Biscuits and Gravy

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Scrubb
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Scrubb » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:23 pm

Mr_S's Mennonite family make white gravy to go with their verenyke (sp?) and sausage. They call it cream gravy and I'm not sure they actually thicken it at all. After frying the sausage they just add some cream to the pan and stir up all the stuff from the bottom of the pan into it, and reduce it a bit. Maybe they add a smidge of flour but it's not as thick as an actual white sauce usually is.

Most of their cuisine is quite Ukrainian but some bits are probably residual from before their flight east from the Austria/Germany/Holland parts of Europe. Perhaps the cream gravy comes from there?
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:45 pm

Well thanks for giving us that fizzy brown liquid, eating food from a bucket and Hamburgers

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:04 pm

Anyone know if cream gravy or white gravy is common in German cooking? I would agree about German food influence, particularly in my family.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:09 pm

Yes, cream based sauces are used in German cuisine (and most continental cuisines for that matter - Bechamel is one of the five mother sauces).

My favorite dish at the local German restaurant is rahmschnitzel - fried pork cutlet with mushroom cream sauce.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by cowtown » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:16 pm

^
and also a lot of dill /cream sauces
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:25 pm

Three German recipes for rabbit in cream sauce, although the first one (with sour cream and paprika) sounds more Hungarian to me.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:26 pm

We all know your Krauts underneath the surface already.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:43 pm

Stan In Maryland wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:02 pm
Leela, do you all have white gravy of any kind? Basically it is like a white sauce where the fat would be a fat from the meet as opposed to butter; or do you only have what I would call "brown" gravy? If so, what do you tend to use as the thickening agent?
No. I've never come across a meat gravy made with milk. Our gravy is brown, made with the fat and juices from the meat, stock, and either flour and gravy browning or something like this, which combines the browning and thickener:

http://www.bisto.co.uk/our-range/gravy- ... avy-powder
(Not to be confused with instant gravy granules which are awful)
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:47 pm

The vereniky are certainly Ukrainian, so I suspect that the sauce that goes with them is too. Here is a recipe for cheese-filled vereniky with a sauce along the lines of sausage gravy, but with cubed ham instead of sausage.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:08 pm

My fav German places does a jaeger schnitzel but the sauce (gravy) is brown. So perhaps it is our German roots instead of English.

I certainly am German by descent. My mom still have enough German in her that when she gets really mad she says "ach himmel.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by cowtown » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:15 pm

leela wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:43 pm
Stan In Maryland wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:02 pm
Leela, do you all have white gravy of any kind? Basically it is like a white sauce where the fat would be a fat from the meet as opposed to butter; or do you only have what I would call "brown" gravy? If so, what do you tend to use as the thickening agent?
No. I've never come across a meat gravy made with milk. Our gravy is brown, made with the fat and juices from the meat, stock, and either flour and gravy browning or something like this, which combines the browning and thickener:

http://www.bisto.co.uk/our-range/gravy- ... avy-powder
(Not to be confused with instant gravy granules which are awful)
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:26 pm

Sunday gravy is a good gravy.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:29 pm

yes, we didn't even talk about red gravy.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:32 pm

Somebody mentioned red-eye gravy way back there.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:57 pm

Red-eye gravy is not the same thing as Sunday/red gravy.
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:58 pm

I’ve never had red-eye gravy I thought was particularly delicious. I will still order it when I see it on a menu even though that is probably futile.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:08 pm

cowtown wrote:
leela wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:43 pm
Stan In Maryland wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:02 pm
Leela, do you all have white gravy of any kind? Basically it is like a white sauce where the fat would be a fat from the meet as opposed to butter; or do you only have what I would call "brown" gravy? If so, what do you tend to use as the thickening agent?
No. I've never come across a meat gravy made with milk. Our gravy is brown, made with the fat and juices from the meat, stock, and either flour and gravy browning or something like this, which combines the browning and thickener:

http://www.bisto.co.uk/our-range/gravy- ... avy-powder
(Not to be confused with instant gravy granules which are awful)
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Hey! I was just answering his question! To be Vinny, you have to answer a question that nobody asked.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 pm

I had to look up red gravy. I have heard that called just gravy, but the terms red gravy and Sunday gravy were new to me.

The explanation that I once read is that in Italian "salsa" never has meat in it. The word for a tomato sauce that included meat would be ragú. So it seemed wrong to Italian immigrants and their children to refer to a tomato sauce with meat as "sauce". The English word they learned for a sauce with meat was "gravy" so that is what they used to translate ragú.

(Thus confirming what leela just said.)

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:14 pm

Leela just mugged you right off!

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:16 pm

She is not Wrong on the internet about that.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:10 am

Excooooose me!

None of these things of which you speak are gravy.

They are sauces.

And I don't care what any of you odd people say.

Putting sauce on scones is just wrong.

Thank you. Please carry on.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:13 am

We don't put sauces on scones. We do put gravy on biscuits, and we sometimes cook dumplings in stews.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:21 am

I am sorry, Vinny, but different nomenclature does not make an abomination acceptable.

I sincerely hope that helps.

If you ever get down here, I will make you some proper food. You will never want to return to this dreadful 19th century mitteleuropean stodge you endure now.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:24 am

Gravy is a sauce that gets its start in a used cooking pan (fat, scorched bits, juice. Etc.). Sausage gravy is bechamel sauce and a gravy at the same time. It is a truly amazing substance.

in my googlings around this topic I have learned that sauces became popular in Europe as a way to mask the flavor of the meat since it was often in some state of decomposition when people were eating it.

