FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

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Steve_in_Exile
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:43 pm

Thanks Korgy, for showing that men can by hysterical too.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:52 pm

The language used will differ from state to state here, and perhaps from jurisdiction to jurisdiction within a state, but the principles are the same, I am sure.

Do those principles apply to the SAS? I am thinking of the murder of the IRA members in Gibraltar in the 1980s.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:54 pm

Logg wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:25 pm
shunter wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:13 pm
Steve_in_Exile wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:44 pm

I agree with this completely and don't find it hysterical.

I don't think it's true that most Americans here are sort of OK with this. But I'm still failing to see any "hysterics".
I don’t think most americans are ok with it but there is an argument that: “she provoked it, she deserved it” which seems common to our brainwashed American cousins but who hnjn no way makes any sense at all as a justification.

(And vinny I said “deferential”.)
You're shocked because not everybody bought into this sensationalist tabloid piece as it was presented in your daily rag. As far as I know, leela still thinks the girl was just being a good niece and keeping an eye on the beer for her sainted aunt who left the beach to run some errands and was coming right back.

The other big issue was the punching. People felt free to use terms like 'bashing her' 'repeatedly punching' 'holding her down and repeatedly bashing her in the face.' That wasn't accurate either, imo.

You people got caught up in a tabloid story based on a viral video and are taking out your frustrations on people who want to pause and look at the bigger picture. I'll bet you were one of the surprising number of Brits on this site who thought that Amanda Knox was guilty of murder, which can only be explained by relying on your tabloid press for news about those ridiculous Americans.
There’s nothing wrong or illegal in being rude to the police - that’s all.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by leela » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:57 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:52 pm
The language used will differ from state to state here, and perhaps from jurisdiction to jurisdiction within a state, but the principles are the same, I am sure.

Do those principles apply to the SAS? I am thinking of the murder of the IRA members in Gibraltar in the 1980s.
I don't know. But the questions I quoted are from the police guidelines. The SAS is a division of the army.
Pass the wine...

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:57 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:52 pm
The language used will differ from state to state here, and perhaps from jurisdiction to jurisdiction within a state, but the principles are the same, I am sure.

Do those principles apply to the SAS? I am thinking of the murder of the IRA members in Gibraltar in the 1980s.
I’ve no idea what the killing of those 3 terrorists has to do with any of this. Should they have been arrested instead? Was the operation decision to kill them incorrect? I don’t know.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Lost Soul » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:59 pm

The SAS trained our first batch of Army Rangers in Scotland in 1943. The St. Nazaire raid was probably their most bad ass exploit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nazaire_Raid
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:06 pm

Do you think those principles were applied in the Gibraltar operation, shunter? I think shooting unarmed people dead without warning is contrary to those principles, myself.

My point is that both countries have good principles but that not every individual acts on them in every case.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:11 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:06 pm
Do you think those principles were applied in the Gibraltar operation, shunter? I think shooting unarmed people dead without warning is contrary to those principles, myself.

My point is that both countries have good principles but that not every individual acts on them in every case.
There’s no comparison to be made. The story told, as I recall, was that the IRA were on an active mission and were shot because there was immediate danger of an attack. Was that a load of bollocks? I don’t know.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:15 pm

If there was immediate danger of an attack, they would have been in possession of weapons or bombs. They weren't.

Read the principles again. Do you think the SAS applied them?

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:21 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:15 pm
If there was immediate danger of an attack, they would have been in possession of weapons or bombs. They weren't.

Read the principles again. Do you think the SAS applied them?
I didn’t say there was immediate danger. I’m saying the story told was that there was.

It’s analagous to the shooting of that Brazilian fella after 7/7 - he’s just some regular guy trying to catch a train!

Except I don’t gave any empathy to spare for the IRA
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:25 pm

Good point. Were those principles applied in the case of the shooting of the Brazilian?

