsons Retreat goes well with a curry - all fruit, nothing to fight with the spice, just enough structure to hold it together.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by BulletPark » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:37 am

Yeah, I have heard the "good stuff never gets exported" line from more than one place.

Oddly enough, when I went to the place and drank the wine, it was still shit.

It's the "I'm dating a girl in Canada" excuse.

Wine =

France
Italy
My taint
The rest of the world

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by misanthrope » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:09 am

BulletPark wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:14 pm
They are a little bit better than California, Canadian, New York State and South African wines, but so is my steaming post-fuck piss.

New Zealand is the only new world wine with any drinkability to it IMO, although Peru has a few workable reds. Venezuela too, if you pair it with an all-meat dinner. And they do. Boy oh boy, they do.

France and Italy are still the places where wine is made. Everything else is just sort of...wine-colored.
You can't put California in with that group - or the pac northwest. Can't agree with NZ being drinkable. Tasmania has better pinots. South America is generally awful except fir a handful of Argentine reds.

Australia is one of the best wine producers on earth.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by BulletPark » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:13 am

misanthrope wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:09 am
BulletPark wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:14 pm
They are a little bit better than California, Canadian, New York State and South African wines, but so is my steaming post-fuck piss.

New Zealand is the only new world wine with any drinkability to it IMO, although Peru has a few workable reds. Venezuela too, if you pair it with an all-meat dinner. And they do. Boy oh boy, they do.

France and Italy are still the places where wine is made. Everything else is just sort of...wine-colored.
You can't put California in with that group - or the pac northwest. Can't agree with NZ being drinkable. Tasmania has better pinots. South America is generally awful except fir a handful of Argentine reds.

Australia is one of the best wine producers on earth.
Are you defending California or suggesting I am not harsh enough? If the latter, I am willing to concur.

Yes, Argentina, rather than Venezuela was what I was thinking of.

Australia is one of the "best wine producers" on earth only because the competition sucks balls.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by misanthrope » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:21 am

You're too harsh on California.

Australia has good wines.

Stay in your lane on this one.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:40 am

Chi_Rup wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:28 am
Toughest customers in my suburban Glasgow wine shop were the middle aged or older people desperate for sweet red wine. Which you can get with a blended New World plonk but then they’d want to spend £50 on it because it was an anniversary present...

They’d be retired now but I reckon a younger generation still has that sweet tooth and wants to drink wine that winemakers don’t want to make.

A £10 Penfolds Rawsons Retreat goes well with a curry - all fruit, nothing to fight with the spice, just enough structure to hold it together.
How much is Buckie these days?

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by guruwil » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:23 am

BulletPark wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:14 pm
They are a little bit better than California, Canadian, New York State and South African wines, but so is my steaming post-fuck piss.

New Zealand is the only new world wine with any drinkability to it IMO, although Peru has a few workable reds. Venezuela too, if you pair it with an all-meat dinner. And they do. Boy oh boy, they do.

France and Italy are still the places where wine is made. Everything else is just sort of...wine-colored.
I don’t normally use these terms in relation to you BP, but in this one you are clueless, California, Australia and New Zealand make really outstanding wines better then the majority of France and Italy. France beats them out in the end, butnonly at the top end. Italy doesn’t.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by BulletPark » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:39 pm

guruwil wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:23 am
France beats them out in the end, but only at the top end.
What, you mean where I drink wine? Okay. Thanks for agreeing with me, I guess.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by misanthrope » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:03 pm

You probably don't even know what you're drinking.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Homerj » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:44 pm

BulletPark wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:14 pm
They are a little bit better than California, Canadian, New York State and South African wines, but so is my steaming post-fuck piss.

New Zealand is the only new world wine with any drinkability to it IMO, although Peru has a few workable reds. Venezuela too, if you pair it with an all-meat dinner. And they do. Boy oh boy, they do.

