FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

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leela
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FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by leela » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:06 pm

So when this first came to light, the police claimed that all sorts of behaviours on her part led to her being punched in the head (and punching anyone in the head is no part of ANY restraint policy, anywhere, but that's beside the point).

So now we see what really happened. She wasn't rude, she didn't yell, she was simply assertive about the fact that she'd done nothing wrong.
I really don't get how the police think that taking her down at the point that they did, was okay. Okay enough to do what they did quite publically, in front of witnesses, and then lie about it. She hadn't kicked anyone, she hadn't spat at anyone (though she spat sand out of her mouth once they had her down, and obviously resisted after she'd been punched) I don't think she hit anyone. But she pushed her hands out to keep the officer from touching her, and they seem to be using that as an excuse.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ly-weinman
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:24 pm

What country?
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:43 pm

She looks kinda, dark skinned though..
That's usually enough.
At least a good tan anyway.

When did ameriKKKa officially become a fascist pig state nation anyhow?

Was it really all down to sirhan sirhan ?
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Lime_Pickle » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:56 pm

She's a pretty girl in a bikini who wasn't sufficiently 'respectful' (she didn't giggle, simper or twirl her hair) to an asshole copper and objected to being used to cop (fnar, fnar) a feel. What a bitch.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by leela » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:06 pm

I really don't understand why those officers felt the need to escalate the issue in the first place. The alcohol was unopened, she had a clean breathalyser result (and she co-operated perfectly with that), and the only problem was that the alcohol was visible to others. Why not just say, "okay - we're not happy with that bottle being in sight. Please put it in your bag."?

It seems that where our cops will de-escalate minor infringement situations like that, it wouldn't occur to most US cops to even think that way.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:18 pm

British cops are pretty good Leela..
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by rider5 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:21 pm

Yeah that's bad but not unusual for the police in America.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by vanceen » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:23 pm

leela wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:06 pm
...

It seems that where our cops will de-escalate minor infringement situations like that, it wouldn't occur to most US cops to even think that way.
In that case, why do you think this was a nationally covered news story?

The frequency with which police resort to violence and the militarization of their tactics is a big concern. But "most" US cops never do anything of the sort. We need to get better at weeding out those who do.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by eric84 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:31 pm

A twenty year old with unopened alcohol on the beach is clearly a major problem.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by leela » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:36 pm

vanceen wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:23 pm
leela wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:06 pm
...

It seems that where our cops will de-escalate minor infringement situations like that, it wouldn't occur to most US cops to even think that way.
In that case, why do you think this was a nationally covered news story?

The frequency with which police resort to violence and the militarization of their tactics is a big concern. But "most" US cops never do anything of the sort. We need to get better at weeding out those who do.
It was a national news story because he punched her in the head. But they escalated the situation long before that, and that alone wouldn''t have been a story at all.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:38 pm

vanceen wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:23 pm
But "most" US cops never do anything of the sort
Yes, probably over 50% of our cops are just fine. That still leaves us with a huge problem that needs to be addressed. There needs to be accountability for this kind of shit, and more often than not, there isn't.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:41 pm

your cops are trained to be brutal bastards..

you see a group of cops witnessing another cop beating a civilian, do you think in a million years they're gunna intervene (apart from to help administer a beating) or bear witness against that cop??

no..

this pretty much makes them all criminals after the fact..
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by vanceen » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 pm

Steve_in_Exile wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:38 pm
vanceen wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:23 pm
But "most" US cops never do anything of the sort
Yes, probably over 50% of our cops are just fine. That still leaves us with a huge problem that needs to be addressed. There needs to be accountability for this kind of shit, and more often than not, there isn't.
I agree, although I think 50% is far too low.

In this case, there is a question of whether the request for her surname was something she was legally required to comply with. If not, they should simply be charged with assault.

Even if the request was binding, the way they handled the arrest was unquestionably excessive, and they should be disciplined. I wouldn't be surprised if they are.

But this is relatively trivial compared with confiscations and even worse, the people who actually get killed.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:46 pm

It seems that where our cops will de-escalate minor infringement situations like that, it wouldn't occur to most US cops to even think that way.
Link to your source abot most Us cops, please.