You don't have any empathy to spare for the IRA. Lost Soul doesn't have any empathy to spare for young women who expose their midriff in public.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:36 pm

You can easily level an accusation of incompetence in the cases if the shooting of Mendez and more disturbingly for me (although not for him) the evidence given at the inquest was, it seemed to me, contrived and wholly unacceptable.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:42 pm

So then, as I say, both countries have decent principles in place, but not every agent of the state lives up to those principles on every occasion.

I am glad this young woman was not shot.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by veronica_inheels » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:51 pm

shunter wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:54 pm

There’s nothing wrong or illegal in being rude to the police - that’s all.
Maybe call a border guard a mofo next time?
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:57 pm

veronica_inheels wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:51 pm
shunter wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:54 pm

There’s nothing wrong or illegal in being rude to the police - that’s all.
Maybe call a border guard a mofo next time?
You’re not even engaging your brain in the discussion. You are brain washed into thinking power and authority are the same.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by veronica_inheels » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:53 am

Heheh.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 am

Steve_in_Exile wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:57 pm
SeamusMcCool wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:16 pm
the video clearly shows her taking a kick at the cop before he starts punching her
The kick in this video clearly comes after the officer tackles her and punches her in the head.



If you have a video of her kicking the officers before they tackle her and punch her, please post it. I haven't seen that.
The first 5 seconds of your video is her giving the standing cop a couple of kicks towards his groin area before the other one started punching her in the head.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:14 am

leela wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:50 pm
It seems I've identified some Canadians as USAnians. My apologies for that.

But the tone of many posts has been 'well she deserved it' or 'it was her fault', and I really don't think that either is a valid view.
I disagree I'm pretty sure only LS is fine with her getting punched. I think the tone you're picking up is she's a stupid asshole but just because that's acknowledge or people have correctly stated she could have done her part to avoid the situation doesn't mean anybody thought it was ok to start punching her in the head.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:18 am

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:52 pm
The language used will differ from state to state here, and perhaps from jurisdiction to jurisdiction within a state, but the principles are the same, I am sure.

Do those principles apply to the SAS? I am thinking of the murder of the IRA members in Gibraltar in the 1980s.
I'm surprised someone like you would bring up a military unit partaking in a military operation against an enemy force. One has nothing to do with the other. The IRA at the time insisted on being treated as enemy combatants so big boy rules were applied. I'd hardly call what happened in Gibraltar murder it is exactly the rules of engagement the IRA asked for.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:22 am

I don't know what preceded this video but here's an example of cops being insulted and nothing came from it.


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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Annotated » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:24 am

leela wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:42 am
but I will continue to disagree with anyone who thinks a beating is a proportional response to someone arguing a point with a police officer.
And I believe that point was whether or not he was a dickhead.

Turns out she was right.

I guess she can be happy about that.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:26 am




This one could have gone sideways but the cops ultimately kept their cool.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinceFoster » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:33 am

If you want to see remarkable restraint, the recent Arab Andy live-streaming/bomb-scare fiasco is up there.

I imagine its very much a necessity with the local lunatics doing their best to provoke an outrageous response.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by korgy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:46 am

that last one is good, Seamus, thanks.

the filmer is apparently guilty of

1) being black
2) not working in the afternoon
3) having a phone
4) going to the barber shop

i miss anything?
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:20 am

Having the wrong name. LOL.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:21 am

VinceFoster wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:33 am
If you want to see remarkable restraint, the recent Arab Andy live-streaming/bomb-scare fiasco is up there.

I imagine its very much a necessity with the local lunatics doing their best to provoke an outrageous response.
Thanks I'll look that one up.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:42 am

SeamusMcCool wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 am
The first 5 seconds of your video is her giving the standing cop a couple of kicks towards his groin area before the other one started punching her in the head
Fair point, I missed that. So she kicked back at the officers after they had tackled her but before the one guy started punching her in the head.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:49 am

Steve_in_Exile wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:42 am
SeamusMcCool wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 am
The first 5 seconds of your video is her giving the standing cop a couple of kicks towards his groin area before the other one started punching her in the head
Fair point, I missed that. So she kicked back at the officers after they had tackled her but before the one guy started punching her in the head.
Here's another helpful hint: Don't kick the cop who's trying to arrest you.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by SeamusMcCool » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:18 am

