Trade wars are bad for the economy...

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:28 pm

There are multiple sources. This is the first one that came up on google.

"China’s current account deficit stood at $28.3 billion in the January-June period, down from $34.1 billion in the first quarter, courtesy the US-China trade war"

https://www.livemint.com/Politics/nooie ... -in-H.html
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Except it has nothing to do with the trade war. In fact if the trade war was working it would have increased china’s current account deficit not decreased it. Instead China’s exports to the US surged to record levels. Live mint is clearly propaganda for morons who know nothing about economics but want to pretend to themselves that Trump is ‘winninh’. I’d take anything you read from these morons with a grain of salt.

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:34 pm

I took a look at their site. They don’t seem to be trump morons, just Indian hucksters who are economically illiterate, posting garbage on the internet.

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:41 pm

Manufacturers in China are considering moving production to Vietnam and other lower-cost countries in south-east Asia as they fear being swept up in the widening trade dispute between Washington and Beijing.

The Trump administration has already imposed or announced 25 per cent tariffs on $50bn of high-technology products and industrial machinery and is proposing to implement 10 per cent tariffs on a further $200bn of Chinese exports, including some consumer goods such as furniture.

Factory owners in the manufacturing heartland of Guangdong province say existing tariffs and uncertainty about future US trade measures are prompting them to accelerate plans to diversify production beyond China.

We don’t think the trade war is a short-term crisis,” said Joe Chau, who runs a baby garment factory in Guangdong and is the president of the small- and medium-sized business division at the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce. “We have to analyse which Asian countries are good for our customers . . . to offset the China risk.”
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:42 pm

twodogs wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:41 pm
Manufacturers in China are considering moving production to Vietnam and other lower-cost countries in south-east Asia as they fear being swept up in the widening trade dispute between Washington and Beijing.

The Trump administration has already imposed or announced 25 per cent tariffs on $50bn of high-technology products and industrial machinery and is proposing to implement 10 per cent tariffs on a further $200bn of Chinese exports, including some consumer goods such as furniture

Factory owners in the manufacturing heartland of Guangdong province say existing tariffs and uncertainty about future US trade measures are prompting them to accelerate plans to diversify production beyond China.

We don’t think the trade war is a short-term crisis,” said Joe Chau, who runs a baby garment factory in Guangdong and is the president of the small- and medium-sized business division at the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce. “We have to analyse which Asian countries are good for our customers . . . to offset the China risk.”


That will do wonders for the American workers and economy. By the way, guess what vietnam’s Trade surplus is with the US?

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:43 pm

Tariffs are hurting China.

The country is expanding imports steadily with some items heavily reliant on the U.S. market. For instance, China tariffs on soybeans are 25%. Chinese traders are now forced to either pay 25% more for American beans or go to Brazil and pay just about the same price even without the tariff. Brazil is always more expensive than the U.S.

In the next five years, imports are expected to hit $8 trillion, a potential boon to U.S. companies
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:15 pm

The stuff made in china for export to the US is mostly goIng to go to other countries and not the US. The stuff America makes for export to China will be shut out of one of the biggest and fastest economies in the world.

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by Godjira » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:17 pm

Viva Trumpflation!

And wage Trumstagnation!
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:05 am

Asian markets declined on Monday as investor sentiment took a hit.

The Nikkei 225 slid 1.6 percent as the yen firmed amid uncertainty in Turkey. The safe-haven currency traded at 110.18 to the dollar at 9:58 a.m. HK/SIN, compared to levels around 110.90 seen on Friday.

That, in turn, saw exporter stocks trade lower in the morning, with automakers and electric appliances taking a hit. Toyota Motor declined 1.67 percent and Canon lost 2.17 percent. The sea transport subindex led losses in the morning, with the sector sinking 3.31 percent, amid broad declines.


