Biscuits and Gravy

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lolasf
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by lolasf » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:37 pm

I'm pretty sure I made Ben eat biscuits and gravy when he was here last, but I don't remember his reaction. That makes me think he was kinda 'fine whatever' rather than loving or hating it.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 pm

I have never made scones, but somebody in another thread said they typically have eggs in them. Biscuits don't. Think of it as like creamed chicken on toast. My understanding is that the idea of putting things on toast is not unknown to the English.

I don't understand why blander is necessarily better,, but then I am not English.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:30 pm

It's not gravy, EMG! It's a very thick white sauce.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:31 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 pm
I have never made scones, but somebody in another thread said they typically have eggs in them. Biscuits don't. Think of it as like creamed chicken on toast. My understanding is that the idea of putting things on toast is not unknown to the English.

I don't understand why blander is necessarily better,, but then I am not English.
Scones don't have egg in them. The person was wrong.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:32 pm

Thank you.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:53 pm

Not all flour based carbs are equal though, Vinny. Toast has an entirely different texture from a scone. There are things I'd have on toast that I'd never put on a plain scone. And vice versa. Some things work in a pastry case but not on bread. Even bread and toast have different partnerings.
I can imagine chicken in white sauce on toast. It wouldn't be anywhere near as claggy as on chicken and sauce on a scone type thing.
Likewise sausage flavouring a normal meat gravy would be unremarkable. But sausage flavour in white sauce seems wrong.
Last edited by leela on Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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section8
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:54 pm

While not universal, it appears egg is frequently an ingredient. The bigger difference between UK scone vs. US biscuit appears to be how the fat is incorporated.

http://www.geniuskitchen.com/recipe/rea ... nes-138760

https://www.rockrecipes.com/proper-english-scones/

https://www.christinascucina.com/britis ... ea-scones/

https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/english-scones
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:57 pm

Those links are to American recipes for English scones. I have never seen an English recipe that includes egg, other than as an egg wash for the tops before putting them in the oven
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:58 pm

US biscuits aren't scones.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:02 pm

What are US scones?
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by EMG » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:06 pm

leela wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:30 pm
It's not gravy, EMG! It's a very thick white sauce.
It's gravy. That's why it's called gravy.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:08 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:58 pm
US biscuits aren't scones.
I know. I was responding to LS's links referring to scones.

And even though biscuits aren't exactly like scones, my assertion that some things belong on bread but not on other flour based carb type things still stands.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12 pm

I'm not LS.

I've never had clotted cream. It sounds way more claggy and fatty than bechamel.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:27 pm

I'm not a fan of clotted cream on scones either. But claggy isn't quite the word I'd use for it. More buttery.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:34 pm

I don't think I have ever made sausage gravy, but next time you are in Baltimore I will make you biscuits and gravy, leela.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:35 pm

Based on the opinions in this thread, that is either a generous offer or a threat, Vinny.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:39 pm

section8 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:35 pm
Based on the opinions in this thread, that is either a generous offer or a threat, Vinny.
heh!

And thanks Vinny. I think.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by DianaHaddad » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:06 pm

That kind of food is so foreign to me. I'm sure you can get it in New England, but it's sure from another place. We eat blueberries, maple syrup, clam chowder, fiddlehead ferns, and stuff like that. I've never had biscuits and gravy, and they don't sound like they go well together.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:07 pm

How about creamed chipped beef on toast, Diana?

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by DianaHaddad » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:11 pm

Heard of it but also think it's weird and it sounds like something from a school cafeteria. Also would not eat.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by ben_hanscombe » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:07 am

lolasf wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:37 pm
I'm pretty sure I made Ben eat biscuits and gravy when he was here last, but I don't remember his reaction. That makes me think he was kinda 'fine whatever' rather than loving or hating it.
Pretty much. They were fine, but they were less tasty than my own order and since I had my work cut out just eating that, I left most of the biscuits and gravy.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by rezuar » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:09 am

This thread has been very inspiring to me, although I had to google pretty much every dish mentioned here.
Creamed tuna on rice seems delish.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:11 am

leela wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:27 pm
There's absolutely nothing in this thread that would induce me to eat biscuits and gravy. It sounds horribly claggy. And white sauce flavored with sausage meat? Really?

I'm not a fussy eater at all, but it sounds horrible.
Me. Either. I've tried grits. I could feel the pure carb turning into hip fat with every bite. I stopped after 3 forkfuls.

Who said scones have eggs in them? Heresy! Self raising flour, a little butter and milk is all. You rub the butter lightly through the flour, make a well, pour the milk into it and fold the milk in with a fork. Turn out on a floured board, knead very lightly, gently press out the dough, cut into squares or circles, bake in a hot oven. A proper scone is light and airy and requires a little butter and jam. Add thick whipped or clotted cream, if you must.

Savoury variations include cheese and pumpkin.

The idea of drowning it in white sauce and sausage meat, however it is flavoured, sounds disgusting. I wonder how you guys ended up with that one.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by EMG » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:36 am

temporaryhandle2 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:11 am
I wonder how you guys ended up with that one.
Good taste.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:40 am

Delusion is deep in the Sarf.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by guruwil » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:20 am

I keep trying them because some
People rave about them, I have never failed to be disappointed, it’s just stodge.

Also I’ve said this before but there are a range of recipes and textures for both biscuits and scones and there is crossover. They are similar concepts.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:30 pm

Yes, temp's scone recipe sounds exactly like biscuits. Scones in America are somehow different; maybe they have egg in them.

Temp, pure carb, which is what grits are until/unless you add butter to them, is less likely to turn into hip fat than carbs plus fat, which is what your scone recipe is.

