England whitewash Australia 5-0

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England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Lincoln » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:40 pm

5-0 you bums.

Your boys got a thorough beating for the 5th time in a row...utterly hammered.

Hang your heads in shame you smelly criminals.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:54 pm

Do you think the Aussies cheated?

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Shavenhead » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Sorry Lincs, does this mean that within the space of ten days Australia have been whitewashed in cricket, lost one football WC game, and lost two rugby internationals?
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:29 pm

England must be in with a shout for having the best current one dayer batting line up

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:31 pm

And Stokes isn't even playing!

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:19 pm

For other people who are wondering:

Cricket. "But 5-0 can't be a cricket score!" you say. Apparently they play five one-day matches (and England won them all). I am not sure of the advantage of that over playing one traditional match, which can take five days.

I also don't quite understand why they kept playing after the winner had been determined at the close of Day 3. It seems like it would be the equivalent of having the home team come to bat in the bottom of the ninth inning even though it was leading after the third out of the top half (baseball reference).

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:25 pm

Vinnyd really wants to understand cricket, so he can defeat us.

I'm really enjoying this.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Shavenhead » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:31 pm

Vinny, the last test series Australia played in (2 full innings unlimited overs - can last up to 5 days per test match), was against South Africa earlier this year. Despite a concerted effort to cheat involving a deliberate plan hatched by the coach, captain and senior members of the team, Australia was hammered 4 - 1 in that series as well.

I guess we can conclude that despite their best efforts (including cheating), Australia are not very good at cricket.

While we're on the subject of test series, you also get test series in rugby too - usually a series of three matches. For example, England just lost a rugby test series 2-1, to you guessed it - South Africa.


I know how much you like facts, so it should be noted that England have never won a rugby test series in South Africa.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:35 pm

They did win the last cricket series in South Africa though

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Lincoln » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:45 pm

Shavenhead wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:55 pm
Sorry Lincs, does this mean that within the space of ten days Australia have been whitewashed in cricket, lost one football WC game, and lost two rugby internationals?
I think it does Shaven...yes.

Its the end for our antipodean cousins.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:16 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:19 pm
For other people who are wondering:

Cricket. "But 5-0 can't be a cricket score!" you say. Apparently they play five one-day matches (and England won them all). I am not sure of the advantage of that over playing one traditional match, which can take five days.

I also don't quite understand why they kept playing after the winner had been determined at the close of Day 3. It seems like it would be the equivalent of having the home team come to bat in the bottom of the ninth inning even though it was leading after the third out of the top half (baseball reference).
Maybe you could be knitting a jumper somewhere else?
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by andybox » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:44 pm

Reminds me of the Ashes and 1 day series a few years back. 9-1, quite the beating. Plus I won 50 quid off Lincs, and had the pleasure of Shunter calling Australia's team "shit".
Anyway, well done England, at least you can bask in the glory of beating a team of newbies.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:12 am

Vin, a clue was in the thread title. A whitewash is winning every game in a series.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:55 pm

In the US we would call that a sweep. So not that much of a clue to people from the world's largest English-speaking nation.

Aside from the fact that for all I know there are five-game series in field hockey, badminton, etc.

Why do they keep playing once the winner of the series has been decided?

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:48 pm

1.2 billion Indians would know what it meant, plus another half-billion Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Etc.

The length of a one-day series is not always the same.

They played all the games because many, many thousands of people had bought tickets, it's a major social and sporting occasion in the places where they played (in this case London, Cardiff, Nottingham, Durham, Manchester), because TV and radio rights have been sold.

But mainly because winning the series isn't especially important.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:50 pm

Of course it's not important. It's only a game.
The length of a one-day series is not always the same.
So?

I am not sure that you are right that the entire population of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are literate in English.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:04 pm

India uses a great many English loan-words, and I have little doubt that their cricket commentators introduce new ones all the time. The same applies in Pakistan and while I don't know about Bangladesh, since their gaining of Test status I imagine that cricket commentators are pretty influential there as well.

If you agree it isn't important, why be surprised that they play-out the series?
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:03 pm

I am still not convinced that you are right that the evryone in the population of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, whether or not of school age, is literate in English.
The length on a one-day series is not always the same.
So? How does that rule out the possibility that a 5-0 whitewash referred to some game other than cricket?

In North America, if two teams are playing a best of five playoff series, the series ends when one team has won three games. People who bought tickets for game four or five (knowing that they might not happen) have their money refunded. Similarly with best of seven series.

This does not apply if two teams meet for a series of three (e.g. baseball) games during the regular season, where the overall record of each team at the end of the season will matter. But I am assuming that this five-game series is more of a one-off, not an episode in a season in which the total games wither side wins against each other and against a number of other teams will be totaled.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:44 pm

If cricket couldn't get any more boring...