NIKKEI NIKKEI 21942.23 -355.85 -1.60%
HSI HSI 27902.51 -464.11 -1.64%
ASX 200 S&P/ASX 200 6246.40 -32.00 -0.51%
SHANGHAI Shanghai 2756.99 -38.32 -1.37%
KOSPI KOSPI Index 2251.70 -31.09 -1.36%
CNBC 100 CNBC 8189.81 -94.92 -1.15%
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:14 am

Plus most peer to peer loans are defaulting in China which helps explain the real estate drop in Vancouver. Hard to believe that so much of the world's prosperity is dependent on the US market.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:27 pm

world markets are down because of economic incompetence in Turkey, aided by inopportune remarks by your moron president.

most peer to peer loans are not defaulting in China, some are, but some is not 'most'. and the 'some' have nothing to do with the US - it has to do with the govt controlled banking system in China and how Chinese developers access cash. Vancouver real estate has cooled because of government legislation aimed at making it more expensive for foreign investors.

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:57 pm

coffeeguy wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:27 pm
world markets are down because of economic incompetence in Turkey, aided by inopportune remarks by your moron president.

most peer to peer loans are not defaulting in China, some are, but some is not 'most'. and the 'some' have nothing to do with the US - it has to do with the govt controlled banking system in China and how Chinese developers access cash. Vancouver real estate has cooled because of government legislation aimed at making it more expensive for foreign investors.
Why is Canada discouraging foreign investors? Racism? Nationalism?
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:52 pm

To avoid a city full of houses owned by foreigners that don’t even live there at prices locals can not afford to pay.

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:02 pm

So nationalism then.

Isn't having absentee owners paying full time property taxes for services they use part time beneficial to a city?
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by eric84 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:04 pm

twodogs wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:02 pm
So nationalism then.

Isn't having absentee owners paying full time property taxes for services they use part time beneficial to a city?
No.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:11 pm

Why is that? Non voting taxpayers seems like a win to me.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by eric84 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm

twodogs wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:11 pm
Why is that? Non voting taxpayers seems like a win to me.
They're making housing unaffordable. That's bad for people who live there.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:26 pm

Part time residents pay full time taxes to fund government services they rarely use should make it better for the people who live there full time.

If housing is unaffordable raise the minimum wage.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by Godjira » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:00 am

Like Trump at the White House. He’s a part-time President, but does he pay property taxes?
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:54 am

eric84 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm
They're making housing unaffordable. That's bad for people who live there.
The same could be said for Canadian snowbirds so I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with the US adding 20% to all purchases by Canadians in the US.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by eric84 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:27 am

twodogs wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:54 am
eric84 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm
They're making housing unaffordable. That's bad for people who live there.
The same could be said for Canadian snowbirds so I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with the US adding 20% to all purchases by Canadians in the US.
I see don’t have the first clue what this issue is about. Have I told you lately how very dumb you are?
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:41 pm

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:57 pm

The Hang Seng Index dropped 1.5 per cent in the biggest decline in more than a week. The mainland’s Shanghai Composite Index fell 0.3 per cent

The Turkish lira hit a fresh record low on Monday with a further 6 per cent drop after the Trump administration’s doubling of tariffs on steel and aluminium imports from the nation sent the currency tumbling by 18 per cent on Friday. China’s onshore yuan weakened to its lowest level against the US dollar in 14 months and the South Africa’s rand dropped to a June 2016 low, while stock benchmarks from Japan and South Korea to Taiwan shed at least 1.5 per cent. The US dollar index rose to a 13-month high.

The Hang Seng Index fell 430.05 points to 27,936.57 at the close, with 47 out of the 50 constituents on the benchmark ending the day lower.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:28 pm

eric84 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:27 am
twodogs wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:54 am
eric84 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm
They're making housing unaffordable. That's bad for people who live there.
The same could be said for Canadian snowbirds so I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with the US adding 20% to all purchases by Canadians in the US.
I see don’t have the first clue what this issue is about. Have I told you lately how very dumb you are?
Florida already taxes foreign owners of real estate at a higher rate than locals. Didn’t you know that?

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:34 pm

coffeeguy wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:28 pm
Florida already taxes foreign owners of real estate at a higher rate than locals. Didn’t you know that?
No I did not, we live in Florida and have a few Canadian neighbors who have never mentioned it.

