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i_have_shiny_shoes
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Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:19 pm

Pretty cool site. Anyone want to make sure it runs properly, is updated on a consistent basis, and possibly dedicate their life to Political Stew without getting paid for it?

Didn't think so.


Actually Scottie, on that note, a lot of the content would have updated itself automatically through feeds from other sites with which partnerships were being set up, and invites were being sought for original content to be written article-wise. (I had a British MP pretty much lined up to provide a monthly run-down on events in Parliament/the Committees on which he sits, as he loved the idea and thought it would be a great way to communicate with people)

Had it all worked out properly, and the site been in the position to generate paid-for advertising, any kind of profits would have been donated to charities/not-for-profits at the Stew's behest.


While some people may sneer at the 'Task Force' (awful name, I agree), some of the ideas it generated would still be of use now, regardless of how well the Stew is functioning at the moment.
Last edited by i_have_shiny_shoes on Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

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Post by Epicurus » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:22 pm

a more measured sequence of events could probably be something like this:

Lack of new members and persistant feuding created a demand for change.

Some people took the initiative to try to change things

They came up with some well-intentioned plans that never came to be because there are two opposing views on how the forum should be run - a rules based one with consistent moderation or a very loosely moderated one. If the plans of the task force had general consensus they would have been implemented but they neither had this nor sought it. They took the mandate to do something about the lack of membership and the feuding as approval for what they were doing, I think they misinterpreted what people meant by change.

The two camps clashed, the task force plans were never presented so people were never given a choice to decide. If the task force really thought their plans were what people wanted the document IHSS refers to above should have been public and a real argument made on how to go forward. This never happened.

Things moved on, the feuding was controlled to a greater extent, the current mod team got the measure of the place and the balance right, through luck, we recently increased membership.

Things worked out just fine. We got increased membership, through luck, recently. What's to be upset about?

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Post by justinian » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:23 pm

(I had a British MP pretty much lined up to provide a monthly run-down on events in Parliament/the Committees on which he sits, as he loved the idea and thought it would be a great way to communicate with people)


Unless he was willing to open himself up to something similar to PMQ - then I don't know how entertaining that would be.
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Post by muthafunky » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:25 pm

He did more than his share.
Getting it going again would be Daejns job, as admin of this site.
That means the timeline is 'never..


To be fair, I don't see why this is his job at all. The last Task Force was a group of volunteers for that specific task, not the admin(s) or mods at the time.

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Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:25 pm

Unless he was willing to open himself up to something similar to PMQ - then I don't know how entertaining that would be.


He's fairly well-known for his irreverent views and satirical eye on political events in the UK - it wouldn't have been 'dry', if that's what you're thinking. Even then, it may not have been entertaining for you, per se, but 50% of this site isn't American, and people may still have found it interesting, as well as spurring some debate and drawing in new people from other sites who found a forum which had an MP providing exclusive content.
we're discussing it, so it's not secret.

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Post by muthafunky » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:30 pm

I never understood why the plan was scrapped after the coup?

I mean they kicked the greeks out and then gave us nothing


Well the timeline is a little sketchy, but Roadwarrior (and maybe others on the task force?) quit while Manos will still the admin. The Task Force had nothing to do with the "kicking the greeks out" and really neither did the mod team. After the task force disbanded there was the infamous incident of admins deleting admins (everyone had been elevated to admin status) at which point all the mods and Manos were reduced to normal user status by me. IHSS and myself were running the site and we had the mod election (as had been discussed in modland for a long time) and truthfully I thought koolhass was kept on as an admin. He was absent during this whole time and when he came back I don't think he was interested in being admin anymore.

But I think it's worth saying that there's no reason the Task Force couldn't have moved ahead after all that dust settled. I think too many people were very upset by that point.

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Post by thoughtpolice » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:43 pm

muthafunky wrote:
He did more than his share.
Getting it going again would be Daejns job, as admin of this site.
That means the timeline is 'never..


