I've decided to become gay

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Am I gay?

Yes, say you are and we accept you as part of the community
10
67%
No, slight issue her: you dont fancy men only women.
5
33%
 
Total votes: 15

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Flobster
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:45 pm

Arent the immigration laws there to protect your white european culture?


It hasn't rained in much of Victoria (compared to the rest of mainland Australia the wet, temperate state) for four months. I had to buy water last month, and unless the autumn rain comes early I'll have to buy some more. This will not be called a drought until it persists for a year or two - we've just come off a 10-year drought.

On the other hand, the vast majority of Queenslanders live on a gigantic coastal floodplain which is subject to annual monsoon flooding. The plan there is to reduce the availability of land for housing, not increase it.

Yes, we probably could turn our east-coast forests and farmlands into cities dependent on desalination plants, but why the fuck would we want to?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:46 pm

I really like the preview before you post function here. Great answer Matt. Much better than the one I drafted.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:52 pm

matt_melb wrote:Not 'protecting white european culture' (whatever that is). But it is sensible to have limits on the number of immigrants, year after year, if you want to continue to have an acceptable level of urban infrastructure, education, health services, etc.

Vince wrote:I'm guesing any immigration would be largely from asian cultures

Yes. Particularly China and India at the moment.



So how come the vast majority of your immigrants are from the UK and Europe?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:55 pm

I think New Zealand is # 1 for migrants isnt it?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:55 pm

EMG wrote:Very multicultural? As in UK and European culture?

In the Australian Census residents are asked to describe their ancestry

English (36.1%) (2011)
Australian (35.4%) (2011)
Irish (10.4%) (2011)
Scottish (8.9%) (2011)
Italian (4.6%) (2011)
German (4.5%) (2011)



Note the 35% 'Australian'. Very few of those are Aborigines (because there aren't many Aborigines, whatever definition you're using). They are people from who-knows-where who have decided that the most important thing about their ancestry is that it's Australian. From those stats the 'ethnicity ' of more than one-in-three people here is unknown - or is Australian.

We don't collect stats on 'race' (mainly because there's absolutely no reason to). Who knows how many of those UK immigrants have white, brown, yellow, whatever-coloured skin? Not us. It's irrelevant.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Vince » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:57 pm

Flobster wrote:
Arent the immigration laws there to protect your white european culture?


It hasn't rained in much of Victoria (compared to the rest of mainland Australia the wet, temperate state) for four months. I had to buy water last month, and unless the autumn rain comes early I'll have to buy some more. This will not be called a drought until it persists for a year or two - we've just come off a 10-year drought.

On the other hand, the vast majority of Queenslanders live on a gigantic coastal floodplain which is subject to annual monsoon flooding. The plan there is to reduce the availability of land for housing, not increase it.

Yes, we probably could turn our east-coast forests and farmlands into cities dependent on desalination plants, but why the fuck would we want to?


Good points but you could sustain a much higher population and presumably will have to in th future - maybe at the expense of those forrests. Its not a case of wanting to but realising that you cant fix a time and culture and say: we're a white nation with a white european culture and always will be. Its surely inevitable that that will change over time and it will be a higher poulation with an asian culture and people.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:58 pm

EMG, I am not an expert on statistics but the one you quote, which is out of date anyway, we had a census last year, is a statistic about people describing the ancestry, not about the number of people who immigrated since the last census.

For many years it was only Europeans who immigrated here. Its going to take a while for the changes in immigration patterns to be reflected in the way people describe their heritage.
Last edited by temporaryhandle on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:59 pm

Its not a case of wanting to but realising that you cant fix a time and culture and say: we're a white nation with a white european culture and always will be.

Um... Vince, we don't say that. You say that we say that.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Vince » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:02 am

temporaryhandle wrote:Um... Vince, we don't say that. You say that


Not you personally but there is a general desire in australia to preserve the european culture and a desire not to become an asian culture?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:02 am

Vince, we might choose to sustain a much higher population, but i dont think there is any compelling reason that why we shouuld have to. The migrant intake went up to over 300k per year under our former PM, but it has now come back down to 200k, mostly due to concerns about pressure on housing and services in the east coast capitals.

If there is a part of Australia that is ripe for growth, its the tropical north, lots of water, lots of virgin fertile land, lots of living space, close to markets in Asia
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:03 am

No there's not. Where do you get your information about Australia from? The UK tabloids?

Jono, do you vote National?
Last edited by temporaryhandle on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:04 am

temporaryhandle wrote:EMG, I am not an expert on statistics but the one you quote, which is out of date anyway, we had a census last year, is a statistic about people describing the ancestry, not about the number of people who immigrated since the last census.

For many years it was only Europeans who immigrated here. Its going to take a while for the changes in immigration patterns to be reflected in the way people describe their heritage.


Ok. You have less than 5 million foreign-born immigrants living in Australia. 2.4 million of them are from NZ, UK, or Europe.