Do you have a link, I couldn't find anything to support that claim on google.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:05 pm

twodogs wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:34 pm
coffeeguy wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:28 pm
Florida already taxes foreign owners of real estate at a higher rate than locals. Didn’t you know that?
No I did not, we live in Florida and have a few Canadian neighbors who have never mentioned it.

Do you have a link, I couldn't find anything to support that claim on google.
Essentially Florida has a two tier property assessment rate that limits increases to residents of 3 percent increase per year but non residents are only capped at 10 percent. What that results in is non residents paying substantially more property tax than residents even though those taxes are supporting things like schools etc that non residents don’t take advantage of.

Tonnnes of links on google. Here’s one...

https://www.milliondollarjourney.com/ca ... issues.htm

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:46 pm

In that regard you are correct. Being a resident my property taxes are lower than a non resident and I agree that is unfair to non residents but it applies equally to all non residents.

As I understand it the increased BC property tax targets non Canadians which is nationalistic and best and racist at worse.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by eric84 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:59 pm

twodogs wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:54 am
eric84 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:15 pm
They're making housing unaffordable. That's bad for people who live there.
The same could be said for Canadian snowbirds so I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with the US adding 20% to all purchases by Canadians in the US.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by eric84 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:14 pm

By Adam Behsudi
08/14/2018 03:10 PM EDT
Agriculture export prices had their largest monthly decline in nearly seven years as a trade fight with China has no end in sight.
The price of farm good exports dropped 5.3 percent in July. That was the biggest percentage fall since October 2011, when prices decreased by 6.5 percent, according to numbers released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The overall decline was caused primarily by a 14.1 percent drop in soybean prices. Export prices for corn, wheat, fruits and nuts also decreased. Agricultural export prices over the past year decreased by 2 percent.
China has imposed retaliatory tariffs on a numerous farm exports, including the nearly $14 billion worth of soybeans U.S. farmers shipped to the country in 2017.
Prices of all imports record no change in July but have increased 4.8 percent over the past year, which was the biggest 12-month growth since prices rose by 5.1 percent for the year ending in February 2012.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:30 pm

China’s equities and currency slid, with the yuan weakening past 6.9 a dollar for the first time since May 2017 and losses in tech stocks spiraling into a broad selloff.

The Hang Seng China Enterprises Index fell 2 percent at the close for its fourth day of losses. Tencent Holdings Ltd. rattled equities after surprising investors with its first profit drop in at least a decade, sending MSCI’s emerging-market benchmark down 1.3 percent. Shanghai’s benchmark stock gauge and the small-cap ChiNext Index also retreated at least 2 percent.

China’s currency’s has slumped about 7.6 percent over the past three months as the worst performer in Asia amid China’s trade dispute with the U.S. and a slowing economy. Investors got a reminder of the economic troubles China faces on Tuesday, as data showed factory output, retail sales and credit creation in July all trailed estimates.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by Godjira » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:58 pm

twodogs wrote:In that regard you are correct. Being a resident my property taxes are lower than a non resident and I agree that is unfair to non residents but it applies equally to all non residents.

As I understand it the increased BC property tax targets non Canadians which is nationalistic and best and racist at worse.
Non-Canadians or Non-Canadian residents?
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:17 pm

TOKYO (AP) — Asian shares fell Thursday after deepening worries about global economic growth, particularly in China, set off a rout.

KEEPING SCORE: Japan's Nikkei 225 index fell 0.2 percent to 22,158.75 and the Hang Seng in Hong Kong lost 0.6 percent to 27,155.66. The Shanghai Composite index sank 0.9 percent to 2,699.60. South Korea's Kospi reopened from a holiday and tumbled 1.0 percent to 2,236.89. Australia's S&P ASX 200 edged 0.1 percent lower to 6,323.20. Shares fell in Taiwan and Southeast Asia.