To be fair, I don't see why this is his job at all. The last Task Force was a group of volunteers for that specific task, not the admin(s) or mods at the time.

I'm clear on what the mods do, and I'm clear on what you do, but what is the role of the Admin of this site? Other than to *wave*, which in itself is more than the incumbent normally contributes.

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Post by muthafunky » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:47 pm

Admins - in the phpbb sense of the word - have a few more abilities, such as creating new forums. We've always had a "mod as admin" to do this sort of thing so the mods don't have to bug me as I don't hang out in modland that much.

Daejn can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's all it is. I don't think he's really taken on any extra responsibility by being admin.

And to be even clearer, there is a site admin (me) that has the ability to directly edit the site files and database or change the DNS settings.

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Post by thoughtpolice » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:50 pm

But I think it's worth saying that there's no reason the Task Force couldn't have moved ahead after all that dust settled. I think too many people were very upset by that point.

Your second sentence answers the first. The Task Force quit in frustration, and all the mods quit en masse shortly after too. There were two reasons: relentless criticism from the members and the realization that Manos had nothing to offer except obstruction and no intention of allowing any change that threatened what he thought was sole control.

But he forgot about you Mutha......
I've said it before, but this board owes you a major 'thank you' for your actions at that time.

I do hope Cowtown reads your mini-history.

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Post by Epicurus » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:54 pm

I agree that Mutha has been the stabilising influence (plus all the work he does to keep it operational), our Juan Carlos.

But I think Pez and Daejn also deserve recognition - I recongize from my time as mod that both of them have a better intuition of how to moderate this board than I did. I think they have done a fantastic job.

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Post by thoughtpolice » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:56 pm

Part of the Task Force stuff that IHSS distributed had job descriptions, which he gave to us after the mod election. They weren't formal requirements as I recall, but more guidelines related to the TOS. I cannot recall what his own said, but given the responsible stewardship and hard work of IHSS during his tenure, I think it was more than the current *waving*.

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Post by SeamusMcCool » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:58 pm

thoughtpolice wrote:
But to pompously carry on like Road Warrior did with his childish, "I told you so" tone just reaks of insecure twat.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.


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Post by cowtown » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:25 pm

mutha is fixing
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Post by LARRYTHECABLEGUY » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:33 pm

cowtown wrote:
zara - fuck off you stupid bitch, you are the most dishonorable poster here - I don't think you want to start any shit with me, so don't



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Post by muthafunky » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:34 pm

The thing everyone forgets is it was the Greeks board that we joined, you wanted something else, start you own board


That's actually how I felt at the time which is why I felt in many ways it was the wrong thing to do. The Greeks gave away the keys to the kingdom and we (I) turned around and kicked them out. It seemed underhanded and I only did it because I thought it was the only way to maintain the long term viability of the site.

For the record, kool was gone during that whole time and I would have had no problem bringing him back in to admin land if he wanted to. My understanding is he didn't. Maybe he'll show up here and set the record on that straight?

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Post by cowtown » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:38 pm

mutha is fixing
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Post by Scott_Baio » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:38 pm

After the task force disbanded there was the infamous incident of admins deleting admins (everyone had been elevated to admin status)


Correct me if I'm wrong but this was the time when zara and her pal Shmish instigated the big brouhaha behind the scenes which led to all of the bitterness....?

I hate to pour salt into some old festering wounds but zara and her version of events never seems to jive with everyone else.
Haters wanna hate.

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Post by kirrabi » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:41 pm

eric84 wrote:
same forum, just a different format with front page, articles, links, and gallery.


So, is there a site out there that looks like this? Anyone have a link?

This site has expanded but at one time it was basically a front page of Japanese related news and the forum.

http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/?s=6a0c497b ... d015ff242&
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Post by Dallan » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:44 pm

Scott_Baio wrote:I hate to pour salt into some old festering wounds but zara and her version of events never seems to jive with everyone else.

Revisionist misogynist!