France and Italy are still the places where wine is made. Everything else is just sort of...wine-colored.
What a complete load of shit.
Willamette Valley Pinots leave the weak and flabby french versions in the dust.
NZ sauv blanc and pinots are also far superior to anything made on the continent.
Both CA and OZ do the fruit forward thing better than any place on the continent.
The limits of the varietals in those two countries is where you argument completely falls apart.
Yes the old world still makes some of the world best tipples, but its really limited to maybe 5 or 6 varietals, if your palate is that limited then sure.
Mine ain't.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Chi_Rup » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:59 am

Fruit forward is low class. It’s like praising pizza for having the most cheese.

As for “5 or 6 varietals”, that’s just bollocks. I assume you meant something else.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by guruwil » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:15 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:59 am
Fruit forward is low class.
What does that even mean?

From Wine Spectator
The terms “New World” and “Old World” have both geographic and stylistic implications in the world of wine, but neither of them is “better” than the other. These terms are considered largely out of date these days, though I still hear them used to help make some broad generalizations about wine.

Geographically, Europe is referred to as the Old World and New World refers to all of the other wine regions. Stylistically, there’s an understanding that Old World wines tend to be lighter bodied, with more herb and mineral characteristics, while New World wines are centered on riper, lusher fruit flavors. There’s also an indication that Old Word wineries are more traditional and New World wineries are more modern.

While these terms might have been helpful as the wine world was growing decades ago, I think they are mostly outdated. There are plenty of European wineries adapting modern practices and ripe styles, and plenty of wineries in New World regions like the United States or Australia that make elegant, low-alcohol styles of wine. New methods, changing climates and a growing, diverse world of wine has grown beyond these two categories.

“Fruit forward” is a popular term to describe a style of wine where the fruit flavors are dominant. Other wines might emphasize savory notes, or have plenty of fruit flavors, but they are more integrated with the wine’s other elements. But in fruit-forward wines, fruit notes prevail. There are many decisions a winemaker can make to get to a fruit-forward profile, from deciding when to pick the grapes to determining how much (if any) oak barrels are used.

The term can be either positive or negative, depending on the context. But I definitely see it creeping up in two areas outside of describing specific wines. First, many use the term “fruit forward” as a way to describe how New World wines are more likely to emphasize fruit flavors over Old World wines. While that was a helpful distinction years ago, I feel like the lines have been blurred between styles and regions—and in a good way. There’s a delicious, complex world of wine out there and it’s not as simple anymore as assigning a single style to a single region.

Secondly, "fruit forward" can be a pejorative way to indicate a wine that’s out of balance and lacking complexity. The term can be used to refer to wines that are simple, cheap and/or one-dimensional. I don’t think that’s a fair use, however: A wine can appear fruit-forward at first, revealing its nuances with air or over time, but that’s how the term is sometimes used.
What is low class is very subjective as is taste
An it harm none, do what ye will

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Unwashed_Pom » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:46 pm

Tasmania is still part of the new world last time I looked.

https://www.jacgroup.com.au/josef-chomy-wines/

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by BulletPark » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:02 am

Homerj wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:44 pm
BulletPark wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:14 pm
They are a little bit better than California, Canadian, New York State and South African wines, but so is my steaming post-fuck piss.

New Zealand is the only new world wine with any drinkability to it IMO, although Peru has a few workable reds. Venezuela too, if you pair it with an all-meat dinner. And they do. Boy oh boy, they do.