Same request for rider and dBrother.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:48 pm

punching a young woman whose having a pleasant harmless day out on the beach in the face is trivial?

s'pose so..





vinny, dealt with brit cops, have cousins that are brit cops, they are really pretty easy going, bit racist to be sure, if you had to deal with troublesome drunken disrespectful pakis as part of your job you would be too,, but mostly easy going, well english cops anyhow, norn irish ones are a bit overboard.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:55 pm

vanceen wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 pm
In this case, there is a question of whether the request for her surname was something she was legally required to comply with. If not, they should simply be charged with assault
She is being charged with assault on a police officer. They are on administrative leave.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:56 pm

dBrother wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:41 pm
your cops are trained to be brutal bastards..

you see a group of cops witnessing another cop beating a civilian, do you think in a million years they're gunna intervene (apart from to help administer a beating) or bear witness against that cop??

no..

this pretty much makes them all criminals after the fact..
Steve_in_Exile wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:55 pm

She is being charged with assault on a police officer. They are on administrative leave.
any other cops witness all this?

does their evidence contradict third party video evidence..

if so then....?
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:58 pm

The police say she kicked on officer in the groin, but I didn't see that on tape and not sure if it happened or not. If so, it certainly wouldn't have happened until after they "dropped" her, and at that point I think she should have a right to claim self defense. What a bunch of fucking pricks those cops are beating up a woman like that. This shit has to stop and the democratic process has to be used to stop it. Mayors have to know that they will get voted out of office if they can't reign in their asshole cops.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:00 pm

all this police brutality never used to happen before they invented these darned video cameras everyone carrys nowadays...


where's north american?

he literally used to brush up photos of brused and battered suspects..

on behalf of the filth.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Homerj » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:02 pm

Sorry but I am with Vinny on this one....almost every single person has a cell phone with a camera on them now...there are millions of police officers in the USA...and yet these types of events garner national attention because they are rare.
I have a very heavy foot while driving so probably have more interaction with police than most folks.
Inevitably you get mostly guys/gals just doing their jobs.
I have also encountered cops who want to be the big swinging dick in most countries (this is not an American thing).
Also unlike cops in pretty much every other country US cops have to deal with a much higher likelyhood of the person they are stopping/interacting with being armed.
These cops are assholes and should be fired, but to make a blanket statement that this is US law enforcement in a nutshell is BS
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by dBrother » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:08 pm

Homerj wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:02 pm
Sorry but I am with Vinny on this one....almost every single person has a cell phone with a camera on them now...there are millions of police officers in the USA...and yet these types of events garner national attention because they are rare.
I have a very heavy foot while driving so probably have more interaction with police than most folks.
Inevitably you get mostly guys/gals just doing their jobs.
I have also encountered cops who want to be the big swinging dick in most countries (this is not an American thing).
Also unlike cops in pretty much every other country US cops have to deal with a much higher likelyhood of the person they are stopping/interacting with being armed.
These cops are assholes and should be fired, but to make a blanket statement that this is US law enforcement in a nutshell is BS

dBrother wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:41 pm
you see a group of cops witnessing another cop beating a civilian, do you think in a million years they're gunna intervene (apart from to help administer a beating) or bear witness against that cop??

no..

this pretty much makes them all criminals after the fact..
No cop will ever break this code of honour amonst themselves if they want to stay in the job.

bearing false witness is criminal

therefore most cops are criminal.

dont get me wrong some people deserve a good beating by the cops, just like some criminals deserve to be shot on sight even if they cant get enough evidence to convict, but know they done it anyhow, that's all cool, but their code of honour to each other is above and beyond whether the beating, or shooting, recipient deserves it or not, regardless they'll stick together.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Homerj » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:13 pm

No argument about the thin blue line...I'm just saying my guess is I've had more interaction with US police than most (including getting chucked in jail) and overall they haven't treated me any different than cops anywhere else.
We have great cops here in Ontario, but the Mounties in Western Canada are just pricks.
Same country, different reactions/cops.
I don't think the US is any different.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by incognita » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:19 pm

There was plenty of abuse and brutality before the cell phone cams. But cops always made it seem like it was justified. Now people are seeing the other side of the story. Still, in comments elsewhere, the cops are being defended because she 'resisted' by insisting on her rights.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Lime_Pickle » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:26 pm

Oh, and there are British cops with a similar attitude to the asshole in the video, don't doubt that. I've met some of them.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:47 pm

dBrother wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:08 pm
dont get me wrong some people deserve a good beating by the cops, just like some criminals deserve to be shot on sight even if they cant get enough evidence to convict, but know they done it anyhow, that's all cool
1 out of 10 on the troll meter, douchBro--that was way to transparent.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:52 pm

dBrother, is the statement for which I wanted a link to the source of your information:
your cops are trained to be brutal bastards.
No amount of experience with British cops can support that statement.

