I've decided to become gay

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Am I gay?

Yes, say you are and we accept you as part of the community
10
67%
No, slight issue her: you dont fancy men only women.
5
33%
 
Total votes: 15

Lost Soul
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Lost Soul » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:38 am

Shunter is growing up.

I will join him in his gay crusade.

And as a gay Tutsi-American, I expect money from all of you racist leftists (redundant).
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Vince » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:28 am

Flobster wrote: Nope, Australian, British, Irish, Scottish and Italian aren't racial descriptors, as people so identifying can (and do) have any skin colour, etc.


Whats all this data collected for anyway. Why cant you all just be australians without the pigeon-holing

Flobster wrote:Aborigine is a choice in that it's possible to choose not to claim Aboriginality. But if you do claim it, you have to be accepted as such by the Aboriginal community for it to be legally recognised.


Can you lose the status if you are ostrocised by the community despite the fact you are visibly aboriginal?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:56 am

No idea. 'Visibly Aborigine' is pretty meaningless.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Vince » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:39 am

Flobster wrote: 'Visibly Aborigine' is pretty meaningless.


Not to someone who is racist against aborigines or an aborigine who is sugject to such racism. Its very meaningful to them.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:16 pm

Vince wrote:Whats all this data collected for anyway. Why cant you all just be australians without the pigeon-holing

An excellent question. As far as I can see, the data is collected to provide employment for the people who collect the data.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Iolar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:54 pm

Ha.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:06 pm

How many aborigines have had their status revoked?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:32 pm

No idea but I'd be surprised if any had.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by pezworld » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:10 pm

matt_melb wrote:
muthafunky wrote:Hispanic is really more of a cultural thing as Hispanics run the racial gamut from black to white to native american to a mixture of one or all of those.

Muthafunky, please can we have a definitive list of races.

It's clear from your comment above that (1) black, (2) white and (3) native american are all 'races', but 'hispanic' is not. EMG has also made it clear that 'black' and 'white' are 'races'. I'm not sure how many others each of you acknowledge. It seems implicit in what you both say that Australian Aborigines and African Americans must both be the same 'race', since they are both 'black'.

Please let me have the complete list as soon as possible. I need to add another column to my spreadsheet and don't want to get the categorisations wrong.

Here you go:
About Race

The U.S. Census Bureau must adhere to the 1997 Office of Management and Budget (OMB) standards on race and ethnicity which guide the Census Bureau in classifying written responses to the race question:

White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

American Indian or Alaska Native – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

The 1997 OMB standards permit the reporting of more than one race.


http://www.census.gov/population/race/about/
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by pezworld » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:13 pm

The point of the above is that Americans aren't just pulling this stuff out of their collective asses. Of course people here often consider hispanic as a race, but there is an official classification, and you see the above list in questionnaires everywhere - particularly when companies collect the stats of those who are applying for jobs online (and answering that question is always voluntary).
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by pezworld » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:16 pm

More:
FAQ

Why does the Census Bureau collect information on race? back to top
Information on race is required for many Federal programs and is critical in making policy decisions, particularly for civil rights. States use these data to meet legislative redistricting principles. Race data also are used to promote equal employment opportunities and to assess racial disparities in health and environmental risks.


How should I answer the question on race? back to top
An individual’s response to the race question is based upon self-identification. The Census Bureau does not tell individuals which boxes to mark or what heritage to write in.


What does the Census Bureau mean by race? back to top
The Census Bureau collects race data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, and these data are based on self-identification. The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country, and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically or genetically. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include both racial and national origin or socio-cultural groups. You may choose more than one race category.


How should multiracial individuals respond to the question on race? back to top
An individual’s response to the race question is based upon self-identification. The Census Bureau does not tell individuals which boxes to mark or what heritage to write in. For the first time in Census 2000, individuals were presented with the option to self-identify with more than one race and this continues with the 2010 Census. People who identify with more than one race may choose to provide multiple races in response to the race question. For example, if a respondent identifies as "Asian" and "White," they may respond to the question on race by checking the appropriate boxes that describe their racial identities and/or writing in these identities on the spaces provided.


http://www.census.gov/population/race/about/faq.html
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:54 pm

So, even the US considers "The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country, and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically or genetically." That's good.