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Post by Scott_Baio » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:48 pm

Anti-American racist.
Haters wanna hate.

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Post by kirrabi » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:54 pm

Once a commie posts everyone gets agitated.
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Post by muthafunky » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:56 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but this was the time when zara and her pal Shmish instigated the big brouhaha behind the scenes which led to all of the bitterness....?


No, I wouldn't say they were the instigaters. It was mostly disagreement over how to run the forum escalating up to locked and ultimately deleted accounts. Wrongs were committed on both sides.

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Post by Scott_Baio » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:10 am

Wrongs were committed on both sides.


Is there any way you could highlight what zara did wrong in that tussle so the forum could get a clear picture as to what really happened?

By the way.....I like the cut of your jib mutha. You're a stand up guy.
Haters wanna hate.

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Post by thoughtpolice » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:53 am

mutha is fixing

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Dallan
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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:02 am

But I was getting info straight up from a few of the mods that were exiting -exiting largely thanks to cunts like you hassling them relentlessly over all the wrong things.

First I've heard this, and I heard from just about all the mods who resigned. Not one mentioned Cowtown or any of the other rabble-rousing group of members.

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Post by thoughtpolice » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:13 am

Wasn't that when you were in major pout mode and had quit again? Or was that when you had the Great Crusade for mod elections, since you had already quit??

The mods were getting flayed here routinely and weren't moving ahead with change. Every time anybody was chastised, it was an international event of epic proportion. Several felt they had lost the confidence of the members.....

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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:16 am

How many times have you quit exactly?

Maybe the mods who were here at the time will chime in and tell us why they quit. I'd be surprised if Cowtown's name came up. I'm sure Manos will.

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Post by thoughtpolice » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:26 am

Twice. Invited once, elected once, quit twice.
You invited me to be a mod the first time, do you remember that?
I quit then because when we started talking about changes, Koolhass reaction was to tell us he'd decided we needed to be on a schedule so there would be a mod 'on duty' at all times. Remember that?
Cowtown was relentless with criticism when the mods quit en masse. it was disgraceful.

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Post by Felix » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:26 am

thoughtpolice wrote:Cowtown was relentless with criticism when the mods quit en masse. it was disgraceful.


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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:28 am

thoughtpolice wrote:Twice. Invited once, elected once, quit twice.
You invited me to be a mod the first time, do you remember that?
I quit then because when we started talking about changes, Koolhass reaction was to tell us he'd decided we needed to be on a schedule so there would be a mod 'on duty' at all times. Remember that?
Cowtown was relentless with criticism when the mods quit en masse. it was disgraceful.

I didn't know until now you'd been a mod twice. Everything else I remember.

So you're saying Cow raised shit after the mods quit, not that he was the cause of the resignations, correct?

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Post by incognita » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:33 am

Dallan's got it right, Cowtown was critical after everyone quit.

I remember when the shit hit the fan. From my point of view as a poster, I didn't really care who's fault it was, IMHO, everyone involved was at fault for letting things get to that point. The mods resigned en masse, but they also had a lot of encouragement from people online at the time because everything seemed to be so tainted with animosity and distrust.
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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:37 am

I can imagine any of the newly-joined YCers looking in on this megapost discussion and the trivial nature of it would be thinking "and they had the nerve to slam our poo threads?!?".

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Post by jono_in_adelaide » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:10 am

I didnt quit, although i wanted to..... decided someone should stay on
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Dallan
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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:23 am

jono_in_adelaide wrote:I didnt quit,

Looser.

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Post by RoadWarrior » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:28 am

Glad I could have a bit of fun with everyone. I'll leave you with this:

-Your own poll indicates that 2/3rd's of you are unhappy enough to leave if a better option comes along. That's all you need to know to realize that those of you here aren't pleased, and that you're here mostly out of nostalgia. (And it's that nostalgia that fuels the navel gazing threads like this.)

