What's the lesson from midterms?

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Rich_D
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Rich_D » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:38 pm

This is the lesson I think the world needs to take away: Trump's election was not an aberration. This is the new reality. America is the first empire in history to walk away from power. The dominant presence of America is gone, Trump has made America weak in just two years. It is looking like the greatest unforced capitulation of power in history. It is time for the world to move on from the previous era, it really is the dawning of the post-American era.

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by eric84 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:59 pm

Rich_D wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:38 pm
This is the lesson I think the world needs to take away: Trump's election was not an aberration. This is the new reality. America is the first empire in history to walk away from power. The dominant presence of America is gone, Trump has made America weak in just two years. It is looking like the greatest unforced capitulation of power in history. It is time for the world to move on from the previous era, it really is the dawning of the post-American era.
That's a wee bit too dramatic. The US has been reducing its international presence for some time now. After the Iraq war disaster, the pull back has intensified though Obama was still willing to use soft power, persuasion to keep the US relevant. So, really, it was going in that direction anyway. It's still too early to suggest this is an acceleration of the US's isolation or whether this was just a brief period of madness and a return to Obama's approach will return. In any case, Trump's approach isn't really coherent: it may be isolationist in certain respects but in others he's trying more overt attempts to leverage US power to compel other countries, mostly his allies, to very limited success.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Rich_D » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:22 pm

I don't agree with that: Obama was moving back the exercise of US power from the brute force of the Bush era to exercising power through institutions, but institutions the US led, that reflected its values. The world still looked to US leadership in a crisis. The US was a good-faith ally, its treaties would be honoured, its allies knew where they stood. All that has gone out the window in the last couple of years. This may not be a bad thing - it is likely to have positive and negative consequences - but the US has abdicated leadership. It is extraordinary.

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by eric84 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:41 pm

Sure, but I think Obama didn't feel that the US always need to take the military lead in every international crisis. Libya was a good example of that. There is a power vacuum on some files now but in others there's a lot of more traditional US approaches. I agree the US has become completely unreliable and lacking credibility. I'm not so sure that can't be restored
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:42 pm

Gridlock can be a blessing.

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Zamuel » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:23 pm

Logg wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 am
I wonder who they should replace Pelosi with and why. The one thing that went right for them this time was the House...and as a result they should replace Pelosi. Why and with whom?
I've asked this same question in another thread. It's a good one. Those unhappy with Pelosi need to be suggesting alternatives. Someone has to steer the boat.
eric84 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:41 pm
I agree the US has become completely unreliable and lacking credibility. I'm not so sure that can't be restored
A good assessment, the weakness is the leadership, not the quantity or quality of force that can be projected. Good leadership can restore American influence, rather quickly if necessary. But personally I favor allowing local sovereignty to develop cohesive unity directed towards modern goals. I'd rather we nudged them gently than started directing traffic again. Trump has made this more a necessity than an option, I'd prefer to see less strain induced.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Annotated » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:45 pm

andybox wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:51 am
Annotated wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:54 pm
The big lesson is yet to come.

Will the Democrats use their win to work for the people or to worship at the altar of spite and revenge?
Why haven’t the Republicans used the last 2 years to work for the people?
They have. On different issues.

But I'd like to see healthcare improved. That's why I was rooting for the Dems. They ran on improving healthcare. That's what they said they'd do.

So let's see if they do it now, or if they take the road to (imaginary) revenge instead.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm

How will they improve healthcare, and what will the funding source be?

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Logg » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:12 pm

Rich_D wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:38 pm
This is the lesson I think the world needs to take away: Trump's election was not an aberration. This is the new reality. America is the first empire in history to walk away from power. The dominant presence of America is gone, Trump has made America weak in just two years. It is looking like the greatest unforced capitulation of power in history. It is time for the world to move on from the previous era, it really is the dawning of the post-American era.
Anyway, you'd probably have to wait until the results of 2020 before saying 2016 was not an aberration. But I understand why you wouldn't want to wait around and hope for the best after the last two years.

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Annotated » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:30 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm
How will they improve healthcare, and what will the funding source be?
Ask them.

That's what they ran on.

So, I'm all for it.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Godjira » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:53 pm

To whom shall we turn for world leadership!!??

