Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

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Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Annotated » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:37 pm

So, it's been said that Trump is thinking about taking troops out of Europe.

Many think this will embolden Russia. And, reportedly, the Euros are worried about this.

But I say, "Why? ... Can't Europe just take care of their own backyard?"

What are they so scared of?
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by flojin » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:48 pm

History has shown that having rising multilateral military institutions in Europe leads to catastrophe. The current arrangement, which created and held the longest lasting peace on the continent in centuries, was designed this way for good reasons. Will those problems re-emerge? It's a gamble.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Logg » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:54 pm

When America doesn't take care of them bad things happen to brown people and semites there.

Taking care of their own backyard means sending trains to death camps. That's why they're not allowed to do it anymore.

Europe died at Auschwitz anyway. I guess we like keeping their corpse around as a buffer for political reasons.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by twodogs » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:02 pm

German aggression was the only issue in the past and I don't think it will ever be an issue in the future since they can dominate Europe economically.
More irrational spitefulness coming from twodogs...

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Logg » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:07 pm

That's true. Economically speaking, the EU is essentially the 1,000 year Reich, and you don't hear much Yiddish within Europe's boundaries anymore, so that's another problem solved.

But economic power has to be backed up with military power at some point. America's been the muscle behind NATO the whole time, conveniently removing the burden from Germany having to dominate its neighbors militarily, with all the awkwardness that presents.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Smoker » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:24 pm

Annotated wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:37 pm
So, it's been said that Trump is thinking about taking troops out of Europe. Many think this will embolden Russia. And, reportedly, the Euros are worried about this. But I say, "Why? ... Can't Europe just take care of their own backyard?"
What are they so scared of?
Everyone but especially Western Europe hates America and blames Americans for just about everything usually even cheers for the other side in American's military confrontations.

However once America starts to think about pulling out the troops and spending it's taxpayers money on US domestic concerns suddenly the former America bashers start singing "your abandoning us so bring your money and young Americans to die for us" back yada yada yada.

As soon as Smoker is safely out of the Sandbox I see no reason for America to spend treasure and put young American lives at risk to defend prosperious countries where a large percentarge of their citizens dispise America.

Just think of the costs in treasure and young American lives lost in Vietnam, Iraq & Afganistan etc verese spending that money on your domestic infrastructure, schools etc and saving those young American lives.

You want fantastic healthcare for all Americans? Then let Europe pay for it's own defense and put its own young Europeans at risk.

Just don't pull out of overseas military adventures and regional/triabl/religious conflict on the other side of the world until Smoker is back in the icebox.

I do wish to thank you and your American tax dollars for years of Smoker & the oil billionaire's daily security.

I hope keeping Smoker & the oil billionaires safe was worth keeping your fellow American citizens living with crappy and expensive healthcare.

Thanks American suckers!

BTW NATO could just be the North America Treaty Organizaton and that would be cool with Smoker.

Or even the New World Treaty Organization also has a nice logical ring to it.

Warmest Regards, Smoker
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by twodogs » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:21 pm

The money the US spent wasn't wasted. It developed the most advanced weaponry on the planet and when the US withdraws from around the world there will be plenty of customers to buy them. We already sell billions and once the US leaves that will increase. Saudi Arabia saw the handwriting on the wall and is stocking up. Wise move.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Smoker » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:31 pm

twodogs wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:21 pm
The money the US spent wasn't wasted. It developed the most advanced weaponry on the planet
Yes but you could have spent all that money on weapons RnD and weapons production rather than maintaining US military bases all over the world.

Plus avoided the cost in American lives in Regional/tribal/religious conflicts on the other side of the world.
twodogs wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:21 pm
and when the US withdraws from around the world there will be plenty of customers to buy them. We already sell billions and once the US leaves that will increase. Saudi Arabia saw the handwriting on the wall and is stocking up. Wise move.
Agreed; the arms dealers in Abu Dhabi aren't in the least concerned with US isolationism. They kind of see it as bringing in a boom time in weapons sales accross the world as countires have to pay for their own defense verses shugging it off on the US taxpayers.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Annotated » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:35 pm

Smoker wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:31 pm
bringing in a boom time in weapons sales
A "boom" time indeed.

