reading of the names of the WTC victims

[korgy]

happens every year today in NYC. time to stop.

such an arrogant snub to everyone in the world who has died as a result of war, terrorist attacks, bigotry, violence, etc.

it also gives these attacks so much enduring power they dont deserve

cant wait for the rage

bring it on

[Paddox1]

I kind of feel the same about the first and Second World War stuff. It’s almost fetishised the two wars.

[equus]

I dunno, if one of my friends or family members had died in the attacks, I think I'd be still in wanting it to go ahead.
I dont think it's really anyone else's business to be telling them to stop.

[Chip_Oatley]

The thing is, the list keeps growing. The first responders and others who worked at the site and at (ugh) Fresh Kills etc. are dropping like flies of cancer. Also on the U.S. side, I'd add those who signed up for the military b/c of 9/11, and died or were maimed.

[equus]

I kind of feel the same about the first and Second World War stuff. It’s almost fetishised the two wars.

I think I'm leaning towards that view with the first world war. The last survivors have long since died and the commemorations often seem a bit like drumming up support for the next war rather than looking back in sorrow at the waste of life.

[vanceen]

happens every year today in NYC. time to stop.

such an arrogant snub to everyone in the world who has died as a result of war, terrorist attacks, bigotry, violence, etc.

it also gives these attacks so much enduring power they dont deserve

cant wait for the rage

bring it on

It isn't a snub to anybody for any reason. If the same people reading the names were telling people in different parts of the world not to commemorate disasters that have effected them, I would agree with you. But they aren't telling them that.

It's hard to see how and when an attack "deserves" power and how much is enough. I think the observance has more to do with how people feel about what happened, and about family, friends, acquaintances and neighbors who suffered from it.

[Jim-2012]

Or are questions now forbidden?

[polardude1]

JIm,

heard Obama was behind the 911 attacks. or perhaps it was the Jews. or perhaps it was land speculators

[eric84]

Time to remember Trumpiedoodle on 9/11 bragged about having the tallest building in NYC, lied about muslims celebrating the attack, lied about looking for survivors and scammed relief money.

[Jim-2012]

JIm,

heard Obama was behind the 911 attacks. or perhaps it was the Jews. or perhaps it was land speculators

Polar, are questions about the pulverization of 7 WTC buildings forbidden?

[Annotated]

it also gives these attacks so much enduring power they dont deserve

You seem to have forgotten the impact of 911.

It's the day that America (and a few other individuals scattered throughout the Western world) truly woke up to what the Islamists are about. And that realization -- as it should -- will play a large role in American foreign policy for generations to come.

Of course it was also the day that the deniers shifted into turbo mode.

[VinnyD]

What vanceen said. Commemorating some people is not a snubbing everyone else.

[equus]

JIm,

heard Obama was behind the 911 attacks. or perhaps it was the Jews. or perhaps it was land speculators

Polar, are questions about the pulverization of 7 WTC buildings forbidden?

yes. Pack a bag, the Illuminati will be there presently to take you to your assigned FEMA camp.

[polardude1]

JIm

Polar, are questions about the pulverization of 7 WTC buildings forbidden?

You can ask what ever you want even if i dow not make any sense

[polardude1]

JIm

Polar, are questions about the pulverization of 7 WTC buildings forbidden?

You can ask what ever you want even if i dow not make any sense

[strife]

JIm,

heard Obama was behind the 911 attacks. or perhaps it was the Jews. or perhaps it was land speculators

Polar, are questions about the pulverization of 7 WTC buildings forbidden?

If they were forbidden, you wouldn't be asking them. Is it forbidden to point and laugh at you?

[Jim-2012]

If they were forbidden, you wouldn't be asking them. Is it forbidden to point and laugh at you?

No, if you point and laugh, it reveals your own ignorance.

[polardude1]

Jim, following yout onw rationale, yu=our speech would have been shut down long ago

Stew Ingredient
Posts: 9206
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:32 am
Contact: Contact Jim-2012
Re: Trump violates the First Amendment
Post by Jim-2012 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:13 pm

36% think he whould not have that power.
I think no President should have the power to close news outlets like Lincoln did in the early '60s.