Steve_in_Exile wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:42 am
SeamusMcCool wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 am
The first 5 seconds of your video is her giving the standing cop a couple of kicks towards his groin area before the other one started punching her in the head
Fair point, I missed that. So she kicked back at the officers after they had tackled her but before the one guy started punching her in the head.
Not a wise on her part but still with 3 cops present no reason to start smoking her in the head.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Moethebartender » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:49 pm

More soft face punching from the boys in blue!

Mesa officers on leave after video shows man being punched
Uriel J. Garcia, The Republic | azcentral.com Published 5:21 p.m. MT June 5, 2018 | Updated 10:23 a.m. MT June 6, 2018

The Mesa Police Department released a video Tuesday showing a police officer repeatedly punching and kneeing a man before he is pulled to the ground while other officers surround him.

At one point, the 15-minute video shows, a different officer shoves the man's head into an elevator door after other officers handcuffed him and zip-tied his feet.

Mesa Police Chief Ramon Batista said Tuesday the man didn't follow officers' orders to sit down but that the use of force didn't appear to be necessary based on his initial review of the footage.


The matter is being investigated, he said. Four officers, who have not been identified, are on leave pending the investigation results, the chief said.

"I don't feel that our officers were at their best," Batista said. "I don't feel this situation needed to go the way that it went."

Mesa police identified the beaten man as 33-year-old Robert Johnson, who was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct and hindering after the May 23 incident. Mesa police also arrested Erick Reyes, 20, who was with Johnson the night of the incident, on suspicion of disorderly conduct and suspicion of possessing drug paraphernalia.

The video's release comes as the Mesa Police Department has been scrutinized for officers' use of force in other incidents. Unlike other cases, in which pictures or details of Mesa police officers' use of force has been released by third parties, the police chief released this video, which lacks audio. Police body-camera video footage hasn't been released.

Batista said he wanted to release the video to the public before it surfaced online and to provide context to the incident.

"The images of the video are powerful and I thought it was paramount that you hear it from me with respect to how I feel about it and what I'm going to do to ensure this doesn't happen again," he said in an interview with The Arizona Republic.


Andre Miller, a pastor at New Beginnings Christian Church in Mesa, and attorneys Benjamin Taylor and Joel Robbins, who are representing Johnson, criticized the officers' treatment of their client in a statement issued Tuesday.

In the statement, they said Johnson was cooperative and did nothing to provoke the officers' use of force.

"The misconduct of these officers would have gone unnoticed if it had not been captured by surveillance videos at the apartment complex where the assault occurred," the statement says. "We hope and pray that the Mesa Police Department will accept responsibility for the misconduct of these officers. Mesa must take concrete steps to ensure that culpable officers are disciplined, retrained, or dismissed.

"The Mesa Police Department must develop a law enforcement culture that meets community and constitutional norms and ensures that police and citizens go home safely after police interactions."

Video surfaces

Batista said a civilian notified him of the "alarming" video footage, which was captured on an apartment complex surveillance camera the night of the encounter among police and Johnson.

The incident started about 11:24 p.m., when police received a call of a woman in distress on Main Street about a mile east of Country Club Drive, Batista said.

The video shows several officers who approach Johnson, who appears to be talking on his cellphone on an apartment complex's upper-floor walkway.

Batista said the incident happened on a fourth-floor apartment deck. He said Johnson was leaving the scene as one officer questioned Reyes. That officer asked Johnson to stay as more officers arrived to investigate, the chief said.

The video shows three other officers get to the fourth floor, exiting an elevator. Johnson had leaned against a railing while he used a cellphone, the video shows.

Three officers approach the man and began to search him. Then, two officers point to a wall behind Johnson and, eventually, he leans against it, the video shows.