France and Italy are still the places where wine is made. Everything else is just sort of...wine-colored.
What a complete load of shit.
Willamette Valley Pinots leave the weak and flabby french versions in the dust.
NZ sauv blanc and pinots are also far superior to anything made on the continent.
Both CA and OZ do the fruit forward thing better than any place on the continent.
The limits of the varietals in those two countries is where you argument completely falls apart.
Yes the old world still makes some of the world best tipples, but its really limited to maybe 5 or 6 varietals, if your palate is that limited then sure.
Mine ain't.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by trixie » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:48 am

Wine threads make me want to bang my head against a wall. 5 or 6 varietals in the Old World?! Off the top of my head, without googling or thinking very hard, I would make it to 25 varietals. After that, I may hesitate, but I'd get there. Cab Sauv, cab franc, merlot, malbec, petit verdot, syrah, grenache, mouvedre, carignan, cinsault, counois,gamay, pinot noir, pinot meunier, chardonnay, pinot blanc, sauvignon blanc, pinot gris, chenin blanc, viognier, marsanne, rousanne, grenache blanc, muscadet, picpoul de pinet, semillion, muscat... and I haven't left France. Then we have Italy -- nebbiolo, dolcetto, barbera, sangiovese, volpolicella, nero d'avola, frappato, aglianico and primativo and so many whites I can't keep track of them all. Spain: tempranillo, mencia, txokolina, albarino and the Portugese grapes that I can't ever keep track of. Germany and reisling, gewurtztraminer. Austraia gives us gruner veltliner and blaufrankisch. (I finally had to google the spelling of blaufrankisch) And I can;t even start on Slovenian, Croatian and Georgian wines because I don't fully understand them, but they exist and I hear many are exquisite.

What was that about 5- 6 varietals?

I tend towards French and Italian wines and include German wines in The Best of the The Best, but the New World is producing some good stuff. I love me some Oregon pinot noir, but I'm admittedly biased.

My problem with Australian wine is that don't know what it offers the world of wine. I find them hot and jammy and oaky. OK, Penfolds is one of The Greats, but so out of reach for most people it doesn't matter. FWIW, I often say the same of California wines. I'm sort of "meh" on them. That said, some new, young(ish) producers are making forward-thinking wines.

NZ Sauv blancs have nothing on Loire Valley Sancerre and tend to taste like grapefruit and cat pee. Their pinot noir can't hold a candle to Burgundy, but then, nothing does. Weak? Ha. Not even close. And I've only been privy to some basic, entry-level Marsannay and Mercurey. Not first growth or anything like that. And literally NO ONE does chardonnay like the French.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by trixie » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:37 am

* First growth should read "grand cru". I think the "growth" designation is only applicable to Bordeaux, not Burgundy.

A lot of people mistake "fruit" for "oak". Both California and Australia tend to overuse new oak, so all those flavors like vanilla and cherry cola are actually from oak and not fruit. If you want a hot, full-bodied pinot noir you want California PN, which I find heavy and extracted. Willamette Valley PN tends to be light and fruity and low in alcohol, unless the producer is trying to appeal to a California palate. (see: Ken Wright) The other issue with CA and Australian wine is extraction. Blame Parker. He pushed the extracted, oaky, high alcohol wines and now people think those are "good". Give me a Loire Valley cab franc or a cru beaujolais made using carbonic maceration and whole cluster fermentation any day over those wines.

But in the end, you drink what you like. (but I can judge your palate, and I guarentee that I almost always am judging it -- for better or worse!)
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by mad hatter » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:04 am

guruwil wrote:
Chi_Rup wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:59 am
Fruit forward is low class.
What does that even mean?

From Wine Spectator
The terms “New World” and “Old World” have both geographic and stylistic implications in the world of wine, but neither of them is “better” than the other. These terms are considered largely out of date these days, though I still hear them used to help make some broad generalizations about wine.

Geographically, Europe is referred to as the Old World and New World refers to all of the other wine regions. Stylistically, there’s an understanding that Old World wines tend to be lighter bodied, with more herb and mineral characteristics, while New World wines are centered on riper, lusher fruit flavors. There’s also an indication that Old Word wineries are more traditional and New World wineries are more modern.

While these terms might have been helpful as the wine world was growing decades ago, I think they are mostly outdated. There are plenty of European wineries adapting modern practices and ripe styles, and plenty of wineries in New World regions like the United States or Australia that make elegant, low-alcohol styles of wine. New methods, changing climates and a growing, diverse world of wine has grown beyond these two categories.