[incognita]

I don't have a problem with reading the names. I don't even have a problem with the WWI & WWII memorial days, but they are barely a blip on the radar here.

I do have a problem with the American Legion calling today "Patriot Day". Hate that they're exploiting the event for their special brand of jingoistic BS. And I hate what it's done to the US, with the establishment of the Patriot Act, increased NSA (and many other domestic agencies) spying on us, increased militarization of local law enforcement...

[simon_in_exile]

I kind of feel the same about the first and Second World War stuff. It’s almost fetishised the two wars.

I think I'm leaning towards that view with the first world war. The last survivors have long since died and the commemorations often seem a bit like drumming up support for the next war rather than looking back in sorrow at the waste of life.

I’m curious - what differences do you see between Australia and the UK in terms of attitudes and commemoration of WW1, Gallipoli, WW2 and subsequent wars? And any surprises?

[simon_in_exile]

happens every year today in NYC. time to stop.

such an arrogant snub to everyone in the world who has died as a result of war, terrorist attacks, bigotry, violence, etc.

it also gives these attacks so much enduring power they dont deserve

cant wait for the rage

bring it on

It isn't a snub to anybody for any reason. If the same people reading the names were telling people in different parts of the world not to commemorate disasters that have effected them, I would agree with you. But they aren't telling them that.

It's hard to see how and when an attack "deserves" power and how much is enough. I think the observance has more to do with how people feel about what happened, and about family, friends, acquaintances and neighbors who suffered from it.

I see where Korgy is coming from, and I back up his view in case of any personal attacks (it’s a fair challenge), but I agree with you. Take away all the global repercussions and exploitation by vested interests and, although 3000 people is slightly less than fuck all in the grand scheme of things, each person has a name, a family, a workplace and a group of friends and acquaintances, so the attacks affected hundreds of thousands of people on a personal relationship level. I hope the names of the deceased are read out every year for decades to come.

[Jim-2012]

Jim, following yout onw rationale, yu=our speech would have been shut down long ago

Stew Ingredient
Posts: 9206
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:32 am
Contact: Contact Jim-2012
Re: Trump violates the First Amendment
Post by Jim-2012 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:13 pm

36% think he whould not have that power.
I think no President should have the power to close news outlets like Lincoln did in the early '60s.

Polar, what the Deep State didn't count on was the power of the internet. While the masses can be intimidated to keep quiet about such lies about the 9/11 false flag, there are enough brave people who tell the truth on the internet about how 7 WTC buildings were pulverized and with that, nearly 3000 people were murdered.
The people who lied about the false flag of 9/11 should be exposed and prosecuted.

[simon_in_exile]

Jim - I’m genuinely interested - what do you think really happened on 11 September 2011? And who was responsible or informed prior to the event?

[Jim-2012]

Jim - I’m genuinely interested - what do you think really happened on 11 September 2011? And who was responsible or informed prior to the event?

GWBush and the neocons needed a "Pearl Harbor" event to justify invading the middle east as part of their plan of hegemony, not that I believe you are really interested in what happened.

[simon_in_exile]

I’m interested in your perspective.
And it could certainly be viewed as “convenient”, although personally I don’t think it was a foreseen attack - I buy the mainstream view that Al Qa’ida used wiling Saudi national volunteers to fly planes into buildings, and US intelligence missed the signal within the noise

However, the response could have been better thougt-out. Interesting that Bolton is in the current Admin, don’t you think?

[equus]

I kind of feel the same about the first and Second World War stuff. It’s almost fetishised the two wars.

I think I'm leaning towards that view with the first world war. The last survivors have long since died and the commemorations often seem a bit like drumming up support for the next war rather than looking back in sorrow at the waste of life.

I’m curious - what differences do you see between Australia and the UK in terms of attitudes and commemoration of WW1, Gallipoli, WW2 and subsequent wars? And any surprises?