The "in this country" is important. There's no way that, when they're at home , (say) Polynesians and (say) PNG Highlanders regard themselves as being part of a single group.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:54 pm

So, even the US considers "The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country, and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically or genetically." That's good.

The "in this country" is important. There's no way that, when they're at home , (say) Polynesians and (say) PNG Highlanders regard themselves as being part of a single group.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:17 pm

Pez - thanks for the list. Just so we've all got it right:

(1) white (2) black (3) native american (4) asian (5) pacific islander.

It seems a repulsive way to view the world, but Americans clearly understand this stuff better than the rest of us, so I'll design my spreadsheet accordingly.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:24 pm

We don't pretend we're color blind.

It's only repulsive if the people who do notice some people look different than other people are racists. Which you seem to have a ton of in Australia, despite the collective sticking of your heads in the sand.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Wellpisser » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:26 pm

Am I gay?

You may select 1 option

Yes, say you are and we accept you as part of the community

No, slight issue her: you dont fancy men only women.




The options are rayzits because they don't cover the possibility of Vince being a woman trapped inside a mans body.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by pezworld » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:57 pm

matt_melb wrote:It seems a repulsive way to view the world, but Americans clearly understand this stuff better than the rest of us, so I'll design my spreadsheet accordingly.

Repulsive? What's repulsive is the reaction to the blackface incident by so many of the readers of the article I read. Please don't preach to me that Australians understand the evils of racism better than Americans, OK?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:00 pm

>We don't pretend we're color blind.

Except you are, in a weird and disturbing way. You want to categorise people based on nothing except the colour of their skin, yet you don't see that there is (often) an enormous difference in skin colour between someone from Pakistan and someone from Japan.

The categories you want to fit people into are unscientific nonsense. It supposes that there were a handful of archetypical peoples who later split into subgroups. That is not the case.

If you must sort humans into groups at least do it properly and use the thousands of groups. There would be at least half a dozen groups in India alone which are just as distinct as "Asian" and "Pacific Islander".
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:02 pm

I didn't realize a census was so terrible.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by stringer_bell » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:02 pm

I've gotta agree - categorising people on skin colour rather than ethnicity makes no sense.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by pezworld » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:05 pm

I know it's an old thread, but it was a goody: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79875&p=1531371&hilit=blackface#p1531371
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:08 pm

Flobster wrote:. You want to categorise people based on nothing except the colour of their skin


They categorize themselves. They can choose to reply how they would like.

Skin color exists. Australians pretending it doesn't hasn't made your country any better than any others.

Say you're in an office and there is only one black guy that works there, if someone knows his name but not who he is, and asks who he is, do you reply "well, he's the guy with the two eyes, and he's wearing a shirt, and uhm..." or do you say he's the black guy?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by pezworld » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:09 pm

Flobster wrote:>We don't pretend we're color blind.

Except you are, in a weird and disturbing way. You want to categorise people based on nothing except the colour of their skin, yet you don't see that there is (often) an enormous difference in skin colour between someone from Pakistan and someone from Japan.

Right, did you read the parts about ethnic origins? Here they are again.
White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

American Indian or Alaska Native – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

As a practicality, census data is used to run those race numbers against income, school districts, congressional districts etc. so there in theory can be better representation for racial/ethnic/cultural groups in our political and educational system. So no, we are not color blind, and there's good reason for it.

Racial politics are a very big deal where I live, probably for the better for the minority groups.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:19 pm

Erm, according to those, someone from Pakistan belongs to the same racial group as someone from Japan. You'l laugh if it wasn't so sad.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:28 pm

Vs. Australia where you choose what group you want to be called a part of, as long as the people who are already a part of that group accept you as one of their own?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Vince » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:50 pm

FAQ

How should I answer the question on race? back to top
An individual’s response to the race question is based upon self-identification. The Census Bureau does not tell individuals which boxes to mark or what heritage to write in.


