Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

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Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:49 pm

And why it's set up the way it is?

Serious question.

I'm thinking lots of you don't (especially not after the way you melted down when someone informed you of the electoral college).

The following is from a "journalist" at NBC. Ironically enough, he says he's an "intelligence" reporter. ... Surely as unbiased as he is intelligent, of course.
It may not happen in our lifetimes, but the idea that North Dakota and New York get the same representation in the Senate has to change. “Senators representing less than half the U.S. are about to confirm a nominee opposed by most Americans”

https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/stat ... 6527118337

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:58 pm

This argument has been going on years, centuries, and then you suddenly think you have it all figured out?

LOL!
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:01 am

It's par for the course from the National Bolshevik Channel. They are loathsome, and still don't understand why their ratings have crashed.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Usher73 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:04 am

Back in high school, closer to the middle of last century than the end, we had to memorize and recite the Gettysburg Address.

Today, the Feeralist Papers and Constitution should be required reading.

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Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:05 am

Lost Soul is another idiot who thinks he has the wherewithal to settle a centuries old debate.

I wouldn’t trust you to tell me the time.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:21 am

Godjira wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:05 am
Lost Soul is another idiot who thinks he has the wherewithal to settle a centuries old debate.

I wouldn’t trust you to tell me the time.
The debate was solved during the Constitutional Convention in the 18th Century, gootard.

It's called the Connecticut Plan or the Great Compromise.

Please inform the idiots at NBC, after you learn it for yourself.
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Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:28 am

I don’t need a history lesson from you, thanks.

People today and in the past have still argued against the US having a bicameral congress, whether or not you agree with them.

I don’t agree with them either, and I look forward to the Democrats reclaiming the Senate next month.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by jedgarandclyde » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:53 am

Lost, you have posted on here that Hitler was a Socialist, and he and Stalin were allies in WW2, so you give others lessons in history?

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:02 am

jedgarandclyde wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:53 am
Lost, you have posted on here that Hitler was a Socialist, and he and Stalin were allies in WW2, so you give others lessons in history?

Dear oh dear.
Hitler was a Socialist, and he and Stalin were allies in WW2. Idiot.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by cuchulainn » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:42 am

Hitler was a socialist? Tell me more.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:53 am

Hitler and Stalin were allies? See why no one needs a lesson from you?
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Usher73 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:02 am

So Federalist and Constitution are of no interest.

Now I know where I am.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:14 am

Well, you can’t expect an op with “tards” in the title to contain anything worthwhile.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by matt_melb » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:18 am

Anno, if you were redesigning the Senate today - or if you were designing a new bicameral legislature for a different country that was also a federation - would you still set the Senate up the same way?

I can think of a number of good reasons for having a bicameral legislature, but the objective of giving small states a disproportionate voice in the legislature wouldn't make my top 3.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:10 am

cuchulainn wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:42 am
Hitler was a socialist? Tell me more.
You are a sad case. I covered it extensively in your very own thread about a month ago, gnathead. Suffice it to say that the second word in the political party he created was 'Socialist'.

Godjira wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:53 am
Hitler and Stalin were allies? See why no one needs a lesson from you?
You are a stupid case. Go ask a Pole about their alliance, or anybody else in Yurp who watched them gobble up 10 countries during their alliance.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:46 am

Look up the word “alliance” in the dictionary, jackass. And you never proved anything about Hitler.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:57 am

Please show this to Clyde, you stupid case.
The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, also known as the Nazi–Soviet Pact,[1] the German–Soviet Nonaggression Pact[2][3] or the Nazi German–Soviet Pact of Aggression[4][5][6] (officially: Treaty of Non-aggression between Germany and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics),[a] was a neutrality pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union signed in Moscow on 23 August 1939 by foreign ministers Joachim von Ribbentrop and Vyacheslav Molotov, respectively.[8] The pact was followed by the German–Soviet Commercial Agreement in February 1940.

The pact secretly delineated the spheres of interest between the two powers, confirmed by the supplementary protocol of the German–Soviet Frontier Treaty amended after the joint invasion of Poland. It remained in force for nearly two years, until the German government of Adolf Hitler ended the pact by launching an attack on the Soviet positions in Eastern Poland during Operation Barbarossa on 22 June 1941
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E ... ntrop_Pact
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by eric84 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:01 am

I suppose allying with fascists like Mussolini and Franco aren’t instructive of anything.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:13 am

eric84 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:01 am
I suppose allying with fascists like Mussolini and Franco aren’t instructive of anything.
Perhaps you can tell the tards who Uncle Joe is standing next to?


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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Flobster! » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:45 am

Yes, Anno, I do understand why you have a senate. It's because your system derives from the Westminster system of two chambers, one representing the population, the other representing amorphous qualities like 'the different aspects of the nation'. (Those mild sneer quotes, btw, I'm not quoting a source.)
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:52 am

Sloosey, as I said, The last person who should be giving history lessons is you. The M-R pact wasn’t an “alliance”. And your chart is completely rightarded.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by eric84 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:34 pm

Lost Soul wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:13 am
eric84 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:01 am
I suppose allying with fascists like Mussolini and Franco aren’t instructive of anything.
Perhaps you can tell the tards who Uncle Joe is standing next to?