No massive differences overall. Broadly speaking Australians see WWII as a just war that was about survival against an evil enemy whereas WWI is seen as a colossal clusterfuck that wasted millions of lives for no good reasons. In both countries I see politicians and militaries using both wars for propaganda value and the old notion that one should not glorify war seems to have substantially faded. You also see right wing nutjobs hijacking sentiment in support of veterans for their causes though I think/hope people are awake to that (though I've got family who share Britain First etc memes that utilise the sacrifice of veterans to inflame racism etc).

Australians tend to overestimate the existential risk to Australia from WWII - the japanese never really had an invasion plan for Australia - though obviously if they'd defeated the US, Australia wouldn't have lasted long.

Australians often seem to think Gallipoli was all about them, often forgetting even the Kiwis and routinely forgetting all the other allied troops who died. I think it often seems that sentiment to the Turks is warmer than to the British High command in regards to Gallipoli, and the Anzac legend has grown ever larger in the popular imagination. Australian casualties in WWI had a very substantial impact on Australia given it's very low population - you'll see memorials in every town, but because of that I think Australians often forget that the Belgians and French had a much worse time of it.

There seems to be more resentment about the Iraq war here in the UK compared to Australia, probably given some of the very specific things Blair said.

Brits don't seem to recall that Australia fought in Vietnam but Australians certainly haven't. Attitudes in Aus about it tend to be, support for veterans when we remember them, but less enthusiastic than for other vets. Anti vietnamese sentiments have waned with the large influx of Vietnamese and the opening up of vietnam to tourism. People look at vietnam now and I think generally can't work out what the war was about.

[Jim-2012]

I’m interested in your perspective.
And it could certainly be viewed as “convenient”, although personally I don’t think it was a foreseen attack - I buy the mainstream view that Al Qa’ida used wiling Saudi national volunteers to fly planes into buildings, and US intelligence missed the signal within the noise

However, the response could have been better thougt-out. Interesting that Bolton is in the current Admin, don’t you think?

What evidence do you have that any planes were flown into WTC buildings?
Where are the airplane wings, seats, luggage, passengers and tail of the airplanes?
When a hollow aluminum tube flies into a steel reinforced concrete building, what wins, the steel/concrete building or the hollow tube?
The false flag was planned months in advance, and didn't require the help of 17 hijackers. Explosives and thermite do an effective job on a skyscraper as was saw when the 3 skyscrapers and the 4 smaller WTC buildings in between were pulverized.

[equus]

Popular Mechanics

[strife]

I’m interested in your perspective.
And it could certainly be viewed as “convenient”, although personally I don’t think it was a foreseen attack - I buy the mainstream view that Al Qa’ida used wiling Saudi national volunteers to fly planes into buildings, and US intelligence missed the signal within the noise

However, the response could have been better thougt-out. Interesting that Bolton is in the current Admin, don’t you think?

What evidence do you have that any planes were flown into WTC buildings?

Are you fucking kidding? (Rhetorical question - I know you're not.)

[equus]

I like the way they planted a bit of undercarriage between two buildings several blocks away to get found years later. That's playing a long game. No wonder Trump hired Bolton. Man's a fuckin genius.

[Jim-2012]

What evidence do you have that any planes were flown into WTC buildings?
Are you fucking kidding? (Rhetorical question - I know you're not.)

Where are the airplane wings, seats, luggage, passengers and tail of the airplanes?
When a hollow aluminum tube flies into a steel reinforced concrete building, what wins, the steel/concrete building or the hollow tube?

[polardude1]

What evidence do you have that any planes were flown into WTC buildings?

Now that is weird. I guess Jim is juts disregarding the fact that hundreds of millions of people watched on TV and live airlinewrs hitting those buildings. other wise that is not evidence enough. :

Jim, Dark comedy is not your strength

[strife]

Not to mention thousands of eyewitnesses in downtown Manhattan.

[equus]

I miss Jetblast. Now there was a conspiracy theorist. He really did his homework. Not like the rubbish ones we get here these days.

[Jim-2012]

What evidence do you have that any planes were flown into WTC buildings?