What does the Census Bureau mean by race? back to top
The Census Bureau collects race data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, and these data are based on self-identification. The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country, and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically or genetically.


Ridiculous. Just dont bother! if you do have the balls to say race is genes, its not culture - then just dont bother.

I'm black because I've got a UB40 record and smoke a lot of weed.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:00 am

EMG wrote:Vs. Australia where you choose what group you want to be called a part of, as long as the people who are already a part of that group accept you as one of their own?


Note that 'Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander' is the only sub-group recognised legally. As has been repeatedly said, that's a cultural group, not an attempt at defining a racial group.

And in fact, according to the US Census FAQ posted by Pez above, exactly the same applies in the US - your 'races' are defined socially, not genetically.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:07 am

So, again. If I ask you who James is, and James happens to be the only black guy in the office, how do you identify him?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Rubyrain » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:08 am

Flobster wrote:Erm, according to those, someone from Pakistan belongs to the same racial group as someone from Japan. You'l laugh if it wasn't so sad.


We also have a " other option" so you can list Pakistan, you see we add this out of RESPECT for each race and culture as Americans.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Rubyrain » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:09 am

EMG wrote:
Flobster wrote:. You want to categorise people based on nothing except the colour of their skin


They categorize themselves. They can choose to reply how they would like.

Skin color exists. Australians pretending it doesn't hasn't made your country any better than any others.

Say you're in an office and there is only one black guy that works there, if someone knows his name but not who he is, and asks who he is, do you reply "well, he's the guy with the two eyes, and he's wearing a shirt, and uhm..." or do you say he's the black guy?



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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:09 am

EMG wrote:Say you're in an office and there is only one black guy that works there, if someone knows his name but not who he is, and asks who he is, do you reply "well, he's the guy with the two eyes, and he's wearing a shirt, and uhm..." or do you say he's the black guy?

Is that a serious question? I would never, absolutely never, refer to someone in a business context as "the black guy". It would be completely politically incorrect to do so in Australia today, and would be taken as implying that his skin colour (rather than, say, his business acumen) was the first thing I perceived about him.

If I knew where he was from, I might say "he's the guy from Papua New Guinea". We might well both know that the way I knew he was from PNG was by his skin colour, but we wouldn't say so.

Similarly, if I was dealing with a board of directors and one of them was a woman, I would refrain from talking about her as "the chick".

This idea of not using skin colour (or gender) as the primary device by which you identify people in a context where it's not relevant (which is always the case at work) is regarded as really important in Australia. Much more important than regulating distatesful jokes in stand-up comedy.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:17 am

matt_melb wrote:
EMG wrote:Say you're in an office and there is only one black guy that works there, if someone knows his name but not who he is, and asks who he is, do you reply "well, he's the guy with the two eyes, and he's wearing a shirt, and uhm..." or do you say he's the black guy?

Is that a serious question? I would never, absolutely never, refer to someone in a business context as "the black guy". It would be completely politically incorrect to do so in Australia today, and would be taken as implying that his skin colour (rather than, say, his business acumen) was the first thing I perceived about him.




Hilarious. So the first thing you notice when you meet someone is their business acumen and not what they look like? Being politically correct has retarded you and your people.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:19 am

:roll:

Why are you still biting guys?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:21 am

So you can describe someone by their height, hair color, gender, etc but you're not allowed to mention skin color? I didn't realize that Australia was even more pc than the US.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:25 am

Mutha, you're a middle class white male, can you stop arguing and start feeling guilty about somthing?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:27 am

muthafunky wrote:So you can describe someone by their height, hair color, gender, etc but you're not allowed to mention skin color? I didn't realize that Australia was even more pc than the US.