TENCENT SURPRISE: An unexpected drop in profits for Chinese tech giant Tencent rattled investors, adding to recent concerns about the health of China's economy. Tencent, a gaming and messaging company, is the most valuable technology company in China. Jefferies & Co. analyst Karen Chan said Tencent's revenue was also disappointing, mostly because of weak results from its mobile gaming business. Tencent's stock fell 2.9 percent in Hong Kong on Thursday morning.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by korgy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:20 am

more good news on the Trade War front -- so much WINNING! these days

from the libtard rag Business Insider:
A Chicago-area manufacturer is laying off 153 workers and moving to Mexico partly because of Trump's tariffs
Bob Bryan
Aug. 15, 2018, 1:17 PM

President Donald Trump's tariffs are forcing another manufacturer to lay off American workers as the fall out from the president's trade fights continues to grow.

Stack-On Products, a manufacturer of storage products like gun safes and metal cabinets, will lay off 153 workers in their Chicago-area plants and move those operations to its plant in Mexico, according to the Chicago Tribune. The company's two Illinois plants will close on October 12.

Al Fletcher, the human resources director at Stack-On's parent company, told the Tribune that the decision to close the plants was made two months ago. While Fletcher said the plant's unprofitability was a major piece of the reason for the layoffs, the final decision was only made following the imposition of tariffs.

"Mr. Trump is part of this," he told the Tribune.

Stack-On joins a growing group of companies that are either moving operations outside of the US due to the tariffs or laying off workers. Trump's tariffs on metals and Chinese goods hit many intermediate goods, or parts, that US firms then used to manufacture final products. The increased cost of parts forces companies to either accept lower profit margins, raise prices on consumers, or cut costs through moves like layoffs.

Here's just a few other companies that are making a similar move to Stack-On:

Mid-Continental Nail, the largest US nail producer, laid off 130 workers after steel prices jumped. Additionally, the entire business could shut down over the next few months.
Element Electronics, a TV manufacturer, plans to lay off 127 workers from its South Carolina factory as "a result of the new tariffs that were recently and unexpectedly imposed on many goods imported from China."
Brinly-Hardy, an Indiana-based maker of lawn-care equipment, laid off 75 workers due to metal tariffs.
Harley-Davidson announced that the company will shift production of motorcycles sold in Europe outside of the US. The announcement led Trump to wage an ongoing Twitter campaign against the company.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-t ... rm=desktop
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:28 pm

Al Fletcher, the human resources director at Stack-On's parent company, told the Tribune that the decision to close the plants was made two months ago.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:34 pm

So far five companies can't compete while hundreds of new ones are opening to serve the US market. Sounds like a win to me.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by korgy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:27 pm

twodogs wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:28 pm
Al Fletcher, the human resources director at Stack-On's parent company, told the Tribune that the decision to close the plants was made two months ago.
why didnt you post the sentence that followed?:
While Fletcher said the plant's unprofitability was a major piece of the reason for the layoffs, the final decision was only made following the imposition of tariffs.
you post dishonestly, twodogs. and your juvenile use of changing the fonts to red, underlining and changing typeface to bold do not help your case. how embarrassing.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:17 pm

Yes poorly run companies in high tax states cannot compete with well run companies in low tax states. Blaming President Trump for those failures is embarrassing.

I would love to see how many people have actually lost their jobs entirely due to a few percent increase in imported material compared to the thousands of new jobs created by the tax cuts and tariffs.

BTW that Mexican nail company is still in business.

Mid Continent Nail Corporation in southeast Missouri’s Poplar Bluff has laid off about 160 workers since President Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum imports began on June 1. The company now employs fewer than 340 workers, down from about 500 before the tariffs took effect. Temporary workers have been let go and some permanent workers have left for other jobs and have not been replaced.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by eric84 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:56 pm

Poll: 40 Percent Expect Trump’s Tariffs To Help The Economy

August 24, 2018 3:04 pm
WASHINGTON (AP) — Fewer than half of Americans expect President Donald Trump’s tariffs to do much to help the U.S. economy, but their widespread unpopularity hasn’t led most Republicans to stray from supporting the president’s trade policy as the 2018 midterm elections approach.