Then four officers close in on Johnson, three of them begin punching him after one of them knees him, the video shows. Seven minutes after the officers handcuff him and zip tie his feet, officers began escorting Johnson into an elevator before one officer shoves his head into the elevator door, the video shows. The officers then bring Johnson back to the deck.

Toward the end of the video, one officer wraps a white cloth around Johnson's face, covering his eyes before three officers pick him up by his feet and arms and carry him into the elevator.

Batista declined to say whether Johnson was being uncooperative. He did say, "Just for the casual observer this isn't going to look right."


One of Johnson's lawyers raised concerns about past police incidents.

"This is terrible for Mesa police culture, and we're going to be doing everything we can to pursue justice for our client," said Taylor, one of the lawyers representing Johnson. "Mesa has a culture of police brutality, and this affects all people. that live in Mesa and travel through Mesa. and this culture needs to be cleaned up immediately."

Batista said that this incident prompted him to begin changing the department's policy on use of force to prevent another case like this. Also, he said, that there will be a new "stringent" policy to have officers report use-of-force cases more thoroughly.

The new policies weren't immediately available. It's unclear whether the officers detailed the use of force applied to Johnson in their reports, which were not immediately released on Monday.

Other use-of-force cases

Mesa police have been criticized for other use-of-force incidents in the past year.

In February, the family of an 84-year-old grandmother posted pictures of a woman's bruises after a Mesa police officer grabbed her and took her down. After the pictures went viral on Facebook, Mesa police video showed the takedown. Police had originally said the woman slipped.

In December, after former Mesa police Officer Phillip Brailsford was acquitted by a jury of a second-degree murder charge, a judge allowed the release of unedited footage showing Brailsford fatally shooting a man who was on his knees crying, begging for his life. In that video, taken from police body cameras, a sergeant can be heard yelling commands at the man.

The incident happened in January 2016, but the unedited video was released almost two years later, prompting international outcry on social media.

Link

Fans of softpunching porn will want to click on the link to see the video and the photos of damage done by the take down of the "slipping" granny.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:12 pm

The IRA at the time insisted on being treated as enemy combatants so big boy rules were applied.
That's why IRA prisoners were treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention, right?

You had the military doing law enforcement. That may be OK. (In your country. Something called the Posse Comitatus Act forbids it here.). Shooting unarmed civilians dead without warning is murder.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:18 am

VinnyD wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:06 pm
Do you think those principles were applied in the Gibraltar operation, shunter? I think shooting unarmed people dead without warning is contrary to those principles, myself.

My point is that both countries have good principles but that not every individual acts on them in every case.
they were fucking terrorists vinny, rabid dogs needing to be shot on sight, same way you did with osama, was he armed when they busted into his room? no.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 am

They were not actually rabid dogs, dBrother.

We haven't established whether those principles apply to the SAS when they are acting as law-enforcement officers.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by simon_in_exile » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:07 am

Are you comparing this to an almost 21 year-old sober girl with an unopened bottle near her who, while hanging out with her 18 month old baby, was violently assaulted by a group of thugs wearing police uniform?

Get a fucking grip vinny.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:08 am

Where did you get the idea I was comparing the two situations, simon? Not from anything I wrote. You might want to read what I wrote again.

I think you just compared them, but I never did.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:51 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 am
They were not actually rabid dogs, dBrother.

We haven't established whether those principles apply to the SAS when they are acting as law-enforcement officers.
The SAS aren’t really law enforcement officers and the IRA werent in Gibraltar on holiday.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Kilombo » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:44 pm

shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:51 pm
VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 am
They were not actually rabid dogs, dBrother.

We haven't established whether those principles apply to the SAS when they are acting as law-enforcement officers.
The SAS aren’t really law enforcement officers and the IRA werent in Gibraltar on holiday.
Gibraltar should be part of Spain
Prost!

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:30 pm

Well it’s not, so tough shit.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:38 pm

shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:51 pm
VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 am
They were not actually rabid dogs, dBrother.

We haven't established whether those principles apply to the SAS when they are acting as law-enforcement officers.
The SAS aren’t really law enforcement officers and the IRA werent in Gibraltar on holiday.
All's fair in love and war.