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:01 pm

Annotated wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:30 pm
Citizen Baba wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm
How will they improve healthcare, and what will the funding source be?
Ask them.

That's what they ran on.

So, I'm all for it.
So, you support something you don't know anything about.

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by nycfellow » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:35 pm

Thanks to the mods for moving this over to Politics - it was where I had meant it to be and then screwed up.

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by 2wilzgood » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:38 pm

The Dems need to be extremely proactive. Jump the FUCK up and start selling a platform. It's why Pelosi needs to go. A new big tent, now or never.

Wages, welfare, environment, infrastructure

Double down

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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by cowtown » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:41 pm

Logg wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 am
cowtown wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:57 am
the lesson is racism still wins elections and the Red State's identity politics will play even at the expense America

dems did better then they are getting credit for, don't believe Trumps declared victory -it serves the Dems well for 2020. He has been weakened greatly and few blues were appeased

now the dems just have to get their shit together, it'd be nice if they nullified Pelosi (not speaker of the house and no presidential run)
I wonder who they should replace Pelosi with and why.

The one thing that went right for them this time was the House...and as a result they should replace Pelosi. Why and with whom?
she's too left for me, wants too much, same issue I had with Bernie - I get, go for the gold and settle for the bronze but it doesn't work, it scares people off

Plus she has been Trumped, given a Zzzzz name and is half way to Hillary and shes shown she is incapable of fighting back in a meaningful way, her DNA test was her death
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Annotated » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:49 am

Citizen Baba wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:01 pm
Annotated wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:30 pm
Citizen Baba wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm
How will they improve healthcare, and what will the funding source be?
Ask them.

That's what they ran on.

So, I'm all for it.
So, you support something you don't know anything about.
Asked and answered.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by andybox » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:28 am

What happened to the caravan?
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Zamuel » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:05 am

Citizen Baba wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm
How will they improve healthcare, and what will the funding source be?
Ok, specific answers: Scrap Obamacare and adopt Medicare / Medicaid for all. Divert Trumps Tax cuts to healthcare. Ta-da, wasn't that quick and easy.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Godjira » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:05 am

You’re going to need price controls. And what about all those insurance compy?
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Zamuel » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:48 pm

Godjira wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:05 am
You’re going to need price controls. And what about all those insurance compy?
About time for some price controls and corporate regulation IMHO (especially on pharmaceuticals). We should convert the existing insurance plans to cooperative non profits (ala credit unions). Liquidate their holdings to fund the change and employ the corporate staff to manage the new system and all the new clients. I believe a medical standards agency needs to be created also as the corporate structure has been downgrading standards methodically.

Maybe we can shoot a few CEOs and CFOs to get the ball rolling ? (Hillary would have)
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by eric84 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:54 pm

You need a public option. You can't rely on private insurance. Obamacare should've been a lesson on why a public option is necessary.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Zamuel » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:50 pm

eric84 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:54 pm
You need a public option. You can't rely on private insurance. Obamacare should've been a lesson on why a public option is necessary.
Eric, the concept began with :
Zamuel wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:05 am
Scrap Obamacare and adopt Medicare / Medicaid for all. Divert Trumps Tax cuts to healthcare. Ta-da, wasn't that quick and easy.
Is that enough of a public option for you ?
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by eric84 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:58 pm

I don't think halting Trump's tax cuts will be enough.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Godjira » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:34 am

It’s a complicated process that entails the loss of a chunk of GDP. It’s no country for old men, in particular, orange skinned old men.
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Re: What's the lesson from midterms?

Post by Andrea1 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:24 am

andybox wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:28 am
What happened to the caravan?
It served its purpose, for Trump-pig - enabled him to ride the wave - the nasty wave, of racism, fear of the invading criminal hordes, that will threaten/undermine Trumpian culture. Just in time for the mid-terms, that were all about him. At least in those states in which HE won. Oh wait, it wasn't a presidential election, was it? Oh yes it was, according to Trump - he is crowing about HIS victories. After all, didn't he say some of those Republicans that lost did so because they didn't embrace him?

Maybe it was a referendum on Trump, if so then he should be worried - those rust belt and swing states didn't go quite as he would've liked.

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