-According to the display on the home page, "In total there are 17 users online." A couple of years ago at this hour, you would have had at least 25-30, and that was not a particulary good showing.

-So yes, an "I told you so" is perfectly warranted because it's the only way you're going to realize that some of you are directly responsible for creating this outcome, and that stubbornly defending the status quo isn't satisfactory for a majority of you who remain. (And clearly, it wasn't satisfactory for a lot of those who left.) Waiting for Lonely Planet to blow its forum software is not much of a strategy for making this place happen.

TP gives a factually accurate account of what occurred. I see that Cowtown's unique style of factual distortion and fingerpointing remains intact, which is part of his charm, of course. You can take his opinions for what they're worth -- I always liked his banter -- but his recollection of history is rather poor.

Here's a suggestion: One reason that this place lacks for bodies is that you have not optimized it to be found on search engines. Type typical search terms such as [political forum] into Google or Yahoo, and this place is nowhere to be found. One of the primary goals of changing the layout and adding content was to improve that ranking and increase the likelihood of the place being found, because that's what Google wants to see, and that's how people might find you.

But I disagree with IHSS that you can do much about it. Two years ago, you had a decent shot because there were more people here and more of a connection to a bigger, busier website, but now, there aren't enough of you to make a difference. That was a limited window, and I think it's pretty well shut.

Building the site now would be almost as hard as it would be to start one from scratch, a tough task that has a low chance of success. Other than getting the Deluxe Vinyl Protection Package and 60 easy payments of $500 per month from your patron saint here, you haven't got many advantages over any other forum, existing or otherwise, as had been the case before. So accept this place for what it is and deal with it, because that's pretty much how it's going to remain.

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Post by incognita » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:30 am

jono_in_adelaide wrote:I didnt quit, although i wanted to..... decided someone should stay on


Yeah, I remember that too. Jono standing tall by the tattered flag, smeared with smoke, sweat and soot as the battle raged around him, declaring "Shit, someone's got to watch the kettle, might as well be me" :twisted:

But you didn't seem to be involved with all the shit that was going down, and if I remember correctly, mostly everyone was OK with you staying on too.
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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:32 am

Your own poll indicates that 2/3rd's of you are unhappy enough to leave if a better option comes along.

No it didn't. It indicated we'd go back to TP if it were reinstated.

How many times are you going to say "adios suckers"? This is the 3rd by my count.

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Post by pezworld » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:42 am

So where are all the "valued posters"? Cooling their heels, waiting by the phone, for someone to call them and tell them that Political Stew has been rescued from the evil mods and the eviler Scott Baio?
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Dallan
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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:50 am

The valued posters are here. Well except RW who's here, but only long enough to tell us over the course of a whole year that he's not here any more.

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Post by muthafunky » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:42 am

Is there any way you could highlight what zara did wrong in that tussle so the forum could get a clear picture as to what really happened?


Truthfully you would have to ask her as I don't remember much about that time. I remember Manos kept removing stickies the mods were trying to post and I think at one point he deactivated an account. In retaliation Shmish deleted his account altogether. Those were the biggest things causing problems at the time I think.

Your own poll indicates that 2/3rd's of you are unhappy enough to leave if a better option comes along.


Come on, don't be that dishonest. The poll is basically saying do you wish we still had LPTP. Of course we all want that, it's where we came from. This question would have come back yes at any point in this site's history.

One reason that this place lacks for bodies is that you have not optimized it to be found on search engines.


Not "optimized". Please. Any site will move up in the rankings if it's linked to or has a lot of content. There is plenty of content in the forums and there's not a whole lot you can do about people linking to you with a userbase of a couple hundred people.

And frankly, RW whatever noble plans you've had in the past you're certainly like a spurned lover or petulant child now. Despite your best wishes, the place is quite active. It's too bad I didn't have a fundraiser earlier to show what an idiot you are for thinking that me footing a whole $10 a month is what's required to keep this place going. It's chump change to me, which is why I didn't have a fund raiser but I guarantee we'll have a few years worth of donations almost immediately when I get around to doing so.

