Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by cuchulainn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:26 pm

A Democratic Socialist beat an establishment Democrat.

There is hope for this country.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Logg » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:34 pm

Are you feeling the Bern?

She's totally unknown to me. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I don't even remember the name of the Tea Partier who knocked off Eric Cantor in 2016.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by cuchulainn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm

She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by andybox » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:47 pm

cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm
She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.
What’s ICE? The others sound like great ideas.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:49 pm

Pretty much unknown to everybody. A year ago she was tending bar.

"Abolish ICE" reminds me of the Freedom Caucus people who talk about abolishing the IRS. You have to secure the borders, you have to collect revenue. Some agency will have the responsibility. You can give that agency a different name, but you will have to have an agency under some name or other. (OK, you could go back to when one agency did Immigration and Naturalization and another did Customs, if that's what she means.)

Andy: Immigration and Customs Enforcement. I agree with you about the others.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by andybox » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:54 pm

Thanks Vinny. So ICE are the government department responsible for enforcing the detainment of children and the separation of them from their parents. Some serious rebranding and reorganisation needed.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by korgy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:01 pm

posted on another thread, but..

my neighbors who work for NPR were hosting a big roof party last night for change.org -- rowdy bunch. i guess they were happy

i just learned that "If she wins [in November], she will become the youngest ever woman elected to Congress" (BBC)
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:04 pm

Andy: They are the ones separating parents and children. The detention of children once they are separated from their parents comes under Health and Human Sevices; the prosecution of the parents for the misdemeanor of crossing the border illegally (not a crime at all if you are seeking asylum) is within the bailiwick of the Department of Justice. One problem with reuniting these families is that different bureaucracies are handling the different aspects, and no provision was made beforehand to make sure they all knew how to tell each other what they were doing.

Malevolence made worse by incompetence, as somebody said.

Korgy: You have to be 25 to serve in Congress, so it is not surprising that a 28-year-old woman is the youngest. There cannot have been many younger men.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:09 pm

Actually I'm wrong. There have been lots of younger men in Congress, especially in the early days. (The link is a list of the youngest members of each Congress, not a list of, e.g., the 100 youngest people to have served.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by korgy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:10 pm

You have to be 25 to serve in Congress, so it is not surprising that a 28-year-old woman is the youngest
Vinny, that makes no sense. whether the eligibility is 22 or 25 or 28, she's still the youngest. your fact suggests that without the 25-yr-old threshhold, there would have been more younger women. odd logic. it is still significant.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Logg » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:48 pm

cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm
She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.
I like it.
andybox wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:54 pm
Thanks Vinny. So ICE are the government department responsible for enforcing the detainment of children and the separation of them from their parents. Some serious rebranding and reorganisation needed.
You might be onto something. I think ICE as we know it came into being in the aftermath and as a result of 911.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:55 pm

I'm not big on "free" college. It's ultimately a subsidy for the already well off.

As for trade school, that's a good idea. You can get easily get federal aid for credit classes if you qualify, but not for non-credit occupational certificate programs. So, you could go to community college and major in general studies and have it paid for, but not for a certificate as a nursing assistant.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Annotated » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:40 am

She doesn't like the Jews!
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Lost Soul » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:03 am

cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm
She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.
She campaigned against white people.

So she is totally in tune with self-loathing Dumbocrat dipshits like yourself.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Higgs Bossom » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:32 am

cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm
She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.
How do you reconcile open borders with guaranteed jobs, free college & trade school, & medicare for all?

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by cuchulainn » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:01 am

“A member of Democratic Socialists of America, Ocasio-Cortez ran on a proudly leftist platform, calling to abolish the U.S. Department of Homeland Security Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), fund Medicare-for-all and a federal jobs guarantee, and crack down on Wall Street.”


http://time.com/5323658/heres-what-amer ... ive-ideas/

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by korgy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:09 am

Higgs Bossom wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:32 am
How do you reconcile open borders with guaranteed jobs, free college & trade school, & medicare for all?
was "open borders" on the agenda? the borders were being managed under Obama.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Higgs Bossom » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:15 am

Without border enforcement you have open borders. I don't remember Obama arguing to get rid of the agency responsible for enforcement.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Ped_Yai » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:17 am

Higgs Bossom wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:32 am
cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm
She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.
How do you reconcile open borders with guaranteed jobs, free college & trade school, & medicare for all?
By killing fascists.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Godjira » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:33 am

By annexing Mexico
That's the kind of bold flavor they enjoy in Albuquerque!