It was Thatcher who incorrectly considered the IRA to be simply criminals and not soldiers.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:30 am

It was under Thatcher that these members of a criminal organization were murdered.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:50 am

Yes, Vinny.
Im aware of the timeline.

Did your mother drop you on your head?


What an unbelievable fucking cunt

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Stephen_Dedalus
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:54 am

Seriously now

Are you autistic?

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leela
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by leela » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:58 am

Vinny likes to tell nationals of countries that aren't his, about their own countries. I'm really not sure why he does this. I can only think that he thinks we're very ignorant.

The above was a particularly egregious example, though.
Pass the wine...

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by mad hatter » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:10 am

he's 70 and going a bit la la.
Anyone can go by horse or rail, but the absolute best way to travel is by hat.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:00 am

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:38 pm
shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:51 pm
VinnyD wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:17 am
They were not actually rabid dogs, dBrother.

We haven't established whether those principles apply to the SAS when they are acting as law-enforcement officers.
The SAS aren’t really law enforcement officers and the IRA werent in Gibraltar on holiday.
All's fair in love and war.

It was Thatcher who incorrectly considered the IRA to be simply criminals and not soldiers.
I think she got that right. The fact your aims are political doesn’t of itself make you a soldier.
1988: "We have a climate in Britain in which business wants to succeed and can succeed." Margaret Thatcher, speech to launch the European Single Market

2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:06 am

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:50 am
Yes, Vinny.
Im aware of the timeline.

Did your mother drop you on your head?


What an unbelievable fucking cunt
His point is that the SAS were law enforcement officers who should have arrested the criminals and not unlawfully killed them. That may or may not be correct but I would think the vast majority of Gibraltarians would be fine with the army shooting dead terrorists. I know I am. You’ve got to expect this sort of thing to happen if you join a terrorist organisation.
1988: "We have a climate in Britain in which business wants to succeed and can succeed." Margaret Thatcher, speech to launch the European Single Market

2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Usher73 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:33 am

leela wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:58 am
Vinny likes to tell nationals of countries that aren't his, about their own countries. I'm really not sure why he does this. I can only think that he thinks we're very ignorant.

The above was a particularly egregious example, though.
This thread was started with a post telling nationals of a country not the OP's about their own country.

If everyone stopped doing that, Talk Politics could be shut down.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:42 am

Leela, you quoted the principles that apply in the UK to use of force by law enforcemen, comparing it to the US (i.e., telling us about our own country).

I said that US law enforcement agencies had similar principles, but that they were not always followed by law enforcement of either country.

I think I'm right. So far no one has answered the question I asked: whether those principles apply to the SAS when it is carrying out a law enforcement action. (You will notice that I asked, rather than telling you whether they did or not. Do you know the answer?)

The context for reminding Stephen that Thatcher was PM at the time of the Gibraltar murders was that he was apparantly trying to excuse the SAS from following bding required to follow the guidelines on the grounds that it was a military action, and that only the Thatcher government maintained that actions against the IRA were law enforcement actions, not war. But if the Thatcher government maintained that, then they were obliged to apply law enforcement guidelines. You can't excuse the Thatcher government by saying that everyone but them thought of it as war. They are the ones who count.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:48 am

shunter wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:06 am
Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:50 am
Yes, Vinny.
Im aware of the timeline.

Did your mother drop you on your head?


What an unbelievable fucking cunt
His point is that the SAS were law enforcement officers who should have arrested the criminals and not unlawfully killed them. That may or may not be correct but I would think the vast majority of Gibraltarians would be fine with the army shooting dead terrorists. I know I am. You’ve got to expect this sort of thing to happen if you join a terrorist organisation.
I understand what he was alluding to.

I don't need a twat such as yourself who has shown himself to be ignorant of anything outside the M25 mansplaining it to me.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:52 am

It was 1988

I'm aware of the timeline.

My post was too subtle for you Vincent

I will put in full disclaimers in future

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