In a business context, you should refrain from using terms like "black", "chick", "blonde", or "dwarf" as the primary descriptors of the people you work with, as it is likely to imply that you're making decisions about them on the basis of those factors.

When telling jokes to a cricket team, it's a little less important.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:30 am

Re the "black guy" in the office -

My boss is an Aborigine. I only found this out the other day - I had assumed that he was a dark southern Italian. He is by no means the only dark-skinned guy in my section of the factory (there are South Sudanese, a Nepalese, a Sri Lankan, a Polynesian and a Punjabi) but he IS the only dark-skinned guy who works in the walled-off office section. If I had to point him out (as in fact I have done) I wouldn't call him 'black', I'd say "the dark guy" or "the brown guy". I'd be using a visual descriptor, not a racial one. I would still call him "the dark guy" or "the brown guy" if he WAS a dark southern Italian.

On the other hand, one of my workmates in the factory area is also an Aborigine. I didn't know that, either, until it was pointed out, as he pale skin. If I was asked to point him out I wouldn't say "the black guy" either. Nor would I say "the ABoriginal guy".

Both these guys might depending on circumstances and their personal preferences, describe themselves as 'black', meaning Aborigine, but not meaning African, Pacific Islander or anything else.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:30 am

hah. PC gone mad. You're not allowed to describe people based on what they are. You're not allowed to notice it at all, because you might be a racist. Yet Australians are often hardcore racists. Looks like that's working well.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Rubyrain » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:33 am

matt_melb wrote:
muthafunky wrote:So you can describe someone by their height, hair color, gender, etc but you're not allowed to mention skin color? I didn't realize that Australia was even more pc than the US.

In a business context, you should refrain from using terms like "black", "chick", "blonde", or "dwarf" as the primary descriptors of the people you work with, as it is likely to imply that you're making decisions about them on the basis of those factors.

When telling jokes to a cricket team, it's a little less important.



What if they are black? How can you say otherwise without acknowledging them vice versa white? Really??? So, the white woman is { fill in the blank}, and the black guy is {fill in the blank}?

Edit - Those factors are who they are so how do you tell a black man he is not black, or a white woman she is not white?
Last edited by Rubyrain on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:34 am

Haha, how insane. If someone asks me to describe what someone looks like in an Australian office it's considered offensive to say they have blonde hair. Too funny.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:36 am

so we are all PC now? I thought we were all racist bogans, freely expressing our racist and xenophobic views to the world. I wish you'd make up your minds.
Last edited by temporaryhandle on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:38 am

Apparently you're all PC angels in the office and then hardcore racists outside.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:39 am

I do find it incredible that jono, Patrik, and ontheball are from the same country as the YC Aussie crew. Truly a schizo bunch.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by aero » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:40 am

Wasn't it Starfemme who's work colleague told her that she didn't count as black because she isn't 'culturally black' in the American sense? That was funny.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:42 am

Well obviously she's only black if she chooses to be.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:42 am

I am assuming that was a joke, muthafunky because it is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read. Do all Americans and Brits and Irish hold exactly the same opinions on everything?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:53 am

Mutha, I dont know that Matts office is representetive of the average Australian office

On a side note, one of our big customers is a mixed race/aboriginal guy, who calls him self "Chocco", it makes me cringe every time I have to ring up and ask the receptionist to speak with him
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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matt_melb
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:58 am

EMG wrote:Apparently you're all PC angels in the office and then hardcore racists outside.

Whereas you lecture people in a different hemisphere about the evils of racism in their country, but refer to the new recruit in your office (where your behaviour actually makes a difference) as 'the black guy'.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:03 am

We're in the same hemisphere.

I acknowledge that color exists. Doesn't change my business practice any. I'm not afraid of knowing what color someone is.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:04 am

jono_in_adelaide wrote:Mutha, I dont know that Matts office is representetive of the average Australian office


You better watch yourself. With that attitude you might accidentally slip and describe a blonde woman as a blonde woman and then get fired.

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