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Lost Soul » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:38 am

We should have annexed the whole continent 170 years ago.

Spain fucked up everything they ever touched.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Godjira » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:39 am

Not the lobster.
That's the kind of bold flavor they enjoy in Albuquerque!

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:16 pm

Customs used to be part of Treasury. The Immigration and Naturalization Servce used to be part of Justice.

When the Department of Homeland Security was established after 9/11, Customs and the border control functions of the INS were amalgamated into ICE. I don't think anyone could demonstrate that matters have improved as a result.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:23 pm

How do you reconcile libertarianism, which has never worked anywhere, ever?

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by strife » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:24 pm

Would. I don't think she's going to get anywhere, but it's good to see fresh blood.
Logg wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:48 pm

You might be onto something. I think ICE as we know it came into being in the aftermath and as a result of 911.
Immigration bureaucracy was overhauled in the wake of 9/11. Homeland Security was created as a cabinet-level agency, with USCIS, CBP, and ICE brought into being as subagencies, handling policy that had previously been the domain of INS. ICE is the immigration police - they are my adversaries in immigration court. USCIS grants visas for people already in the US (State Department has this function abroad), whereas CBP is in control of the country's borders.

The VinnyD poster is correct in that ICE performs an essential function. Abolishing ICE without a plan for a replacement isn't realistic.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:24 pm

Btw, Ben Jealous, who is part of the Bernie wing of the party, one the Maryland primary. I don't know that I can bring myself to vote for him.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:33 pm

I can't bring myself to vote for Hogan. I will probably vote for Jealous as long as it is clear that he can't win.
I don't think she's going to get anywhere, but it's good to see fresh blood.
She is about as certain to win the general election as certain can be.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Chip_Oatley » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:44 pm

Higgs Bossom wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:32 am
cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm
She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.
How do you reconcile open borders with guaranteed jobs, free college & trade school, & medicare for all?
Where do you see "guaranteed jobs" or "open borders," Higgs?

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by korgy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:48 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:33 pm
I don't think she's going to get anywhere, but it's good to see fresh blood.
She is about as certain to win the general election as certain can be.
yes -- she beat the Democrat who has been holding a district that is 80% Democratic. in addition to the Bronx, this district also includes areas in Queens where hipsters have been moving -- Astoria, Woodside, Elmhurst, Long Island City. no way in hell that Anthony Pappas, the GOP nominee, could take it, pending some universal chaos.

but i thought Felix simply meant that she wont get anywhere as a Congress member... we'll see.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Higgs Bossom » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Chip_Oatley wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:44 pm
Higgs Bossom wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:32 am
cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:42 pm
She wants to abolish ICE
Medicare for all
Reform the criminal justice system
Free college and trade school

It's a simple message.
How do you reconcile open borders with guaranteed jobs, free college & trade school, & medicare for all?
Where do you see "guaranteed jobs" or "open borders," Higgs?
From her platform.

Cuch quoted it earlier.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by cuchulainn » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:59 pm

Does she advocate for open borders? In an interview she called for a “humane immigration policy”.
That doesn’t sound like open borders to me.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Chip_Oatley » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:01 pm

I like Open Border's Nachos Supremo.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Chip_Oatley » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:03 pm

Maybe we should close this border:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMZfCar-Ks8

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:08 pm

Her district is 50% Latino and 50% foreign-born. I think that counts for more than any recent influx of hipsters.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Higgs Bossom » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:12 pm

The abolition of the agency for border control & enforcement, absent a replacement, is the same as open borders. Which in and of itself is not necessarily bad, until you throw into the mix the job guarantees, healthcare & free school/training. That is where the problem arises.

In my business I tell people they can have it fast, cheap or good. They can have two of the three. Whichever two they want, but all three are impossible.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by korgy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:13 pm

one of the advantages of being young is you haven't had many public mistakes catch up with you yet

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:16 pm

Has she said she would have no agency police the borders, Higgs?