Hope Europe's ready.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by flojin » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:51 pm

Smoker wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:24 pm

However once America starts to think about pulling out the troops and spending it's taxpayers money on US domestic concerns



Just think of the costs in treasure and young American lives lost in Vietnam, Iraq & Afganistan etc verese spending that money on your domestic infrastructure, schools etc and saving those young American lives.
The Republicans always increase military spending. Trump gave the Pentagon more than they asked for. Trump is ABSOLUTELY NOT considering saving money by scaling back the military and "spending it on domestic concerns" like schools or healthcare. That's not happening.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Smoker » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:34 pm

flojin wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:51 pm
Smoker wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:24 pm
However once America starts to think about pulling out the troops and spending it's taxpayers money on US domestic concerns Just think of the costs in treasure and young American lives lost in Vietnam, Iraq & Afganistan etc verese spending that money on your domestic infrastructure, schools etc and saving those young American lives.
The Republicans always increase military spending. Trump gave the Pentagon more than they asked for. Trump is ABSOLUTELY NOT considering saving money by scaling back the military and "spending it on domestic concerns" like schools or healthcare. That's not happening.
Hahaha! Dude do you have any idea of the billions and billions those overseas bases and "participation" in regional/religious/tribal conflicts adds up to?

Do you realize the billions and billions American will make from selling weapons and training to operate those weapons to countries that now have to pick up their own defense tab?

Just the amount of cash from selling the hardware on the overseas bases to the host countries rather than shipping it back to American would be astounding.

Dude you would save enough freaking money for free healthcare for every American citizen plus decades of a maned Mars mission commitment and there would be enough money left over to build a replica of the Taj Mahal as the new city hall in every working class varmint's small town in America.

Just mothballing half the aircraft carriers you have sailing around on the other side of the world would mean Trump could build his crazy Great Wall of America out of gold bricks.

And do you know what will really burn your britches? If Trump actually did this and brought all those billions back to dump into the American domestic economy he would create not thousands but millions of jobs and your infrastructure and education system and healthcare etc would be the envy of the world. The people of America would probably proclaim Trump the greatest president in US history and at the end of his 8 years of power would probably proclaim Trump King of America just to keep him on the throne.

You had better freaking hope that Trump doesn't do this or you will be stuck with him forever. Honestly all your freaking heads would explode with the horror of it.

Warmest Regards, Smoker
Last edited by Smoker on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:39 pm

Logg wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:54 pm
When America doesn't take care of them bad things happen to brown people and semites there.

Taking care of their own backyard means sending trains to death camps. That's why they're not allowed to do it anymore.

Europe died at Auschwitz anyway. I guess we like keeping their corpse around as a buffer for political reasons.
America was far better at genocide, wasn't it? Far fewer messy stragglers.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by SeamusMcCool » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:40 pm

Smoker I don't believe you read a word Flojin wrote. I see Disco is back to admonishing fascism how convenient it happens when the subject is Europe.

Tough to reconcile what Disco wrote here against his defence of an America politician posing for a picture whilst hanging with his white supremacist supporters.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by flojin » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:11 pm

Smoker wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:34 pm
blah blah blah

Yes, I know that our wars and military cost a lot. I've always advocated for shrinking the military and spending the "peace dividend" as Bill Clinton called it on shrinking our deficit or domestic spending.

My point was that Trump will not do that.

Republicans always ALWAYS increase military spending. Trump INCREASED MILITARY SPENDING and his budget GAVE THE PENTAGON MORE THAN THEY ASKED FOR.

If Trump pulls troops out of NATO he will still increase military spending. He's already committed to a nuclear upgrade that will cost over $1 TRILLION.

You don't or can't seem to understand this. Look at Trump's military spending.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:17 pm

Europe, especially Britain, needs to pull up its pants and learn to live without AmeriGGGa's umbrella.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by misanthrope » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:24 pm

As much as I'd love to see the US withdraw from some of these agreements, Flojin is correct. Trump will never cut the defense budget.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by BulletPark » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:30 pm

DCComic wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:39 pm
Logg wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:54 pm
When America doesn't take care of them bad things happen to brown people and semites there.