I still wonder how similar US sausage meat is to UK/Australian sausage meat. The word sausage covers such a multitude of things that they might be nothing alike.

Rez, I think creamed tuna needs onion.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:45 pm

Vinny, based on your very brief description it sounds like the sausagemeat we would add to stuffing.

But, you really didn't give a lot to go on: fatty pork, highly seasoned, sage etc.

Then you went off rambling about the British banger.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:12 pm

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/gr ... rence-350g

Pork (84%), Water, Rice Flour, Gram Flour, Salt, Onion Powder, White Pepper, Maize Starch, Fresh Sage, Nutmeg, Sage, Preservative: Sodium Metabisulphite (Sulphites), Coriander, Antioxidant: Ascorbic Acid; Dextrose.
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section8
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:16 pm

Good biscuits and gravy is less stodgy than, say, pasta carbonara.
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Nines » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:38 pm

Mmmm....I grew up on biscuits and gravy. Well made sausage gravy is a thing of beauty. Like this:
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:46 pm

I will be surprised if that picture persuades anybody. It is not the world's most photogenic foodstuff.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Nines » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:49 pm

Yeah. It tastes a lot better than it looks.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:00 pm

No starch or flour in US sausage. Higher fat in general than in leela's British sausage. I have said here before that I have had "sausages" in the UK that would have to be labeled "Bread —flavored with sausage" here (and I have been assured that not al British sausages are like that).

USDA: Fresh pork sausage.
“Fresh Pork Sausage” is sausage prepared with fresh pork or frozen pork or both, but not including pork byproducts, and may contain Mechanically Separated (Species) in accordance with § 319.6, and may be seasoned with condimental substances as permitted under part 318 of this subchapter. The finished product shall not contain more than 50 percent fat. To facilitate chopping or mixing, water or ice may be used in an amount not to exceed 3 percent of the total ingredients used.

I think most US sausage is probably around 25% fat, at a guess. Even the sausage meat I get at the dollar store is well under 50%, I am pretty sure. But certainly more than 20%.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:03 pm

This popular brand is 23% fat. Less than 0.5% carbohydrate, as we expect meat to be here.

With all those carbs in your sausage, I can see why you might think mixing it with a flour-based white sauce and pouring it over a breadstuff might make for something stodgy.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:46 pm

If any anti-biscuitites end up in Anchorage, I will do as Vinny and make them biscuits and gravy. I'll even go as far as to make the sausage from scratch. You will all be like "Wow, this isn't as bad as I was expecting."
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:53 pm

section8 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:46 pm
"Wow, this isn't as bad as I was expecting."
Something every chef wants to hear.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:02 pm

Leela, do you all have white gravy of any kind? Basically it is like a white sauce where the fat would be a fat from the meet as opposed to butter; or do you only have what I would call "brown" gravy? If so, what do you tend to use as the thickening agent?
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:04 pm

I prefer to make my sausage with 20% fat. Anything less than that you tend to loose texture. I supposed that may be what the starches are used for in Leela list of ingredients.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:08 pm

Stan, we have brown gravy. Meat is the stock.

We have something called white/bread sauce.

You guys do realise you inherited most of your roast type meals / stodge foods from us?

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:17 pm

Thanks, do you know what is used to thicken the stock?

I find these kind of things interesting. We have a new person in the office who is originally from Poland. I was surprised to hear that he was unfamiliar with US style pies. I had thought that was an "old world" item, but either he just had limited exposure or I guess not as much old world as I had thought.

In the US in most restaurants you will mainly find brown gravy, but for more "country" style places white gravy would not be unusual and almost demanded for some items like biscuits and gravy and chicken fried steak. I don't know if this arose because milk was more available than stock or not. Basically you take the drippings from whatever meat, make a flour roux and stir in milk. In my opinion is almost always contains a healthy amount of black pepper.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:45 pm

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:08 pm
Stan, we have brown gravy. Meat is the stock.

We have something called white/bread sauce.

You guys do realise you inherited most of your roast type meals / stodge foods from us?
I would be surprised if bechamel, veloute, and espagnole were not common in the UK, even if not indigenous.

I think German cuisine has a much greater influence on US "home style" cooking than British.
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:49 pm

I think German cuisine has a much greater influence on US "home style" cooking than British.
Yes.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:55 pm

I'm talking about dinners you have at Thanksgiving etc

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by cowtown » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm

I had Easter brunch at a Michelin Stared restaurant (gasp) and they had biscuits and rabbit gravy on the menu (the horror)

Which begs, why do upscale places always put a rabbit dish on their menus for Easter? If it’s to discourage bringing kids then cool
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:05 pm

Stephen: Thanksgiving is mostly foods native to North and South America: Turkey, cranberries, corn, sweet potatoes, pumpkin, wild rice, etc. In Baltimore sauerkraut is a must, not native American but considered German by many people.

My Christmas dinner is very mitteleuropäisch; goose stuffed with parsnips, Himmel und Erde, prunes and chestnuts, red cabbage, kasha, etc.

Having said that, I learned recently that the wild turkeys we have around here are not indigenous to these parts. Turkeys went from Mexico to Spain to England to the American colonies, and some escaped and thrived in the wild.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:06 pm

I made a rabbit fricasee for Easter brunch a couple of years ago.

Until IKEA stopped selling thinly sliced smoked reindeer, I always had that among the hors d'oeuvre at Christmas.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:09 pm

Vinny do you think potatoes are native to Ireland?

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:16 pm

I make standing rib roast with yorkshire pudding once in a while. Most people I serve it to don't know what YP is until I introduce it to them.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:19 pm

Potatoes are native to the Americas, stephen, like most of the Thanksgiving menu here.

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