ICE is only 15 years old. We did not have open borders before then.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by cuchulainn » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:20 pm

Dismantling ICE doesn't mean she doesn't want another governmental body to do the same job.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by coffeeguy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:24 pm

not really my cup of tea policy wise, but you need people like her to shake things up.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by korgy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:30 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:08 pm
Her district is 50% Latino and 50% foreign-born. I think that counts for more than any recent influx of hipsters.
those neighborhoods in Queens have changed rapidly in recent years. i think there are a lot of reasons she won --ethnicity is certainly one of them. Crowley doesnt even live in NYC anymore. anyone who has witnessed her can see she is a bright firecracker

and yes, i suspect a lot of people who voted this time had not voted in previous Congressional elections.

" 'She won virtually everywhere,' said Steven Romalewski, a researcher at the Center for Urban Research at the City University of New York Graduate Center, who mapped the results.. 'Her strongest support came from areas that were not predominantly Hispanic,' Mr. Romalewski said, citing Astoria, where white residents comprise nearly half the population."
An Upset in the Making: Why Joe Crowley Never Saw Defeat Coming

By Shane Goldmacher
June 27, 2018

It was less than three weeks until Primary Day and, on first blush, the poll that Representative Joseph Crowley had been shown by his team of advisers was encouraging: He led his upstart rival, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, by 36 percentage points.

It was the last poll Mr. Crowley’s campaign would conduct.

Despite his many reputed strengths — his financial might as one of the top fund-raisers in Congress, his supposed stranglehold on Queens politics as the party boss, his seeming deep roots in an area he had represented for decades — Mr. Crowley was unable to prevent his stunning and thorough defeat on Tuesday night.

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez bested Mr. Crowley by 15 percentage points, delivering a victory expected to make her, at 28, the youngest woman ever elected to Congress.

If it takes a perfect storm to dislodge a congressional leader, then Ms. Ocasio-Cortez and her crusading campaign about class, race, gender, age, absenteeism and ideology proved to be just that. She and her supporters swept up Mr. Crowley in a redrawn and diversifying 14th Congressional District where the incumbent, despite two decades in Congress, had never run in a competitive primary.

She flipped the levers of power he was supposed to have — his status as a local party boss and his money — against him, using that as ammunition in an insurgent bid that cut down a possible successor to Nancy Pelosi and the No. 4 Democrat in the House.

No single factor led to Mr. Crowley’s defeat, more than a half-dozen officials inside and close to his campaign said in interviews, most on the condition of anonymity. It was demographics and generational change, insider versus outsider, traditional tactics versus modern-age digital organizing. It was the cumulative weight of them all.

The multiple and overlapping layers of the biggest victory yet by the emboldened left of the Democratic Party — Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is a socialist — has complicated the calculation for party leaders scrambling to answer what, or who, comes next. Ms. Pelosi downplayed its significance on Capitol Hill on Wednesday; others signaled the alarm for change.

“It’s a wake-up for everybody,” said Michael Blake, a vice chairman of the Democratic National Committee and a New York assemblyman who represents a nearby district in the Bronx.

Mr. Blake said Mr. Crowley, 56, ran into a charismatic younger challenger whose politics and profile — a woman with Puerto Rican roots — matched a diverse Queens and Bronx district, where 49 percent of residents are Hispanic and fewer than one in five are white.

“A lot of people of color were excited about a young woman of color,” Mr. Blake said. “People say demographics are destiny and you can’t ignore that reality when looking at the numbers there.”

But Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, in an interview on Wednesday, dismissed race as a driving factor in her win, though she had regularly highlighted her heritage on the campaign trail.

“It would be a huge mistake to just say that this election happened because X demographics live here. That is to absolutely miss the entire point of what we just accomplished,” Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said.

A former organizer for Bernie Sanders, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez won across the district, carrying Mr. Crowley’s home borough of Queens by a larger margin than she won the Bronx. “She won virtually everywhere,” said Steven Romalewski, a researcher at the Center for Urban Research at the City University of New York Graduate Center, who mapped the results.

She drew support for her progressive platform that included abolishing the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, Medicare for all and a federal jobs guarantee. Mr. Sanders had carried more than 41 percent of the vote in the district in the 2016 presidential primary.

The Bronx native spoke about her campaign’s mission a day after she shook up the Democratic Party with her defeat of Representative Joseph Crowley.Published OnJune 27, 2018CreditImage by Annie Tritt for The New York Times

“Her strongest support came from areas that were not predominantly Hispanic,” Mr. Romalewski said, citing Astoria, where white residents comprise nearly half the population.