Taking care of their own backyard means sending trains to death camps. That's why they're not allowed to do it anymore.

Europe died at Auschwitz anyway. I guess we like keeping their corpse around as a buffer for political reasons.
America was far better at genocide, wasn't it? Far fewer messy stragglers.
Actually, in terms of numbers, no. And it's really kind of vile for you to suggest this.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:32 pm

The Spaniards were best at genocide. For waterheaded Pomgol villagers, Spain is in Europe.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:33 pm

Oh good grief,
In terms of numbers?
Really?

The Merkins killed fewer than the Nazis because there was hardly anybody left to fucking kill.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:36 pm

Right, the Europeans had already killed most of the indigenous Americans.

Apologize, Eurocunt.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by BulletPark » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:37 pm

DCComic wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:33 pm
Oh good grief,
In terms of numbers?
Really?

The Merkins killed fewer than the Nazis because there was hardly anybody left to fucking kill.
Er....

No one would deny that what happened to the native people of North America was not hideous or, in the case of the Trail of Tears, an atrocity; or the Wounded Knee massacre and similar actions, a war crime.

But actually the United States (and i would argue the New World colonial powers in general) did not commit genocides.

That's kind of a Euro thing.

And Australian, if you want to stretch a point.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Godjira » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:38 pm

Is NATO only meant to defend Europe? The only time that the only time the collective defense of NATO has been invoked was to defend the United States,

So the question is, will Americans step up? Will Trump and other righties risk their lives or their children’s lives next time America is attacked?
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:40 pm

"But actually the United States (and i would argue the New World colonial powers in general) did not commit genocides."

Fuck off.
Dont be so ridiculous.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:41 pm

DCComic wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:40 pm
"But actually the United States (and i would argue the New World colonial powers in general) did not commit genocides."

Fuck off.
Dont be so ridiculous.
Are you crying?

No one in history has done genocide like you You'reapeons.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by BulletPark » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:42 pm

Fuck off yourself.

Point to the systematic rounding up/hunting down of every single man, woman and child. That is what genocide is.

Europe invented it. Australia borrowed it to clear out Tasmania.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:45 pm

Genocide in Australia was mostly the doing of the Pomgols too. This is clearly troubling for the racist Pomgol villager DCC.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:46 pm

It's insane how unread people can be when their own country's shortcomings compete with their petty-nationalistic instincts.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:48 pm

DCComic wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:46 pm
I hate myself and want to die.
We know.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:49 pm

You wear your ignorance as a badge of pride.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:50 pm

I am Smarter than you. You a a dull, sullen villager; barely conversant in one language.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:55 pm

Keep telling yourself that if it makes your life less pitiful and lonely for a minute or two.

Then wonder where all the indigenous people went.
There are still Africans in Africa, Indians in India, Arabs in the Middle East...
But the reject religious nutbags that chose to sail West were more scorched earth types.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:58 pm

You want to know the true nature of Youreapeons? Ask them about the Roma.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:04 pm

I just asked myself about the Roma. It didn't reveal any hideous truth. You're used to ingrained tribalism and distrust - it comes out in your behaviour and language. We're not brought up that way.

But this is your sidestepping the ridiculous hypocrisy of people from a nation built on land stolen from a people destroyed in its inception tutting ad nauseam at others whose forebears were no better or worse.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:07 pm

The racist Englishman gets all furious and stompy and frothy about his Betters late into Friday night.

You must have a lot of friends. You seem like a pleasant individual, DCC.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:12 pm

Nobody else sees the world they way you do because nobody else suffers from your bizarre cocktail of defects.

Rationally talking you down may seem challenging to a child whose mummy allowed to do as he pleased, but nothing I've written here is furious, frothy or stompy. You're just unused to people bothering to talk to you if they're not prepared to tolerate your twisted worldview.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:17 pm

Your lack of self-awareness is staggering. You are quite possibly the most hate-twisted individual here. Why do you keep crawling back to the pub from which you've been ejected, repeatedly?