I have learned that UK scones are very similar to IS biscuits but US scones are some very different to either.
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:26 am

I am not British. I am Australian.

I'll cook for you too, section 8.

Leave Europe behind! Come to Australia! Fresh food! No stodge! Green leafy vegetable all year round!

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by sieve » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:45 am

I made biscuits and gravy last weekend. Breakfast sausage with sage, homemade buttermilk biscuits, gravy made with milk, leaving the sausage in and the secret ingredients are poultry seasoning, nutmeg, worchestershire sauce and a dash of homemade habanero sauce.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by northern_goddess » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:24 am

What exactly is stodge?
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by section8 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:45 am

Some sort of British beverage I think.
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:48 am

northern_goddess wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:24 am
What exactly is stodge?
Heavy food, rich in high GI carbohydrates and fat. Lack of fresh vegetables, using lots of flour, heavy dairy products.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by northern_goddess » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:45 am

Thanks, temp. I figured that I understood the concept but also wondered if it was based on an actual food/dish that was called stodge. Like a type of porridge or something.

haha, s8. You never disappoint.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by DianaHaddad » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:22 am

Do we use the word "stodge" in the US? Stodgy is common enough, but I think it's only on the Stew that I see the noun.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:21 am

L don't think so. "Claggy" is not really US English either.
in my googlings around this topic I have learned that sauces became popular in Europe as a way to mask the flavor of the meat since it was often in some state of decomposition when people were eating it.
People say that that is why spices were valued also. It's nonsense in either case. You can't hide the flavor of rotten meat, and why would people have been eating rotten meat?

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by mad hatter » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:22 am

VinnyD wrote:L don't think so. "Claggy" is not really US English either.
in my googlings around this topic I have learned that sauces became popular in Europe as a way to mask the flavor of the meat since it was often in some state of decomposition when people were eating it.
People say that that is why spices were valued also. It's nonsense in either case. You can't hide the flavor of rotten meat, and why would people have been eating rotten meat?
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:37 am

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:03 pm

People who don't have fridges kill their meat in the winter and eat it up quickly, or cure it. Find me a culture that eats rotten meat, even with sauce and spices.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:38 pm

Vinny, I think depending how you define rotten many cultures eat meats that are buried in the ground or stored in containers that allow them to ferment, which I guess you can consider "preserving" but I think for many people would be a form of rotting. While I have eaten some forms of fermented vegetables and consumed some fermented grains, I don't recall that I have had one of the meat delicacies.

You can call it what you will, if something is buried in the ground and left there for an extended period of time I think you have to accept that is has gone through some decomposition, commonly known as rotting.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:19 pm

Peiople who eat fermented meat like the taste. They don't feel the need to hide the taste with sauces and spices. The idea that medieval people ate rotten meat and disguised the taste with spices and sauces is a modern myth.

The Burmese put a thick black sauce made of fermented fish on almost everything. The LP guidebook described the fish as having been "preserved by rotting." My reaction was "Hey, wait a minute."
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by northern_goddess » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:31 pm

DianaHaddad wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:22 am
Do we use the word "stodge" in the US? Stodgy is common enough, but I think it's only on the Stew that I see the noun.
Or, as Vinny mentioned, "claggy". I get the gist of them but it's always interesting to know if there's a more specific meaning.

As you mentioned, Diana, we might say "stodgy" here too but would probably be meant to describe a person.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:00 pm

I think you mean stocky.

For reference we would call adding cheese and gravy to chips 'stodgy'

As in only something someone wanting comfort in a cold climate, a fat body, or a pisshead at 2am would eat.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:51 pm

"Stodgy"" hear means stick-in-the-mud, too conservative, maybe with overtones of pompousness.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by DianaHaddad » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:51 pm

No, Miggs is right that stodgy is used for people here. “A stodgy old man” etc.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by DianaHaddad » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:53 pm

(Cross posted with Vinny. My phone doesn’t let me see those “another person has posted while you were composing your post” messages.)
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Iolar » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:29 pm

Come to Australia! Fresh food! No stodge!
You don't think pies and sausage rolls are stodgy?
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Shavenhead » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:35 pm

I just googled.

Looks a bit like vomit.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:41 pm

Iolar wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:29 pm
Come to Australia! Fresh food! No stodge!
You don't think pies and sausage rolls are stodgy?
She thinks that carbs plus fat are less fattening than carbs alone, so she may well think that, yes.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by mad hatter » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:05 pm

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:Vinny has never had to live through a zombie apocalypse
Arguable incorrect given Team Trumps reign of doh!
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by leela » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:11 pm

Claggy isn't an oft used word. I don't think ben had heard it before, when I first used it in his company. But I think it's invaluable for describing... claggy things.

I never realised stodge/stodgy wasn't a thing in US language. I've learned something new.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by Stan In Maryland » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:52 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:03 pm
Find me a culture that eats rotten meat, even with sauce and spices.
Vinny, this is your comment that was responding to.
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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:59 pm

Fair enough then.

But the main point, that people in medieval Europe never used sauces and spices to hide the taste of rotten meat, is still valid.

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Re: Biscuits and Gravy

Post by VinnyD » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:03 pm

The noun "stodge" seems to be a back-formation from the adjective "stodgy", which derived (first recorded 1823) from a verb "stodge" (17th century) meaning to stuff, satiate. "Stodge" the noun seems to be fairly recent. Further research is indicated. But further research would require climbing stairs, and I have just poured a glass of wine, so all you eager minds thirsting for knowledge will have to wait.

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