Majorities of Americans also doubt the recently announced taxes on imports will increase jobs or wages at home, according to a poll released Friday by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research.

The survey found that 35 percent of Americans think the tariffs will leave them worse off financially, while only 19 percent expect improvement. Forty percent expect them to help the economy, while 44 percent expect them to hurt and 16 percent expect them to make no difference.

More specifically, about 4 in 10 think the policy will lead to an increase in jobs. Only about 3 in 10 expect wage gains.

Moreover, 72 percent of Americans say the import levies will cause prices for everyday goods to climb. The agreement about tariffs setting off inflation is bipartisan, with Republicans nearly as likely to express concern about rising prices as Democrats.

“Tariffs don’t help anybody,” said Raymond Brown, 65, a retired truck driver from Rio Grande, New Jersey. “It seems like the tariffs are imposed and the corporations just pass that tax onto the consumer.”

A registered Republican, Brown worries that he would need to pay more for a new car because of the steel and aluminum tariffs the Trump administration has added to the cost of importing the metals. He said he fears auto costs could rise even more if tariffs are placed on electronic equipment made abroad that is installed in cars assembled in the United States.

Yet despite concern about his trade policies, the economy is a relative source of strength for Trump. While only 38 percent of Americans approve of his handling of the presidency, 51 percent approve of his stewardship of the U.S. economy, according to the poll.

The president has benefited from a rising stock market and low 3.9 percent unemployment rate, gains that reflect, in large part, an economic expansion that began during Barack Obama’s presidency.

Trump’s signature economic achievement is the $1.5 trillion in tax cuts that will take effect over the next decade. While tax cuts provided the economy with a jolt of stimulus, they have garnered lukewarm support from Americans. Forty-five percent of Americans approve of the president’s handling of taxes, while 54 percent disapprove.

Michael Schulz, 66, a retired engineer in Alabama, said he has received job offers because of the tight labor market and companies’ need for experienced workers. A Trump voter in 2016, Schulz said the president is “doing a pretty fair job.” However, he added that he hasn’t seen any boost so far from the tax cuts.

“Maybe when it comes to tax time next year,” he said. “It appears to have benefited the business sector.”

Tariffs — Trump’s major economic focus in recent months — could prove to be a risk for the president among the broader public.

Overall, about 6 in 10 Americans disapprove of how the president is handling trade negotiations with other countries. It’s something of a rebuke to Trump, a real estate tycoon and celebrity who sold himself to voters as a master negotiator.

Some of the frustration with Trump comes from his eagerness to “carpet-bomb” other countries with tariffs without having a clearly stated strategy for helping workers at home, said Jordan Thompson, 29, who works in information security in Washington state.

“I’m not a great fan of how he interacts with other countries, how he interacts with citizens, how he tries to manipulate everything so that it’s what works for him,” said Thompson, who said he didn’t vote for Trump.

The Trump administration has portrayed the tariffs as a cornerstone of its economic policy, saying these taxes will help extract more favorable terms of trade with China, Canada, Mexico, the European Union and elsewhere.

“Tariffs are the greatest!” the president declared on Twitter last month.

“Either a country which has treated the United States unfairly on Trade negotiates a fair deal, or it gets hit with Tariffs,” he continued. “It’s as simple as that — and everybody’s talking! Remember, we are the ‘piggy bank’ that’s being robbed. All will be Great!”

Trump enjoys a solid base of support among Republicans on his trade negotiation tactics, with 75 percent approving of moves that include a broad showdown with China that threatens tariffs on almost every import from that nation. Only 36 percent of independents and 10 percent of Democrats approve.

Republicans have for decades generally supported free trade and lower tariffs, and the poll found they know there are trade-offs to the president’s approach. About three-quarters of Republicans said the tariffs will increase the price of consumer goods, roughly equal to the percentage of Democrats who said the same thing.