Leave.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:19 pm

Your lens. Think about it.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:24 pm

Doo wop, doo wop. Doo!
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by BulletPark » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:48 pm

DCComic wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:46 pm
It's insane how unread people can be when their own country's shortcomings compete with their petty-nationalistic instincts.
Genocide means something fairly specific.

The Holocaust has come to mean a singular instance of it.

I don't like having either of the words chucked around to mean other things regardless of who is doing the chucking.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:50 pm

It’s not chucking it around. It is widely accepted that there was a genocide of indiginous Americans. You just don’t like it for whatever reason.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by BulletPark » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:05 am

While there were genocidally-inspired single campaigns, there was no instrumental form of regulated genocide in the US or Canada for various reasons.

Please understand that I am not trying to rehabilitate anyone's Indian-killin' career. What happened at Wounded Knee and numerous other places was base and unforgivable. I am making a distinction between foully racist slaughter and the mechanical attempt to remove a people from the planet. The latter is a feature of the modern age.

Many Native Americans themselves are tetchy about the application of the term because they see what happened as the violation of treaty and an affront to their honor. They fell in battle or were attacked without warning, but they were not rounded up and/or exterminated methodically - and they fought back in a way that the victims of genocide rarely have the chance to do.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Flobster! » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:09 am

twodogs wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:02 pm
German aggression was the only issue in the past and I don't think it will ever be an issue in the future since they can dominate Europe economically.
Rubbish. Before German aggression there was Austro-Hungarian aggression, Napoleonic aggression etc etc. The continent was pretty much constantly at war throughout history.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Godjira » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:13 am

And has been at war until recently.

Still, you're not going to see 2dogz fighting if the US gets attacked, so we had better stay in NATO
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:29 am

European history, which does not include the Balkans, began in 1946. Americans have no history, no culture other than genocide, beginning in 1776. I hate the Merkins. They're, like, so lame.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by Annotated » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:08 am

Smoker wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:34 pm
and at the end of his 8 years of power would probably proclaim Trump King of America just to keep him on the throne.
I like the sound of that.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:15 am

strife wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:29 am
European history, which does not include the Balkans, began in 1946. Americans have no history, no culture other than genocide, beginning in 1776. I hate the Merkins. They're, like, so lame.
If you say so, sweetie.
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DCComic
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:35 am

BulletPark wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:05 am
While there were genocidally-inspired single campaigns, there was no instrumental form of regulated genocide in the US or Canada for various reasons.

Please understand that I am not trying to rehabilitate anyone's Indian-killin' career. What happened at Wounded Knee and numerous other places was base and unforgivable. I am making a distinction between foully racist slaughter and the mechanical attempt to remove a people from the planet. The latter is a feature of the modern age.

Many Native Americans themselves are tetchy about the application of the term because they see what happened as the violation of treaty and an affront to their honor. They fell in battle or were attacked without warning, but they were not rounded up and/or exterminated methodically - and they fought back in a way that the victims of genocide rarely have the chance to do.
If you narrow the definition of any term sufficiently and selectively you can target it as you will. You inadvertently exclude the Armenian genocide when you refine terms to skirt the trail of tears though, and if bounty for scalps in America isn’t genocide then nor is the business of black catching on Tasmania. Maybe that isn’t a problem for you, but minimising the Native American, Armenian and Tasmanian genocides serves no useful purpose.
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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by strife » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:41 am

DCComic wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:35 am
Maybe that isn’t a problem for you, but minimising the Native American, Armenian and Tasmanian genocides serves no useful purpose.
Then why do you minimize the European role in them?
I am Stalking you.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by misanthrope » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:46 am

Europeans making light of colonization and genocide is so cute that you could pinch it's cheeks.

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Re: Will Europe Stand Up if America Stands Down?

Post by DCComic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:55 am

strife wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:41 am
DCComic wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:35 am
Maybe that isn’t a problem for you, but minimising the Native American, Armenian and Tasmanian genocides serves no useful purpose.
Then why do you minimize the European role in them?
Where?
פולאר הוא שקרן - I want my fucking money back - The only reason you continue to participate is because you hate me personally.

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