Do you think half of the total applicants are in that category?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:05 am

EMG - reasons why country of ancestry statistics in the Australian census are unreliable.
1. Over one third say 'Australian', which doesn't help tell whether they're European or not.
2. The form gives you 6 or 7 options of named countries, followed by 'other'. Results are heavily skewed by which countries are named. The first year Scotland was named as a 'country', numbers claiming Scottish ancestry skyrocketed.
3. People here illegally (eg visa overstayers) don't fill out the census.
4. Recent arrivals are less likely to take the census seriously (be honest ... do you take useless Philippines paperwork as seriously as US?)
5. It's said that people from backgrounds where they have been persecuted don't like to state that background on official forms
6. Ability and willingness to fill it out correctly are affected by English language ability
7. If the forms aren't completed, the census collectors might make up the answers (believe me, I know this one)
etc

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Vince » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:06 am

temporaryhandle wrote:No there's not. Where do you get your information about Australia from? The UK tabloids?

Jono, do you vote National?


Mainly from barmen. we get a lot people in the Uk complaining about immigration as a proxy for complaining about other races. ive herad a couple of aussie whine on about Indonesia china etc.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:07 am

That's not what the question asks, EMG. It asks how people describe their heritage. I answer Australian to that question. My father answers British. Our family came to Australia in the 1840s. Its not clear cut as you seem to think.

Vince - Absolutely brilliant. I am starting to understand your sense of humour.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:08 am

>Its not a case of wanting to but realising that you cant fix a time and culture and say: we're a white nation with a white european culture and always will be.

Erm, we don't say that. In fact we specifically say that we aren't.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:10 am

temporaryhandle wrote:That's not what the question asks, EMG.


I'm talking about foreign-born residents now. Why are half of them from the UK, Europe, or NZ?

Are there just not very many Asians applying?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:10 am

"Jono, do you vote National?"

Of course not, but I live in Darwin and I have traveled up here, and i have seen the enormous potential of the region.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:13 am

EMG, a pretty large number of those NZ immigrants are Maori or other islanders. As we don't record their skin colour on arrival we don't know how many. I imagine that at least some of the UK immigrants have non-white skin. (And were all the HK immigrants regarded as being from the UK?)
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:15 am

EMG I think I already covered that: For many years it was only Europeans who immigrated here. It's going to take a while for the changes in immigration patterns to be reflected in the way people describe their heritage.
And Matt pointed out how imprecise the question is. And I followed it up by showing how people can answer the question in different ways.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:15 am

Jono - I am thinking very seriously about moving up there. Do you know Alice Springs at all?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:18 am

temporaryhandle wrote:EMG I think I already covered that: For many years it was only Europeans who immigrated here. It's going to take a while for the changes in immigration patterns to be reflected in the way people describe their heritage.
And Matt pointed out how imprecise the question is. And I followed it up by showing how people can answer the question in different ways.


We're talking about what country the foreign-born residents in Australia moved from. There is no room for debate. It's the country they moved from.

Are you saying 50% of the people trying to move to Australia in recent years have been Ukers, Europeans and New Zealanders?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:20 am

Not realy, I've only passed through on the drive to Adelaide.

Its got some major social problems, and law and order was starting to break down a year or two ago, but things are starting to improve. my old boss spent 3 years in Alicsprings and loed every minute of it.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:23 am

Thanks Jono.

I am not saying anything other than I am no longer sure what you are trying to say. Everyone who applies to immigrate to Australia does so subject to exactly the same rules, regardless of where they come from, EMG.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:27 am

Most of the Australians I've met moan on and on about immigrants being the scum of the earth. But I gather that by immigrants they mean people who aren't white, because I've even heard it from white New Zealanders who were themselves immigrants living in Australia.

It makes me wonder if the general opinion isn't that immigrants are fine as long as they're not too "ethnic".

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:28 am

Vince wrote:
temporaryhandle wrote:No there's not. Where do you get your information about Australia from? The UK tabloids?


Mainly from barmen. we get a lot people in the Uk complaining about immigration as a proxy for complaining about other races. ive herad a couple of aussie whine on about Indonesia china etc.

Now I'm starting to understand. The Aussies who go and work as barmen in the UK are raising the average IQ of both countries.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:31 am

EMG wrote:Most of the Australians I've met moan on and on about immigrants being the scum of the earth.


Another reason to be wary of expats.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:32 am

I think EMG has been talking to the same barmen Vince has!

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by EMG » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:34 am

No, the Kiwi was an Australian resident. The rest are rarely ex-pats, usually just your average Australian sex-tourist.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:40 am

hahahahahaha! Another poster with an elfin sense of humour!

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:07 am

Now I'm starting to understand. The Aussies who go and work as barmen in the UK are raising the average IQ of both countries.