“Fruit forward” is a popular term to describe a style of wine where the fruit flavors are dominant. Other wines might emphasize savory notes, or have plenty of fruit flavors, but they are more integrated with the wine’s other elements. But in fruit-forward wines, fruit notes prevail. There are many decisions a winemaker can make to get to a fruit-forward profile, from deciding when to pick the grapes to determining how much (if any) oak barrels are used.

The term can be either positive or negative, depending on the context. But I definitely see it creeping up in two areas outside of describing specific wines. First, many use the term “fruit forward” as a way to describe how New World wines are more likely to emphasize fruit flavors over Old World wines. While that was a helpful distinction years ago, I feel like the lines have been blurred between styles and regions—and in a good way. There’s a delicious, complex world of wine out there and it’s not as simple anymore as assigning a single style to a single region.

Secondly, "fruit forward" can be a pejorative way to indicate a wine that’s out of balance and lacking complexity. The term can be used to refer to wines that are simple, cheap and/or one-dimensional. I don’t think that’s a fair use, however: A wine can appear fruit-forward at first, revealing its nuances with air or over time, but that’s how the term is sometimes used.
What is low class is very subjective as is taste
how very dare you, chi worked part time in an odd bins (uk wine shop chain) years ago
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Iolar » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:23 am

its really limited to maybe 5 or 6 varietals
???

Portugal, alone, has more than a dozen varietals that start with the letter 'a'!
NZ sauv blanc and pinots are also far superior to anything made on the continent.
You have the palate of a child.

I'm pretty sure my piss tastes more nuanced than a New Zealand sauvignon blanc. They all taste like passion fruit. You've clearly never had Sancerre.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by mad hatter » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:47 am

I used to attend chief wine officer events regularly when I worked in the city. They taught me that styles are merging, old world and price isn't necessarily an indicator of quality, champagne is the only bubbly worth drinking and that wine wankers mostly get caught out at blind tastings.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Iolar » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:00 am

For any consumer purchase, pricing is generally a reasonable indicator of quality. However, not in isolation - there are other cues. But it's easy for wine producers to catch people out because most consumers are uninformed and will just choose the more expensive wine that's within their budget. See the whole natural wine phenomenon - most of it is piss with well-designed branding.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Lincoln » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:36 am

In the interest of feeding back I have to say that the wine really was nothing special at all...2/3 into it I found it decent but I was pissed and stoned so not a great time to critique.

I'm surprised to read so many of you saying Italian wines along with the French are the best.... I get the French bit but not Italian...my experience of Italian wine is pretty similar to the Ozzy experience....i.e nothing special.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Iolar » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:39 am

I have always found that you can't really go wrong with Spanish wines.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Lincoln » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:49 am

Amen to that...by far my favourite wines after france.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:10 am

Italians don’t help with their badging and labelling. Any twat can get a gold badge on their Chianti DOCG but almost none of it will be as tasty as something from Abruzzo. You often need a guide, really good wine doesn’t need to be expensive but it’s often hidden. There’s a wine stall at Borough Market I trust, never buy wine from Marks & Spencer’s.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by snowgirl » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:52 pm

I would love to go wine tasting with trixie because I know I'd learn a lot but I would also fear to go wine tasting with trixie because she would judge me harshly and I would be found Wanting.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by trixie » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:07 pm

Ha. There are few things I judge harshly -- one is super high alcohol, oaky wines that are ridiculously priced. See: Napa Cab, Orin Swift wines and anything from the Wagner family, including that abomination of a wine, Meiomi. Two is Rombauer chardonnay, AKA Cougar Juice. $40+ for sweet, overoaked chardonnay. Ugh.

But really, it's all about having an open mind and learning how to read lables. I've found that for every New World varietal, once I try their Old World counterpart I find the French, Italian, Spanish, German version to be vastly superior.