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by shunter » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:55 pm

Why is vinny having this conversation and why are people responding to the cunt?
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:53 pm

I came into the thread because I thought that other people might, like me, wonder what sport was being talked about, and I thought I would save them googling. Then I answered a question I thought they would probably have once they knew it was cricket, and explained that I couldn't answer another likely question. I really thought I had made that clear in the post.

You would have to ask the people who responded why they responded.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:44 am

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:03 pm
I am still not convinced that you are right that the evryone in the population of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, whether or not of school age, is literate in English.
I didn't claim that they were all literate in English, just as you didn't claim that everyone in the US is literate in English.

For a start, you don't need to be literate to pick up words from TV and radio sport commentary.

International cricket series, especially Test series but it can be for ODIs as well, are usually called 'tours'. This is because the visiting team literally tours the country. When teams got to the other country by boat and travelled within it by train, this really did resemble tourism in the old sense. They got civic receptions, sometimes balls and so on.

You would not cancel matches just because the Ashes (say) had been won or lost.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:19 am

(Tour and tournament/tourney are related, but tournament lost its literal meaning of going around early.)
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:56 am

(An interesting example of a boomeranged loan-word in India is that the sports pages of a newspaper might refer to "pundits" predicting, say, the winner of a horse race, but the news pages will use "pandit" in its original Hindi sense.) (Pandit and Pundit are pronounced similarly.)
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Lincoln » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:29 am

Also it's worth mentioning that in cricket from a players prospective there isn't really such a thing as a "Dead rubber" game, as an ex player I can assure you that on the day it's the game that counts...regardless of league positions/ stage of cup run...it's 11 vs 11 in that moment....quite Zen-like really.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:01 am

Flobster! wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:44 am
VinnyD wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:03 pm
I am still not convinced that you are right that the evryone in the population of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, whether or not of school age, is literate in English.
I didn't claim that they were all literate in English, just as you didn't claim that everyone in the US is literate in English.

For a start, you don't need to be literate to pick up words from TV and radio sport commentary.

International cricket series, especially Test series but it can be for ODIs as well, are usually called 'tours'. This is because the visiting team literally tours the country. When teams got to the other country by boat and travelled within it by train, this really did resemble tourism in the old sense. They got civic receptions, sometimes balls and so on.

You would not cancel matches just because the Ashes (say) had been won or lost.
Your claim was that unlike me and other USAnians, they could have understood the header to this thread. Unless you think they all have software that can read to them, that implies literacy in English.

Non-rhetorical question. As I understand it, in a Test or similar match, each side is scheduled to come to bat twice. Suppose after the side that batted first has had its second innings, the side that batted second is in the lead, i.e. the outcome of the match has already been decided. Does the team that batted second nevertheless come to bat for a second time, just to widen the margin? Is attendance on that day or days as high as it would have been if the outcome was in doubt?

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Lincoln » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:07 am

VinnyD wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:01 am
Flobster! wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:44 am


Non-rhetorical question. As I understand it, in a Test or similar match, each side is scheduled to come to bat twice. Suppose after the side that batted first has had its second innings, the side that batted second is in the lead, i.e. the outcome of the match has already been decided. Does the team that batted second nevertheless come to bat for a second time, just to widen the margin? Is attendance on that day or days as high as it would have been if the outcome was in doubt?
No,the game is over and won by the team batting second...no point in batting again, the game is finished.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:11 am

That makes perfect sense, Lincoln.

Thanks.

What happens to people who bought tickets for the fifth day? Flobster seemed to think the fact that tickets had been sold would justify continuing play in similar circumstances.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Lincoln » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:20 am

Day 5 tickets are always a gamble but you'd get your money back....similarly if you were there on day 4 or any other day for that matter and the game was finishing early then you'd get a tierd proportion of your ticket money back if theres been less than 20 overs bowled...anything over that you get nada.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:41 am

Conversely, a day 5 that looks like it will be short (eg a team needs only score a few runs or take a few wickets to win) is traditionally free at some (most?) grounds.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:47 am

Day 5 tickets are always a gamble but you'd get your money back
That is how it works with best-of-three or best-of-five series in baseball and I believe other North American sports (basketball, ice hockey).

And that is what I was suggesting would make sense to me when one side has won the first three matches of a five game series of one-day matches.

There really isn't an equivalent to short days in baseball. The nearest equivalent would be a game that is rained out, where you get a "rain check", which can be exchanged for a ticket to another game, if the rain stops play before the game can count as offical.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Lincoln » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:05 am

Flobster! wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:41 am
Conversely, a day 5 that looks like it will be short (eg a team needs only score a few runs or take a few wickets to win) is traditionally free at some (most?) grounds.
Thats true Flobby...i've noticed recently in the last few years that test grounds will offer dirt cheap tickets for the final couple of days...stuff like £10 for adults £5 for kids....its a wise move.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:21 am

I was at the MCG for free on day 5 in 1982 with Australia on 9-fer needing 35 to win. Thompson and Border.

The match could have been over first ball or any ball but it went on for quite a while.