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Let’s understand this in a way a ditchdigger could understand: the us also allied with uncle joe. I take no larger ideological conclusions about that other than it was in the geopolitical interests of both countries to do so. Ideology, even your weird version of it, doesn’t explain nearly everything that happens in the world.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by VinnyD » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:47 pm

A non-aggression pact is not an alliance. The US and Britain were allies of the USSR; Germany never was.

On the topic of the OP, at the time of the adoption of the constitution, the population of the biggest state (Virginia, 747,610) was about 12.7 times that of the smallest (Delaware, 59,094). (Figures from 1790 census.) Today the biggest state has 67 times the population of the smallest. What was fair in 1789, for each state to have the same representation in the Senate, may not be fair today. The fact that something is mandated by the constitution, and therefore extremely hard to change, does not make it fair or democratic. Pointing out that something mandated by the constitution is unfair and undemocratic does not imply ignorance of the constitution; rather the reverse.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:23 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:47 pm
On the topic of the OP, at the time of the adoption of the constitution, the population of the biggest state (Virginia, 747,610) was about 12.7 times that of the smallest (Delaware, 59,094). (Figures from 1790 census.) Today the biggest state has 67 times the population of the smallest. What was fair in 1789, for each state to have the same representation in the Senate, may not be fair today. The fact that something is mandated by the constitution, and therefore extremely hard to change, does not make it fair or democratic. Pointing out that something mandated by the constitution is unfair and undemocratic does not imply ignorance of the constitution; rather the reverse.
LOL! You're arguing against yourself and don't even know it.

The fact that the difference between the largest and the smallest states is greater now is even more of a reason to have the present system.

I thought you tards were supposed to be about protecting the little guy? ... Oh, wait, what? ... You don't have principles, only sides? ... OK, scratch that then.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:26 pm

matt_melb wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:18 am
Anno, if you were redesigning the Senate today - or if you were designing a new bicameral legislature for a different country that was also a federation - would you still set the Senate up the same way?
Of course. It keeps the bigger states from running roughshod over the smaller states. It also recognizes that different areas of the country have different needs.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Logg » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:54 pm

The Senate is Affirmative Action for Real Americans.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by flojin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:15 pm

Liberia is libertarian. It’s in the name!

The US allied with Stalin in WW2. The US was communist!

East Germany was democracy. It was in their name!

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:20 pm

Logg wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:54 pm
The Senate is Affirmative Action for Real Americans.
Ah, yes. Scratch a liberal, and a Fascist bleeds.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Logg » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:35 pm

The mention of Affirmative Action usually gets them riled. And yet, that's what it is.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Iolar » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:41 pm

flojin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Liberia is libertarian. It’s in the name!

The US allied with Stalin in WW2. The US was communist!

East Germany was democracy. It was in their name!

All of Obama’s cabinet are about to be arrested and tried in Utah. The radio said so!
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by simon_in_exile » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:44 pm

Annotated wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:20 pm
Logg wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:54 pm
The Senate is Affirmative Action for Real Americans.
Ah, yes. Scratch a liberal, and a Fascist bleeds.
The gist is true though, right? Protecting the small parties against tyranny from the larger, more numerous ones.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:55 pm

simon_in_exile wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:44 pm
The gist is true though, right? Protecting the small parties against tyranny from the larger, more numerous ones.
Yes, that's true. But "affirmative action" in practice (at least in the U.S.) is miles away from that.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by simon_in_exile » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:42 pm

Annotated wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:55 pm
simon_in_exile wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:44 pm
The gist is true though, right? Protecting the small parties against tyranny from the larger, more numerous ones.
Yes, that's true. But "affirmative action" in practice (at least in the U.S.) is miles away from that.
Shame it’s not working in practice - are you suggesting there’s too much power in the hands of majorities such as white males in large states like Florida?
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by VinnyD » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:03 pm

If a state modeled its legislature after the federal constitution, with say equal representation in the upper house for every county regardless of size, it would be found to have violated the Fourteenth Amendment, which guarantees equal protection and the due process of law against incursions by the states.

Anno, your answer to matt presupposes that the existing state boundaries cannot be changd even in the event of a hypothetical starting from scratch. There is no reason to presuppose that.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by DCComic » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 pm

Tard, fag, nigger, cunt.

Whose delicate sensibilities are protected?
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 pm

simon_in_exile wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:42 pm
Annotated wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:55 pm
simon_in_exile wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:44 pm
The gist is true though, right? Protecting the small parties against tyranny from the larger, more numerous ones.
Yes, that's true. But "affirmative action" in practice (at least in the U.S.) is miles away from that.
Shame it’s not working in practice - are you suggesting there’s too much power in the hands of majorities such as white males in large states like Florida?
I'm suggesting that the state should take your job away from you and give it to me. Bitch!

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 pm

DCComic wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 pm
Tard, fag, nigger, cunt.