To prepare for the race, Mr. Crowley’s campaign commissioned its first poll early in 2018; the results showed him far ahead. But the poll also had some worrisome numbers: He was remarkably little known back home, despite his many years in office, and his favorability rating was also low, according to people familiar with the findings.

Mr. Crowley’s family lives in the Washington area — a fact Ms. Ocasio-Cortez used as a cudgel. And the district itself had been redrawn following the 2010 census. This year was Mr. Crowley’s first primary since then.

By early June, the Crowley campaign was already on high alert. He had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on mailers and voter outreach, but Mr. Crowley remained mired in the low 50s in the head-to-head matchup — a danger zone for any incumbent.

His bank account showed $1 million for the race’s final sprint. But Federal Election Commission records reveal that nearly two-thirds of those funds were earmarked for the general election. He couldn’t spend it on the primary.

In a pre-election interview, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said Mr. Crowley’s blitz of activity and mail — one official involved in his campaign said some voters received more than a dozen pieces of literature — had redounded to her benefit.

“It’s funny,” she said. “A lot of people find our campaign because he comes out for the first time and they’re like ‘Who’s this? And who’s running against him?’”

At the end of May, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez released a two-minute biographical video that went viral, the latest instance of this “girl from the Bronx,” as she called herself, catching fire on social media.

Her video, and a competing three-minute clip that Mr. Crowley released days before the election, told the story of the race.

She rode subway trains in hers. He drove a car in his.

Mr. Crowley fawned over his district’s diversity and pitched himself as an ally. “The one thing about my life experience,” he said in the opening, “is the ability to put myself in other people’s shoes.” She pitched herself as a member of the community itself.

His video had fewer than 90,000 views on Twitter by Primary Day. Hers had more than 500,000.

There were some frustrations with Mr. Crowley and the Queens machine’s approach against Ms. Ocasio-Cortez’s more nimble social media presence.

“We had people running this like a 1998 City Council race and not a 2018 congressional primary,” said one person involved in Mr. Crowley’s campaign, granted anonymity to speak about its shortcomings.

By Tuesday, some members of Mr. Crowley’s team could feel the movement even before the polls closed. They saw heavier turnout in some more gentrified pockets of the district — Sanders-type strongholds. Her social media presence was swamping them.

Daniel Dromm, a Democratic city councilman who represents part of the congressional district, said he warned the Queens County Democratic leaders, including Mr. Crowley himself, that the district was shifting beneath them, ideologically and racially.

“They didn’t want to hear this,” Mr. Dromm recalled the response.

Still, few expected Mr. Crowley would be felled, as his family and staff filed into his headquarters on Tuesday evening. Two officials in the Crowley camp said turnout had been only slightly higher than expected. Either she had turned out different voters, or they voted the other way. It was too early to tell. The result was the same.

People were crying. Mr. Crowley was consoling them. “I’m sorry,” he apologized to some.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/nyre ... upset.html
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Higgs Bossom » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:35 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:16 pm
Has she said she would have no agency police the borders, Higgs?

ICE is only 15 years old. We did not have open borders before then.
I'm going by her platform as stated. I have no idea if she has a substitute in mind. It was not included in the info I read.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by cuchulainn » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:42 pm

She is shaking up the Democrats. I don't believe in open borders, but I believe in more immigration. Immigrants to the EU have to live and work there for two years before claiming benefits and I think that is a good policy.
Then there is a deeper problem, namely that Ocasio-Cortez’s agenda is riven with contradictions. The most obvious is that in calling for the abolition of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, an agency that has become a bogeyman on the left for its role in implementing the Trump administration’s polarizing deportation strategy, she is sending a clear signal that she favors more permissive immigration policies. At the same time, she favors a suite of other policies, such as Medicare for all, a universal guarantee of jobs paying a living wage, and tuition-free higher education, that would have the cumulative effect of sharply increasing redistribution from the native-born nonpoor to low-income immigrant-headed households. For immigrants, working in the United States offers them a “place premium”—that is, doing the same exact job in the outer boroughs of New York City will yield a far higher hourly wage than in Port-au-Prince, and this arbitrage opportunity draws immigrants from all over the world. This is true even before we take into account, for example, the earned-income tax credit, food stamps, and other policies designed to raise the effective incomes of households that command low (by American standards) market wages. If a federal jobs program were to offer $15 an hour to anyone willing and able to claim it, including the many newcomers who’d journey to the U.S. under more permissive policies, the implications are head-spinning. And that’s not to mention medical care and higher education that are free at the point of use, very valuable benefits that many people would go to great lengths to secure.