So, link?

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:08 pm

Don't rely on this, but a minute's research indicates that she was required to identify herself.

Throughout the US, a cop can briefly detain you, question you, and frisk you if he has a reasonable suspicion that an offense has been or is about to be committed (a "Terry stop"). Reasonable suspicion is less than probably cause, and assuming it is an offense to drink on this beach, the bottle probably gives rise to reasonable suspicion. Whether you are required to identify yourself in a valid Terry stop varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but in New Jersey it is an offense not to. The Supreme Court has upheld such laws.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:50 pm

eric84 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:31 pm
A twenty year old with unopened alcohol on the beach is clearly a major problem.
That’s against the law? Is it even possible to live your life legally in the US if there laws like that? That’s dumber than jaywalking as an offence
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:52 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:08 pm
Don't rely on this, but a minute's research indicates that she was required to identify herself.

Throughout the US, a cop can briefly detain you, question you, and frisk you if he has a reasonable suspicion that an offense has been or is about to be committed (a "Terry stop"). Reasonable suspicion is less than probably cause, and assuming it is an offense to drink on this beach, the bottle probably gives rise to reasonable suspicion. Whether you are required to identify yourself in a valid Terry stop varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but in New Jersey it is an offense not to. The Supreme Court has upheld such laws.
The whole thing is insane - let’s not try and pretend there's any rationality to any of this
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by rider5 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:53 pm

shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:50 pm
eric84 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:31 pm
A twenty year old with unopened alcohol on the beach is clearly a major problem.
That’s against the law? Is it even possible to live your life legally in the US if there laws like that? That’s dumber than jaywalking as an offence
Careful now. Are you trying to summon FreeSpeechMan to this thread?

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:58 pm

Shunter: I was responding to this from vanceen: "In this case, there is a question of whether the request for her surname was something she was legally required to comply with. If not, they should simply be charged with assault."

It seems she was legally required to identify herself in the circumstances.

Rider, no, it doesn't seem that the unopened bottle was against the law.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by 2wilzgood » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:02 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:52 pm
dBrother, is the statement for which I wanted a link to the source of your information:
your cops are trained to be brutal bastards.
No amount of experience with British cops can support that statement.

So, link?
NPR, in fact WYPR, just spent the last hour reporting on this precise subject. See/hear today's episode of Reveal/ APM Reports. The gist is that it is all down to state and local standards, but de-escalation training takes place in a very small percentage of police departments. Use of Lethal Force courses are, however, Very Popular, Nationwide.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:03 pm

rider5 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:53 pm
shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:50 pm
eric84 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:31 pm
A twenty year old with unopened alcohol on the beach is clearly a major problem.
That’s against the law? Is it even possible to live your life legally in the US if there laws like that? That’s dumber than jaywalking as an offence
Careful now. Are you trying to summon FreeSpeechMan to this thread?
Anything but that. Anything but a Rights-off.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by 2wilzgood » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:09 pm

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Logg » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:11 pm

leela wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:06 pm
I really don't understand why those officers felt the need to escalate the issue in the first place. The alcohol was unopened, she had a clean breathalyser result (and she co-operated perfectly with that), and the only problem was that the alcohol was visible to others. Why not just say, "okay - we're not happy with that bottle being in sight. Please put it in your bag."?

It seems that where our cops will de-escalate minor infringement situations like that, it wouldn't occur to most US cops to even think that way.
Your own link says she was underage. She shouldn't have alcohol period. She was basically telling them to fuck off and be on their way. Kind of cheeky to take that attitude with cops when you're on the beach with alcohol and under 21.

Some genius on this thread said that it's because she's a pretty girl who didn't act cute enough. What kind of stupid shit is that? If the girl had been black, we'd have a whole jury of experts decrying this as irrefutable proof of American police racism.

Remember the good old days we so often lament now, before cops needed to resort to lethal force at every provocation? Well, here it is.