It was great. We applauded every dot ball and went wild over every run. Then fucking Botham got Thommo 4 runs shy.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by andybox » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:24 am

Wasn’t that Brisbane?

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:40 am

Nope.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:41 am

Brisbane was the tied test v WI.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:26 pm

What is a dot ball?

Never mind, I looked it up.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Moethebartender » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:33 pm

VD is determined to VD this conversation into the ground. It's a full time job for him.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Iolar » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:28 pm

Congratulations everyone! You've made cricket even more boring!
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Geoffers » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:14 am

Vinny, the lingua franca of India is English. Not all Indians speak or understand it, but it's more widely used than any other language. Hindi has large numbers of speakers, but it's shunned by many speakers of other languages, especially in the South. So a speaker of Malayalam for example will converse with a Tamil, Gujarati, or Hindi speaker in English.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:15 pm

Did I say something that led you to believe that I didn't know that, Geoffers?

About 12§ of the Indian population speaks English, the internet tells me. How many of them could read and understand the word "whitewash" as used in the header is not easy to find out. But it can't be any more than that. It certainly is not 100% of the population of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Wellpisser » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:53 am

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:50 pm
Of course it's not important. It's only a game.
The length of a one-day series is not always the same.
So?

I am not sure that you are right that the entire population of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are literate in English.
I’m not sure that the entire population of the United States is literate in English however English is an official language of India which makes India the largest English speaking nation.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Wellpisser » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:54 am

Flobster! wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:04 pm
India uses a great many English loan-words, and I have little doubt that their cricket commentators introduce new ones all the time. The same applies in Pakistan and while I don't know about Bangladesh, since their gaining of Test status I imagine that cricket commentators are pretty influential there as well.

If you agree it isn't important, why be surprised that they play-out the series?
Idiot-India uses the English language

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Wellpisser » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:56 am

VinnyD wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:47 am
Day 5 tickets are always a gamble but you'd get your money back
That is how it works with best-of-three or best-of-five series in baseball and I believe other North American sports (basketball, ice hockey).

And that is what I was suggesting would make sense to me when one side has won the first three matches of a five game series of one-day matches.

There really isn't an equivalent to short days in baseball. The nearest equivalent would be a game that is rained out, where you get a "rain check", which can be exchanged for a ticket to another game, if the rain stops play before the game can count as offical.
Because ranking points come from the scores in each game and also because people want to watch cricket

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Wellpisser » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:58 am

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:15 pm
Did I say something that led you to believe that I didn't know that, Geoffers?

About 12§ of the Indian population speaks English, the internet tells me. How many of them could read and understand the word "whitewash" as used in the header is not easy to find out. But it can't be any more than that. It certainly is not 100% of the population of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
Cricket is the #1 sport in India and the term “whitewash” is used except when India win when the term “brownwash” is used. Cricket players in Hong Kong also use the word “chinaman”

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:09 am

Because ranking points come from the scores in each game
See, that is an actual explanation of what I said I didn't understand. (“I also don't quite understand why they kept playing after the winner had been determined at the close of Day 3.") I didn't know there were rankings of national cricket teams. That makes it more like a three-game series between two teams during the baseball season (where the number of games you won during the season will determine whether or not you get into the playoffs) than like a best of five or best of seven series during the playoffs.

Are the rankings continuous? Or is there some point during the year where that year closes and the number-one ranked country at that point is proclaimed the world champion for that year?
people want to watch cricket
But that would also apply to the last day of a Test Match in which the second team to bat was leading after the second innings of the first team to bat. The point about the international rankings is all you needed. I don't know why nobody else mentioned that.

Everything you said about language was irrelevant to the silly argument between Flobster and me over whether I should have known what sport was referenced in the header.

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:49 am

Ranking points are a recent innovation. Every game of every series has always been played, DV.

England and Australia play 5 tests against each every two years, but that's more frequently and a longer series than either country plays other countries. If it has been 3 or more years since we played, say, Pakistan and we're only playing 3 tests, we'll want to actually play all 3, even if we lose the first 2.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:51 am

So not really an explanation then. (But that they're new makes me feel better about never having heard of them before. Thanks.)

Are the rankings continuous? Or is there some point during the year where that year closes and the number-one ranked country at that point is proclaimed the world champion for that year? (And then everyone starts over from zero.)

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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by Flobster! » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 am

See above. Rankings are new.

The reason a 4th innings or whatever isn't played after a match has been decided is because the Laws of cricket stipulate when a game ends. A team winning ends the game.
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Re: England whitewash Australia 5-0

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:10 pm

You mean they are new this year and it hasn't yet been decided whether they will be continuous or will be final for the year at some point, a champion proclaimed, and the rankings reset at zero? I would have exoected that to be decided before they started oublishing rankings.

Presumably the laws of cricket were changed to allow for one-day matches. If people want to keep watching a five-game series after the winner of the series has been determined, perhaps they would also want always to watch a fourth innings. The laws could be changed to allow them that pleasure.

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