It is telling that libertarian immigration advocates are deeply concerned about the rising popularity of the jobs guarantee and, relatedly, a universal basic income, on the left. They recognize that if welcoming low-skill immigrants becomes more expensive for incumbent citizens, the desire for low-skill immigration will likely decrease, which is why the Cato Institute has long campaigned for “building a wall around the welfare state.” Indeed, sophisticated immigration advocates often favor reforming fiscal entitlements. Just as one must first pay into the Social Security system for a period of time before becoming eligible for benefits, the idea is that all social programs ought to become more contributory. Of course, this logic is very much at odds with Ocasio-Cortez’s belief that, for example, housing is a human right. (As an aside, questions of redistribution are central to why some conservatives, myself included, favor limiting low-skill immigration: because we believe there is a trade-off between the number of poor newcomers and the generosity with which they are treated, and we favor an approach that is somewhat less open while being far more generous to those Americans choose to admit. Cosmopolitan libertarians, by and large, prefer moving in the opposite direction.)

By all accounts, Ocasio-Cortez sees things differently. While some on the center-left will allow for the possibility that “the Trump administration’s vision of allocating green cards based on likely labor market success rather than family connections has merit,” as Matthew Yglesias recently argued in Vox, Ocasio-Cortez is unlikely to champion a more selective approach to admissions, if for no other reason than that her congressional district is dominated by immigrant-headed households, most of them working class. To many on the left, the notion of a more “merit-based” immigration system, to use Trump’s favored locution, implies that the existing system with its heavy emphasis on family admissions rewards immigrants lacking in merit—an implication that many of the naturalized citizens residing in Ocasio-Cortez’s constituency would surely resent.

Notably, Bernie Sanders, who is by far the most influential democratic socialist on the national political scene, and whose presidential candidacy played a central role in Ocasio-Cortez’s rise, is more ambivalent about mass immigration. Back in 2007, Sanders denounced the McCain-Kennedy comprehensive immigration legislation, partly on the grounds that it would have expanded low-wage guest-worker programs. Through strongly in favor of a large-scale amnesty, he has expressed deep skepticism about the wisdom of (in his words) open borders, describing the idea as “a Koch brothers proposal” in an interview with Vox. Needless to say, Sanders did not mean this as a compliment. And while many of his disciples have rallied around the cause of abolishing ice—something that could mean anything from renaming the agency and bringing it under the auspices of the Department of Justice, as its predecessor was, to dismantling all immigration enforcement outright, depending on who is doing the talking—he has, so far at least, conspicuously refused to do so, to the consternation of many on the left. If he does come around to the cause of abolishing ice, which may yet happen, my suspicion is that he will wind up supporting modest reforms and, crucially, a name change.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ms/563987/

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Citizen Baba
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:55 pm

Most immigrants in the US aren't eligible for most benefits until they become citizens.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:50 pm

Higgs Bossom wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:35 pm
VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:16 pm
Has she said she would have no agency police the borders, Higgs?

ICE is only 15 years old. We did not have open borders before then.
I'm going by her platform as stated. I have no idea if she has a substitute in mind. It was not included in the info I read.
You aren't going by the platform as stated. You are jumping to conclusions unsupported by any statement in the platform.

When somebody from the Freedom Caucus says "Abolish the IRS," do they mean "No taxes except tariffs"?

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by eric84 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:22 pm

Right, so it's kind of a vague virtue signalling which doesn't mean a great deal. You'll need people to enforce laws.
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Citizen Baba
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by Citizen Baba » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:32 pm

Last I checked, there were 435 voting members of the House, and she would need to get 217 more members to sign up to her agenda to get it through.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:37 pm

Eric: Yes, that is what I said in my first post on this thread.

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by eric84 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:20 pm

I guess I said it better.
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by cuchulainn » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:43 pm

What Sean Hannity fears:

Image

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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Post by korgy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:47 pm

wow, that LGBT thing keeps getting longer and longer. i just looked up "LGBTQIA":

"The letters... refer to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, and asexual or allied. " (Chicago Tribune)

someone needs to come up with one word -- like altgender or something.
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