Still, the poll also found that two-thirds of Republicans specifically favor Trump’s new tariffs. Maxine Sailors, 80, said the public needs to be patient with the president’s strategy.

“He’s a businessman playing hardball and we’ll see how the other countries react,” Sailors said. “Maybe, after some tit and tat, the U.S. and the other countries will sit down and talk. But right now, it’s a wait and see.”

Sailors, a retiree from Austin, Texas, who previously ran a hamburger stand with her husband, added, “They want everything to be solved right now, like a one-hour TV show. Life isn’t like that. Life takes time.”

___

The AP-NORC poll of 1,055 adults was conducted Aug. 16-20 using a sample drawn from NORC’s probability-based AmeriSpeak panel, which is designed to be representative of the U.S. population. The margin of sampling error for all respondents is plus or minus 4.2 percentage points.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by Vince » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:21 pm

im not going to read the above, but are we saying that trade wars aren’t good for the economy? Is that it?
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by eric84 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:29 pm

I'm not doing the reading for you.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by northern_goddess » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:32 pm

The Chinese retail giant Alibaba says it isn't worried about President Donald Trump's trade war, and the company's comments highlight how China could gain the upper hand in the conflict.

Joseph Tsai, Alibaba's vice chairman, told analysts during the company's quarterly earnings call that the recent tariffs imposed by the US and China should not be a major detriment to the e-commerce giant's business — or the Chinese economy at large.

Part of the concern with a trade war is that imposing tariffs on goods coming from the US drives up costs for those goods — leading to Chinese companies and consumers paying more.

For instance, Chinese farmers who rely on imports of US soybeans to feed their livestock could see a dramatic price increase after the imposing of tariffs. The same could apply for other goods, like US gas or food items.

But Tsai said the hit to Chinese consumers was likely to be softened by a switch to non-US goods — whether from China or another country — facilitated by the government.

"This coming November, China will hold the world's largest import exhibition in Shanghai that will showcase products from all over the world," Tsai said. "If US goods become too expensive due to tariffs, Chinese consumers can shift to domestic producers or imports from other parts of the world."

Tsai said the Chinese government could ease the transition by providing support to offset increased costs.

"We believe that Chinese government policy will continue to support imports into China to satisfy the rising demand of Chinese consumers," he said.

Tsai's comments underscore a growing advantage for China as it tries to hold out in its trade war with Trump.

Xiaojia Zhi and Helen Qiao, China economists at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, said the shift was already beginning.

"We believe the Chinese government has more influence on how much and where to buy its imports than the US government's influence on its own importers," the economists wrote in a note to clients. "In other words, China could shift its imports from the US to purchases from other markets relatively more easily than the US administration pushing businesses to other alternative countries for outsourcing or imports."
https://www.businessinsider.com/alibaba ... war-2018-8
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:29 am

It certainly will be easier for China to replace 130 billion in US goods than for the US to replace 500 billion in Chinese goods so the US will have to increase it's manufacturing output which isn't a terrible problem to have.

On the flip side it will be easier for the US to sell 130 billion in exports elsewhere than for China to sell 500 billion elsewhere. I don't know of any market capable of absorbing that many products let alone pay for them. South America may be able to absorb some, Europe is stagnant, Africa can't pay for it and Asian countries generally make their own gadgets.

My guess is both countries and many others around the world will benefit from this long term and I am positive the environment will.
More irrational spitefulness coming from twodogs...

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by northern_goddess » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:21 am

twodogs wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:29 am
On the flip side it will be easier for the US to sell 130 billion in exports elsewhere than for China to sell 500 billion elsewhere. I don't know of any market capable of absorbing that many products let alone pay for them. South America may be able to absorb some, Europe is stagnant, Africa can't pay for it and Asian countries generally make their own gadgets.
It's sort of cute how you just made all that up.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:22 pm

Chinese soybean crusher Shandong Sunrise Group has filed for bankruptcy after failing to repay its debts, according to a court filing, highlighting the problems facing the sector from shrinking demand for animal feed and tight credit.

