The Gaza tunnels

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NorthAmerican
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The Gaza tunnels

Post by NorthAmerican » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:49 pm

Almost every post on the topic of the current Gaza war includes references to tunnels being used by terrorists to enter Israel. These questions may expose my ignorance on the subject, but they are intended as serious questions:

How many tunnels are there? An approximation, please, if not the actual number.
How many of those tunnels lead into Israel?
Does the Israeli government know where these tunnels enter the country?
Could the Israelis not bomb or shell the tunnel exits, thus destroying their usefulness as entry points for terrorists?

It seems simpler to me, and certainly far less costly in terms of lives lost, to destroy the tunnels' exits into Israel than to fire a barrage of artillery shells into Gaza. Granted, this doesn't address the issue of rockets fired by Hamas, but it isn't intended to. I only wonder why the Israelis have not taken the step of closing one end of the tunnels. Maybe they have, and I am ignorant of the fact, but because the tunnels are almost invariably mentioned in just about every post on the current fighting, I think that they must still be there, unsealed.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by polardude1 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:26 pm

How many tunnels are there? An approximation, please, if not the actual number.
How many of those tunnels lead into Israel?
Does the Israeli government know where these tunnels enter the country?
Could the Israelis not bomb or shell the tunnel exits, thus destroying their usefulness as entry points for terrorists?

It seems simpler to me, and certainly far less costly in terms of lives lost, to destroy the tunnels' exits into Israel than to fire a barrage of artillery shells into Gaza. Granted, this doesn't address the issue of rockets fired by Hamas, but it isn't intended to. I only wonder why the Israelis have not taken the step of closing one end of the tunnels. Maybe they have, and I am ignorant of the fact, but because the tunnels are almost invariably mentioned in just about every post on the current fighting, I think that they must still be there, unsealed.


Sealed tunnels can be unsealed. But on your question abot artilery shell. They were directed at lcoations Israel was taking fire.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by eric84 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:42 am

Destroyed tunnels can also be rebuilt.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by polardude1 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:58 am

Destroyed tunnels can also be rebuilt.


That would invite a return visit.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by eric84 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:17 am

Like the last two times, you mean?
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by polardude1 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:24 am

It is quite tragic that hamas seized control of Gaza. It could have been much difference but….

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html
If they took advantage of the Israeli withdrawal to peacefully develop Gaza, the international community and the Israelis would see that what was working in Gaza could also be applied to the West Bank. However, I then asked rhetorically: If Palestinians instead turn Gaza into a platform for attacks against Israel, who is going to favor an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and the creation of a Palestinian state?

Much of Palestinians’ history might have been imposed on them by others, I said. But this time they had the power to shape their future. If they made the wrong choice, they could not blame the Arabs, the Europeans, the Americans — or the Israelis.


Israel did not withdraw from Gaza with the intent to go in there every 2 years.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by NorthAmerican » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:26 am

polardude1 wrote:It is quite tragic that hamas seized control of Gaza. It could have been much difference but….

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html
Thanks for the link. Ross answered one of my questions; he writes of Israel "having destroyed the tunnels," so that mission seems to have been accomplished.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by polardude1 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:48 am

The next step in Gaza is to make Hamas and their mission insignificant. That will have to involve finding a way to bypass Hamas and make life better in Gaza. if given the chance, there is plenty of opportunity to make Gaza into a good place to live.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by NorthAmerican » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:32 pm

What surprised me about that article was the author's statement that Hamas is nearly broke. If the West can impose sanctions on Russia in response to its actions in Ukraine, why can't it choke off the funds that are propping up Hamas? That would seem to be a big first step toward stopping the violence.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by polardude1 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:43 pm

What surprised me about that article was the author's statement that Hamas is nearly broke
.
This where a David Brooks column comes into to play. He suggested this latest was against Israel was really Hama's way fo lashing out at Egypt. By closing their smugglnig tunnles into Egypt, Hama's $1/2 billion dollar business was cut off.

Hamas is hurting and this nmight be an opportunity to put even more hurt into them

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/opini ... inion&_r=0
Look at how the current fighting in Gaza got stoked. Authoritarians and Islamists have been waging a fight for control of Egypt. After the Arab Spring, the Islamists briefly gained the upper hand. But when the Muslim Brotherhood government fell, the military leaders cracked down. They sentenced hundreds of the Brotherhood’s leadership class to death. They also closed roughly 95 percent of the tunnels that connected Egypt to Gaza, where the Brotherhood’s offshoot, Hamas, had gained power.

As intended, the Egyptian move was economically devastating to Hamas. Hamas derived 40 percent of its tax revenue from tariffs on goods that flowed through those tunnels. One economist estimated the economic losses at $460 million a year, nearly a fifth of the Gazan G.D.P.
Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story
Hamas needed to end that blockade, but it couldn’t strike Egypt, so it struck Israel. If Hamas could emerge as the heroic fighter in a death match against the Jewish state, if Arab TV screens were filled with dead Palestinian civilians, then public outrage would force Egypt to lift the blockade. Civilian casualties were part of the point. When Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy chief of the Hamas political bureau, dismissed a plea for a cease-fire, he asked a rhetorical question, “What are 200 martyrs compared with lifting the siege?”
The eminent Israeli journalist Avi Issacharoff summarized the strategy in The Times of Israel, “Make no mistake, Hamas remains committed to the destruction of Israel. But Hamas is firing rockets at Tel Aviv and sending terrorists through tunnels into southern Israel while aiming, in essence, at Cairo.”

This whole conflict has the feel of a proxy war. Turkey and Qatar are backing Hamas in the hopes of getting the upper hand in their regional rivalry with Egypt and Saudi Arabia. The Egyptians and even the Saudis are surreptitiously backing or rooting for the Israelis, in hopes that the Israeli force will weaken Hamas.
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Re: The Gaza tunnels

Post by chimes » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:23 pm

.
Wish you'd all be able to understand Dutch. (Which you don't, afaik).

I've listened to a live documentary on Dutch Radio 1 this afternoon, made by a Dutch journalist who indeed visited also the Gaza Tunnels.



I had grown used to Israelis, who beat & force & torture the CRAP out of their fellow human beings.

Which was a true advantage - for me - when listening to this broadcast.

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