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Post by muthafunky » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:57 am

Hmm... and just to spot check activity... all the bitter ex-posters seem to think it's a given that the site is less active than it used to be. Sorry bubs, but life goes on without you:

From January 13th 2005
Our users have posted a total of 168449 articles
We have 579 registered users
The newest registered user is Viva_Gustave Flourens!
In total there are 12 users online :: 5 Registered, 3 Hidden and 4 Guests [ Administrator ] [ Moderator ]
Most users ever online was 54 on Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:59 pm
Registered Users: Beach_Lover, jazzhombre, Mega_Doof, RandomThoughts, troutski

From January 18th 2006
Our users have posted a total of 128923 articles
We have 894 registered users
The newest registered user is Bobito
In total there are 9 users online :: 4 Registered, 3 Hidden and 2 Guests [ Administrator ] [ Moderator ]
Most users ever online was 46 on Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:28 pm
Registered Users: eric84, guruwil, Lou Knee, thegreenlantern

From Today
Our users have posted a total of 86898 articles
We have 3724 registered users
In total there are 15 users online :: 3 Registered, 5 Hidden and 7 Guests [ Administrator ] [ Moderator ]
Most users ever online was 173 on Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:21 pm
Registered Users: avalon_, Dallan, Felix, jono_in_adelaide, muthafunky, pezworld, thegreenlantern, ZAffer

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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:04 am

Mutha there's no surer way to muffle a debate than to insert facts. Nice going, threadkiller.

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Post by i_have_shiny_shoes » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:33 am

Type typical search terms such as [political forum] into Google or Yahoo, and this place is nowhere to be found.


Actually RW, I googled 'Talk Politics' one week ago, and Political Stew came out at 27. That's the highest ranking PS has achieved, which would do nothing other than suggest that its popularity in the wider world, beyond that of regular visitors and contributors, was higher than ever before. If you google 'Talk Politics Forum' it's currently number 30.

But I disagree with IHSS that you can do much about it. Two years ago, you had a decent shot because there were more people here and more of a connection to a bigger, busier website, but now, there aren't enough of you to make a difference. That was a limited window, and I think it's pretty well shut.


I don't know why you keep saying this, RW, because (anecdotal evidence above aside about the forum's popularity) there are just as many here as there were two years ago. It was as a result of an entire fluke, in that LP screwed up the roll-out of TT4, but there are plenty of posters whose names you would not recognise from posting here previously but as being from LP.

Waiting for Lonely Planet to blow its forum software is not much of a strategy for making this place happen.


Agreed.
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Post by cowtown » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:09 pm

mutha is fixing
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Post by zara » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:40 pm

had it with the blatant lies and conveniently leaving truths untold...

so i ask the forum, given that the ToS has been deleted, do i now have permission to post the modland discussions pertaining to this issue once and for all?

also, since there are some critical points within PMs exchanged with both of you, mutha and jono, do i have permission to post our PMs dealing specifically with the issues discussed above?

yes or no?


i'd like your answer by the weekend.

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Dallan
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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:52 pm

Sorry, you lost your title of exclusive supplier of truth some time ago.

And let's not forget all this has overall importance that's just a bit less than sweet fuck all. Poo threads are of much greater urgency and importance than anything on this thread.

And backing up stuff here with PMs and saved threads is like enshrining in bronze the rantings of a drunken madman.

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thoughtpolice
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Post by thoughtpolice » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:02 pm

point of order: do you need permission to post anything from modland? Don't recall any of that in any version of the TOS.

Zara, translation of what your stalker sez: no problem, it is of no consequence. Go ahead.

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Dallan
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Post by Dallan » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:03 pm

thoughtpolice wrote:point of order: do you need permission to post anything from modland? Don't recall any of that in any version of the TOS.

Zara, translation of what your stalker sez: no problem, it is of no consequence. Go ahead.

Stalker.

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