The company, once one of the country's largest soybean importers, registered the bankruptcy on Friday with a court in the county of Juxian in Shandong province, according to a filing on a website run by China's Supreme Court.

Shandong Sunrise, which is run by Shao Zhongyi, China's 230th richest man according to Forbes' 2016 rich list and his brother, did not answer calls for comment. It is headquartered in Rizhao, China's major crushing hub in eastern Shandong province.
More irrational spitefulness coming from twodogs...

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by northern_goddess » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:48 pm

Did you think no one in China ever went bankrupt?

Frankly, I'm surprised anyone is still buying animal feed from China after the dog food fiasco of a few years ago.
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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:32 pm

twodogs wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:29 am
It certainly will be easier for China to replace 130 billion in US goods than for the US to replace 500 billion in Chinese goods so the US will have to increase it's manufacturing output which isn't a terrible problem to have.

On the flip side it will be easier for the US to sell 130 billion in exports elsewhere than for China to sell 500 billion elsewhere. I don't know of any market capable of absorbing that many products let alone pay for them. South America may be able to absorb some, Europe is stagnant, Africa can't pay for it and Asian countries generally make their own gadgets.

My guess is both countries and many others around the world will benefit from this long term and I am positive the environment will.
The vast majority of the stuff made in China by us companies and imported to the US is never gong to be made in the US or any high wage country. Walk through Walmart sometime and think about what would sell if prIces doubled.

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by twodogs » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:20 pm

Wages are a small and shrinking part of price. Automation, taxes, regulations and shipping costs are why new factories are sprouting up in the US particularly in business friendly red states.

Even if these products can't be manufactured locally or sourced from another country why would a 25% tariff double the price?
More irrational spitefulness coming from twodogs...

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by coffeeguy » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:26 pm

twodogs wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:20 pm
Wages are a small and shrinking part of price. Automation, taxes, regulations and shipping costs are why new factories are sprouting up in the US particularly in business friendly red states.

Even if these products can't be manufactured locally or sourced from another country why would a 25% tariff double the price?
Manufacturing employment is still at a 70 year low - only 8 percent of Americans are employed in manufacturing versus 22 percent in 1940. Trump has had no impact on that trend. What is getting manufactured in the US is complex he th valued added engineered products and that stuff is gettIng done in the mid west, not American south where education levels are worst in the country. Yeah they have some big wins in auto etc but that stuff goes there because of lax labour regulations and massive subsidies and tax give aways. Prices would double if stuff made in China was made in the US, if made in other countries perhaps not.
Last edited by coffeeguy on Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trade wars are bad for the economy...

Post by korgy » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:27 pm

looks like more and more industries will be sucking off the teat of the Federal Govt to make Trump look good:
As China retaliates in Trump trade war, damage for Northwest cherry growers could reach $86 million
Updated August 24, 2018 at 10:20 pm

Four members of Washington’s congressional delegation sent a letter to Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue asking that cherry growers be included in a $12 billion aid package the Trump administration is expected to soon roll out for American farmers.

The Trump administration’s trade war with China is expected to cost the region’s sweet-cherry growers $60 million to $86 million in lost revenue, according to an initial estimate developed by the Northwest Horticultural Council.

The damage results from cherries selling for less in what had been a prime export market. Some sales were missed altogether as China’s retaliation for U.S. tariffs took hold. Earlier this year, China put a 15 percent tariff on cherries, and followed it in early July with an additional 25 percent hit just as fruit were being shipped to market.

“When that (second) one kicked in, it had a much greater impact on (China) sales,” said Mark Powers, president of the Northwest Horticultural Council. “Shipments almost stopped.”

Powers has shared these estimates with members of Washington’s congressional delegation, four of whom Friday sent a letter to Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue asking that cherry growers be included in a $12 billion aid package the Trump administration is expected to soon roll out for American farmers.

“Because sweet cherries are highly perishable, the season is over and damages from increased tariffs are hitting growers,” said the letter signed by Senate Democrats Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray and House Republicans Dave Reichert and Dan Newhouse.(cpnt)
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... 6-million/
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