What is it with Aussies making this joke? I thought it was funny the first time I heard it 15 years ago. How many times must it be posted on this forum?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:18 am

VinnyD made it on the Dumb Republicans thread today. But I agree, it's tired.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Iolar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:28 am

I really doubt that an immigration rate of 1% of population per annum is one of the highest in the world. Our economy is in the doldrums and the rate of non-EU immigration is 2%. You could probably double it (at least) if you include other EU citizens. I'd imagine it is much higher for European countries with comparatively strong economies ie Luxembourg, Switzerland, Germany and the Nordics.

The UK is European, EMG.

Not recording the ethnicity and race of your population is lazy. We discussed it before on the other forum, Flobby. You guys are like the French, only with worse food and appalling dress sense.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:39 am

I agree about our dress sense. It never used to be like that. I blame Generation X. It's been going downhill since they entered the workforce.

Also good quality clothing here is prohibitely expensive. Our retail sector sucks.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Iolar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:44 am

I've posted this in another thread somewhere but I didn't think Melbourne was prohibitively expensive at all. I'd say it was about 10% more expensive than Dublin. Eating out was cheaper. Petrol was almost free in comparison and cars were much cheaper. I like to visit supermarkets and check out car and property prices whilst abroad, weird, I know.

When your currency returns to sane levels against the euro, it'll be cheap. I was there recently, so the euro was stronger than it had been for a while.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:01 am

It is expensive compared to what it used to be lolar. I used to dress much better than I do now. Of course I have a kid to support these days, but I rarely shop for brand names now. And the culture has changed. Its much more relaxed than it used to be.

Oh and here are the facts about immigration, if anyone is interested:http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Iolar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:08 am

I'm sure it was cheaper than it is now, but I'd been led to believe that it was more expensive than Norway and Switzerland. It is expensive; don't get me wrong. It's 10% more expensive than Ireland, and Ireland is an expensive country, but nowhere near Norway or Switzerland.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:10 am

Well we agree most of us dress like shit. You should see some of the young 'uns on Casual Friday.

God I sound old ...

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Scrubb » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:13 am

lolar - 10% more expensive than Dublin - but from the menus that Spelly used to link to, Dublin prices are taking the piss. I've never seen prices like that *anywhere*. If Melbourne is even MORE expensive than that, well, that puts it into prohibitive for a lot of people.

Oh, and you may be right about prices in some parts of Switzerland (my impression is that Geneva is more expensive than most of the rest of the country), but a Zurich or Bern menu is not as expensive as a Dublin menu.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:15 am

I reckon our lolly is just plain loaded.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:16 am

Scrubb wrote:but a Zurich or Bern menu is not as expensive as a Dublin menu.


Definitely wasn't my experience.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Iolar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:18 am

Eating out was cheaper in Melbourne than Dublin, Scrubb. Oslo restaurants are way more expensive than here. Maybe 30% more. Swiss restaurants are about the same as Irish ones.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by temporaryhandle » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:28 am

Did you stay in Footscray? Or was it Fitzroy? All gentrified ex working class suburbs populated with young people with "cosmopolitan" tastes and high disposable incomes.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Iolar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:34 am

I stayed in the Hilton in South Wharf. I spent time in both of those areas, though. Melbourne has some amazing cafés. They were really quite impressive. It was a challenge to find bad coffee.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by stringer_bell » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:44 am

Hard to spend a lot in Footscray with a few exceptions.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by Flobster » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:16 am

I haven't eaten in Footscray for about a decade, but yes, there were dozens of astonishingly cheap places.

Which immigrant group is currently dominant in Footscray? Still Vietnamese?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by jono_in_adelaide » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:24 am

muthafunky wrote:
Now I'm starting to understand. The Aussies who go and work as barmen in the UK are raising the average IQ of both countries.


What is it with Aussies making this joke? I thought it was funny the first time I heard it 15 years ago. How many times must it be posted on this forum?


Robert Muldoon (NZ Prime Minister) said it in a speach about New Zealanders who migrated to Australia, and it has since entered the folklaw of both countries
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:51 am

Iolar wrote: You guys are like the French....

I couldn't imagine higher praise.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by matt_melb » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:55 am

muthafunky wrote:Hispanic is really more of a cultural thing as Hispanics run the racial gamut from black to white to native american to a mixture of one or all of those.

Muthafunky, please can we have a definitive list of races.

It's clear from your comment above that (1) black, (2) white and (3) native american are all 'races', but 'hispanic' is not. EMG has also made it clear that 'black' and 'white' are 'races'. I'm not sure how many others each of you acknowledge. It seems implicit in what you both say that Australian Aborigines and African Americans must both be the same 'race', since they are both 'black'.

Please let me have the complete list as soon as possible. I need to add another column to my spreadsheet and don't want to get the categorisations wrong.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Post by muthafunky » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:17 am

In Australia I believe it's Australian, British, Irish, Scottish, and Italian. Aborigine is not a race but a choice. Bogan is implied for most.

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