Sometimes the wisdom of the crowd is actually quite stupid. The takeaway from this incident vis a vis the general topic of American cops should be that they're mean to white people too, and they don't always resort to deadly force.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by eric84 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:13 pm

Yahoo, ever so grateful they didn't kill the 20 year old sober girl for having unopened beer in her possession.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by korgy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:14 pm

vanceen wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 pm
In this case, there is a question of whether the request for her surname was something she was legally required to comply with. If not, they should simply be charged with assault.
whether or not she was legally required to give her name, the cops assaulted her and should be fired and charged with assault.
Even if the request was binding, the way they handled the arrest was unquestionably excessive, and they should be disciplined. I wouldn't be surprised if they are.
"disciplined"??
But this is relatively trivial compared with confiscations and even worse, the people who actually get killed.
whether or not people have been killed by police is totally irrelevant. given that you claim to be all about logic, you seem very illogical quite often on this board.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:16 pm

That’s a dumb consolation for dumb people, logg The message here is that when laws are inherently stupid, it’s difficult to rigidly enforce them for no good reason and plain dumb to try. But yeah noone got shot, so great.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by leela » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:19 pm

Your own link says she was underage. She shouldn't have alcohol period.
So under 21 year olds can't be in the vicinity of other people's unopened alcohol?
Pass the wine...

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Logg » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:21 pm

shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:16 pm
That’s a dumb consolation for dumb people, logg The message here is that when laws are inherently stupid, it’s difficult to rigidly enforce them for no good reason and plain dumb to try. But yeah noone got shot, so great.
Is that the message? First I've heard of it on this thread.

But yes, I figured the next response would be along the lines of, 'what kind of savage nation has a 21 year old drinking age?'

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by korgy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:26 pm

Logg wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:11 pm
Your own link says she was underage. She shouldn't have alcohol period. She was basically telling them to fuck off and be on their way. Kind of cheeky to take that attitude with cops when you're on the beach with alcohol and under 21.
nothing like blaming the victim Stu. 'she deserved it because she was cheeky.'

(sometimes cliches are cliche because they are true. but of course why be truthful when you have a chance to prove you are an original thnker. right Stu?)
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Logg » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:28 pm

leela wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:19 pm
Your own link says she was underage. She shouldn't have alcohol period.
So under 21 year olds can't be in the vicinity of other people's unopened alcohol?
I don't know what the laws are on that beach. There isn't much background info either. Every teenager caught with alcohol probably says something along the lines of, "It's not mine....it's my aunt's....she's not here right now....no, I don't know when she's coming back," and in this case: "you want my last name? Fuck you, keep walking."

What I don't understand is how the cop knows she's underage but doesn't know her last name. Seems like an ID would answer both questions. If she's not giving him an ID, how does he know she's under 21? The timeline isn't exactly clear to me.

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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:30 pm

21 is of course too old for a legal drinking age but not drinking on the beach is also stupid. In fact everything about this is stupid. Believe it or not a 21 yr old drinking in a beach does not require violent state intervention in a sane world.
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:36 pm

korgy wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:26 pm
Logg wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:11 pm
Your own link says she was underage. She shouldn't have alcohol period. She was basically telling them to fuck off and be on their way. Kind of cheeky to take that attitude with cops when you're on the beach with alcohol and under 21.
nothing like blaming the victim Stu. 'she deserved it because she was cheeky.'

(sometimes cliches are cliche because they are true. but of course why be truthful when you have a chance to prove you are an original thnker. right Stu?)
Is there a legal obligation to be polite to the police??
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2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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mad hatter
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by mad hatter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:37 pm

US cops seem like an organised crime syndicit but without the discipline and PR skills
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VinnyD
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by VinnyD » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:38 pm

I was going to link to that Reveal episode, 2wilz.

The 2wilz link is worth checking out.

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Scrubb
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Scrubb » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:40 pm

The video in the link suggested that she told them the booze was her aunt's who was going to be back at the tent soon. Sure, it's the story anyone would tell. Cops could easily have said ok, we'll just wait till she gets here.

The police deserve to be charged with assault, IMO. And I completely agree with leela that it was a ridiculous escalation of a completely low-grade incident. They so easily could have been reasonable and instead they blew the whole thing up.
Boinkity_Boink isn't much of an idiot

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Paddox1
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Paddox1 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:54 pm

rider5 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:53 pm
shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:50 pm
eric84 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:31 pm
A twenty year old with unopened alcohol on the beach is clearly a major problem.
That’s against the law? Is it even possible to live your life legally in the US if there laws like that? That’s dumber than jaywalking as an offence
Careful now. Are you trying to summon FreeSpeechMan to this thread?
But America is The Greatest Nation in the World because of Free Speech. Period chunks.

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Moethebartender
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Re: FFS. Seriously, this is so disturbing

Post by Moethebartender » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:12 pm

I'm sorry Limeys, lesser Limeys and desert hermits, but is walking around with booze on the beach really a matter of free speech? You fuckers really don't understand the concept, do you?

These cops appear to be thugs. Lots of them are. Based on the available evidence, they ought to be charged.
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