Now that is weird. I guess Jim is juts disregarding the fact that hundreds of millions of people watched on TV and live airlinewrs hitting those buildings. other wise that is not evidence enough. :

Jim, Dark comedy is not your strength

A hollow aluminum tube cannot penetrate very far into a steel/concrete skyscraper; Most of the plane would break up into thousands of pieces and fall down to the street and be seen by many people.
Read what happened in 1945 when a bomber collided with the Empire State Building.
The event is explained on the internet.

[polardude1]

fake history

[equus]

Popular Mechanics

[equus]

Just out of interest, Jim, how many people would need to be in on this conspiracy? Including the agents, the planners, the demolition experts, the people who had to turn a blind eye to fitting the demolition explosives, the tv networks, the actors who pretended to board the planes, the airlines and so on.

A round number is fine. How many. Show your working please.

[Jim-2012]

Hundreds of thousands of people worked on the Manhattan project (before your time) and no one talked about it until the US government announced it.
Thousands of architects and engineers dispute the Deep State cover story on 9/11.
Many YouTube videos go into detail of the 9/11 event, both in the US and abroad.
I'm not going to provide any links since a simple search will reveal more than you would be willing to watch.

[equus]

A round number is fine. How many. Show your working please.

[korgy]

Where are the airplane wings, seats, luggage, passengers and tail of the airplanes?

that's easy. they were incinerated and buried in the Staten Island landfill.

the site was still burning and/or smoldering, if i remember correctly, for up to 5 months after the attack. it was a giant incinerator. you could see it burning when taking the train from Brooklyn over the Manhattan Bridge, and you could smell it in all of lower Manhattan. the smell is still entrenched in my head, like most of us who smelled it.

[korgy]

i just looked this up. most reports say the fires officially stopped burning after about 100 days, which sounds right -- i am sure there was still smoldering without flame for almost 5 months after the attack. it was a horrific smell.

[Jim-2012]

that's easy. they were incinerated and buried in the Staten Island landfill.

The airplane parts & passengers would have lain in the street for an hour before the WTC towers were pulverized. Surely, people would have seen all that evidence and reported it.

[strife]

Jim the 'libertarian' doesn't trust the gubmint to hire a dogcatcher, but thinks it could pull off secrecy in a murderous plot involving tens of thousands of actors.

He is a lunatic.

[korgy]

Jim, you are clueless.

[Jim-2012]

Jim the 'libertarian' doesn't trust the gubmint to hire a dogcatcher, but thinks it could pull off secrecy in a murderous plot involving tens of thousands of actors.

He is a lunatic.

Your lame response reveals you have no serious rebuttal to either what Lionel's video questioned or what I have posted in this thread.

[strife]

Jim the 'libertarian' doesn't trust the gubmint to hire a dogcatcher, but thinks it could pull off secrecy in a murderous plot involving tens of thousands of actors.

He is a lunatic.

Your lame response reveals you have no serious rebuttal to either what Lionel's video questioned or what I have posted in this thread.

To offer your lunatic conspiracy theories a rebuttal would be to offer them respect and dignity they do not deserve. It's the same reason I don't engage Holocaust deniers. You don't merit a debate on this non-issue.

[equus]

Jim the 'libertarian' doesn't trust the gubmint to hire a dogcatcher, but thinks it could pull off secrecy in a murderous plot involving tens of thousands of actors.

He is a lunatic.

Your lame response reveals you have no serious rebuttal to either what Lionel's video questioned or what I have posted in this thread.

It IS a serious rebuttal, Jim. And I'm not siding with Flexi out of loyalty, I think he's a whacko. But he makes a very important point.

[equus]

Gotta give Jimbo credit for one thing. Korgy has avoided the outrage.

Nice work, Jim.

[Jim-2012]

It IS a serious rebuttal, Jim. And I'm not siding with Flexi out of loyalty, I think he's a whacko. But he makes a very important point.

The power of the Deep State is very intimidating.
Those in the media who doubt the bullshit story put out by the Deep State dare not speak on the subject for fear of losing their jobs.