On the other hand, some of the innovative producers I've found in California, Oregon and Washington State are truly world-class. You just have to find them and I'm just scratching the surface. Maybe this exists in Australia. I don't know.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by GLimpet » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:14 pm

snowgirl wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:52 pm
I would love to go wine tasting with trixie because I know I'd learn a lot but I would also fear to go wine tasting with trixie because she would judge me harshly and I would be found Wanting.
This happens when I drink wine with Swiss wife of cousin-in-law.
You know she doesn't think much of the wine when she orders beer.

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by snowgirl » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:42 pm

trixie wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:07 pm
Ha. There are few things I judge harshly -- one is super high alcohol, oaky wines that are ridiculously priced. See: Napa Cab, Orin Swift wines and anything from the Wagner family, including that abomination of a wine, Meiomi. Two is Rombauer chardonnay, AKA Cougar Juice. $40+ for sweet, overoaked chardonnay. Ugh.

But really, it's all about having an open mind and learning how to read lables. I've found that for every New World varietal, once I try their Old World counterpart I find the French, Italian, Spanish, German version to be vastly superior.

On the other hand, some of the innovative producers I've found in California, Oregon and Washington State are truly world-class. You just have to find them and I'm just scratching the surface. Maybe this exists in Australia. I don't know.
OK, phew! I don't think I'd like either of those things. I'm not a fan of oaky or sweet. Also, I'm not paying $40 for wine. I can get reasonably good wine at our liquor store for $15 and under. Other than that I have an open mind and can read labels so I'm all good!
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by DCComic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:52 pm

There are great, ok, mediocre and shit Aussie wines.

/thread
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by guruwil » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:54 am

snowgirl wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:42 pm
trixie wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:07 pm
Ha. There are few things I judge harshly -- one is super high alcohol, oaky wines that are ridiculously priced. See: Napa Cab, Orin Swift wines and anything from the Wagner family, including that abomination of a wine, Meiomi. Two is Rombauer chardonnay, AKA Cougar Juice. $40+ for sweet, overoaked chardonnay. Ugh.

But really, it's all about having an open mind and learning how to read lables. I've found that for every New World varietal, once I try their Old World counterpart I find the French, Italian, Spanish, German version to be vastly superior.

On the other hand, some of the innovative producers I've found in California, Oregon and Washington State are truly world-class. You just have to find them and I'm just scratching the surface. Maybe this exists in Australia. I don't know.
OK, phew! I don't think I'd like either of those things. I'm not a fan of oaky or sweet. Also, I'm not paying $40 for wine. I can get reasonably good wine at our liquor store for $15 and under. Other than that I have an open mind and can read labels so I'm all good!
There is a lot of misinformation and personal taste being put forward as fact on this thread by a number of people including Trixie. Some of this is probably excusable as I think it is true that people dont get regular exposure to the full range of what is produced in any country unless they visit and experience it for themselves . I certainly wouldnt be aware of the reality what is available from US/California if I didn’t regularly visit the US and drink wines there because they are very rare to find here. Some of what is being stated is out of date, Overall the Chardonnay from Australia has very much moved away from the heavy new oak that characterized it 15-20 years ago, although I’m sure you can still find it. A big rich Australian Shiraz is a thing of beauty to my taste, they do tend to higher alcohol (the alcohol is what carries the flavour by the way) and there is fruit in there but they are very very far from sweet but sure that is personal taste, I love the tropical fruit and grassy flavours (but also nothing like sweet) of NZ Sauvignon Blanc that others deride and find the Sancerre lacking in flavour in many cases. But these are things of personal taste not statement of unchallengeable quality or fact. You should buy and drink what you like and not what others tell you you should. To my taste overall the New world produces some of the finest wines available in a reasonable price range for regular drinking.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by lolasf » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:37 am

trixie wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:07 pm
On the other hand, some of the innovative producers I've found in California, Oregon and Washington State are truly world-class. You just have to find them and I'm just scratching the surface. Maybe this exists in Australia. I don't know.
I'm waiting for you to come down and visit me someday, we'll have crazy tasting adventures. I could learn so much! Despite being surrounded by it and drinking 'good' wine fairly frequently, I basically know shit about wine.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by trixie » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:11 am