Whose delicate sensibilities are protected?
Bitch.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Annotated » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:29 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:03 pm
Anno, your answer to matt presupposes that the existing state boundaries cannot be changd even in the event of a hypothetical starting from scratch. There is no reason to presuppose that.
It doesn't matter if you redraw the states. They will still shift over time, creating imbalances.

The Founding Fathers were way smarter than you, Vinny.

Way way WAY smarter than you.

Having you and your ilk redo their work is like hiring a crazy old woman to be your art restorer.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by VinnyD » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:57 pm

You couod redraw the bundaries as the population shifted over time, Anno, as we do with congressional and legislative districts.

That isn't the way I would do it. I would have two senators from each state, but their voting power would more closely reflect the states' populations. Say, keep the original ratio of 12.6 to 1 in maximum voting power differential. Wyoming senators would have one vote each. California senators would have 12.6 votes each, and so on. Still a long way from democracy, but a big step towards it.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by guruwil » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:07 pm

We have some of the same debates and issues with out Senate. It is supposed to be the states house and there are equal senators for each state despite the fact that Tasmania has a population of about half a million and NSW has a population of 7.5 million. It makes Tasmania ridiculously politically powerful.

There is good argument why this isn’t right as well as arguments as to why it should be.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by matt_melb » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:21 pm

‘Protecting the small states from the big states’ translates into giving rural residents more voting power than urban ones.

The idea that urban people are just an amorphous mob who can’t really be trusted to vote properly, unlike real people on the land, so get fewer votes. I find it unacceptably undemocratic.

If I were redesigning the US Senate, and retaining a House that remained two-party, I would think the most important thing was to have some kind of proportional representation system to give a voice to interests other than the two main parties.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by VinnyD » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:30 pm

That's only a 15:1 ratio, not too different from the 12.6:1 that we had when the Constitution was adopted. Now we have 67:1, as noted above.

The other way of moving towards democracy would be for the bigger states to subdivide themselves. If California split up into sixty states or equal population, each would be bigger than Wyoming, and Annotated's concerns would still be addressed. Of course the Senate as currently constituted would not allow that to happen.

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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by jedgarandclyde » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:54 pm

Lost, Russia and Germany signed a non-aggression pact at the start of WW2, but a couple of years later Germany invaded Russia, and they were never allies, get it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

And despite the Nazi party's offical name of being 'the Nationist German Workers Socialist Party', they were never any sort of a true Socialist party, matter of a fact they used to throw Socialists and Communists in concentration camps, they were very right wing indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

Please do take this on board, and try to understand it, and please do stop giving history lessons that are not at all true.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Lost Soul » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:54 am

Clyde, I'm sure you're as unaware of the following factoid as you are of their alliance signed a week before they both dissected Poland.

But Uncle Joe allowed Adolph and his Wehrmacht to practice tank warfare on Soviet soil, when they were barred from rearming by the League of Nations.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by veronica_inheels » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:28 am

Godjira wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:53 am
Hitler and Stalin were allies? See why no one needs a lesson from you?
wow....

hehehe.

you are an idiot.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by simon_in_exile » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:50 am

matt_melb wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:21 pm
‘Protecting the small states from the big states’ translates into giving rural residents more voting power than urban ones.
No it doesn’t. There is no direct correlation between a state’s total population and its percentage of urban dwellers.
Nevada, Hawaii, Utah, Oregon, Arizona make up half of the top ten most urban states, for example.
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by Godjira » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:56 am

veronica_inheels wrote:
Godjira wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:53 am
Hitler and Stalin were allies? See why no one needs a lesson from you?
wow....

hehehe.

you are an idiot.
I know that they divided Poland, but Russia didn’t go to war with the UK and France when they declared war on Germany.

You see, words have these things called “definitions”. They indicate what a word means.
That's the kind of bold flavor they enjoy in Albuquerque!

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SkinnyPuppy
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by SkinnyPuppy » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:45 am

Lost Soul wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:13 am
eric84 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:01 am
I suppose allying with fascists like Mussolini and Franco aren’t instructive of anything.
Perhaps you can tell the tards who Uncle Joe is standing next to?


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That picture sucks, it puts anarchism and communism opposite of eachother whereas anarchism is the next step after communism

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guruwil
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Re: Tards, Do You Understand Why We Have a Senate in the U.S.?

Post by guruwil » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:59 pm

SkinnyPuppy wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:45 am
Lost Soul wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:13 am
eric84 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:01 am
I suppose allying with fascists like Mussolini and Franco aren’t instructive of anything.
Perhaps you can tell the tards who Uncle Joe is standing next to?


Image
That picture sucks, it puts anarchism and communism opposite of eachother whereas anarchism is the next step after communism
Thats a very dumb statement, it might have been a smartarse throwaway line, but it shows real ignorance in a discussion about the political spectrum.
An it harm none, do what ye will

We are all Atheists about most gods, some of us just go one god further.
judik wrote:Guruwil was right!!!
jono_in_adelaide wrote:I think Guru is right on this one
“shunter” wrote: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Guru is bang on the money here.

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