Alcohol is flavor, but 14%? That's pushing it and almost no wine gets there naturally. Chapitalization gets it there. (which is adding sugar to boost alcohol levels) I never said fruit = sweet, and as a Beaujolais fan, I'd be the last one to say so. But I also know oak when I taste it. Oak should provide an oxygen exchange for the wine as it ages, not cover flaws and impart an overwhelming flavor.

I'm highly critical of California and to some degree Washington State wines, so no one should think I have some sort of nationalist approach to wine. I do love Oregon pinot noir, but I admit bias, since I've come to know so many of the growers and producers. I'm not sure it should be as expensive as it is, nor do I think it is Burgundy.

I believe strongly in limited intervention and good growing practices.

As for my knowledge, I literally think about wine every day. I taste 30-100 wines/week. I like some, I hate some, I can't remember most. I know the difference between a good wine and one I like. Shit, the wines I like barely move off the shelves because they are so weird and nerdy. But I can objectively tell when something uses too much oak, is chapitalized, is corked, oxidized, contains brettymyces, has voltalic acid or is just plain done.

And if I never have to taste another New Zealand Sauv Blanc, I'll live a fulfilled life. Sancerre or Savennieres any day. Minerality, citrus and a touch of salinity beat out cat pee and grapefruit.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by mad hatter » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:15 am

theres wine nerd and then the general public who want something tasty to drink.

But I am genuinely interested in learning more about the relative merits or otherwise of those items you mention above like chapitalisation.
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by guruwil » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:20 am

trixie wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:11 am
Alcohol is flavor, but 14%? That's pushing it and almost no wine gets there naturally. Chapitalization gets it there. (which is adding sugar to boost alcohol levels) I never said fruit = sweet, and as a Beaujolais fan, I'd be the last one to say so. But I also know oak when I taste it. Oak should provide an oxygen exchange for the wine as it ages, not cover flaws and impart an overwhelming flavor.

I'm highly critical of California and to some degree Washington State wines, so no one should think I have some sort of nationalist approach to wine. I do love Oregon pinot noir, but I admit bias, since I've come to know so many of the growers and producers. I'm not sure it should be as expensive as it is, nor do I think it is Burgundy.

I believe strongly in limited intervention and good growing practices.

As for my knowledge, I literally think about wine every day. I taste 30-100 wines/week. I like some, I hate some, I can't remember most. I know the difference between a good wine and one I like. Shit, the wines I like barely move off the shelves because they are so weird and nerdy. But I can objectively tell when something uses too much oak, is chapitalized, is corked, oxidized, contains brettymyces, has voltalic acid or is just plain done.

And if I never have to taste another New Zealand Sauv Blanc, I'll live a fulfilled life. Sancerre or Savennieres any day. Minerality, citrus and a touch of salinity beat out cat pee and grapefruit.
But that’s not true that it won’t get to 14% naturally, warm climate ripe picked Shiraz can easily make 14%+ without chaptalisation. As for oaky Chardonnay, I hate them and not a fan of Chardonnay at all, but the oak has definitely backed way off over the past 15 years or so. And I’m fine that you prefer Sancerre but that’s your personal taste, it’s not mine.
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judik wrote:Guruwil was right!!!
jono_in_adelaide wrote:I think Guru is right on this one
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:57 am

I'm fed up with NZ Sav Blancs too.

Just saying ...

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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by Iolar » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:51 pm

I hate them and not a fan of Chardonnay at all
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Re: Australian wine-Shit or not?

Post by mad hatter » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:41 pm

i like a good chardonnay and there is nothing wrong with a big malolactic oaky one if balanced well.
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