Another Ford

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northern_goddess
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Re: Another Ford

Post by northern_goddess » Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 pm

coffeeguy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:39 pm
June 7
Thanks. So a little while yet.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by RainbowFrizz » Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 pm

I'm going to reiterate what i said earlier, if the party had elected Christine Elliot with all the same platforms as Doug Ford we'd be sailing our way to a majority, but it's much easier to focus on the person than the much more difficult and involved task of focussing on the issues.
I would have trusted Christine Elliot. Doug Ford is a jackass and a bully. I don't trust him to keep his promises.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by coffeeguy » Fri May 25, 2018 3:07 pm

There is no way any of them can deliver what they are saying - the NDP is going to need massive tax hikes to pay for all thieir promises and Ford will need massive cuts to pay for his. And we know how much we can trust the liberals accounting. That’s the saddest joke of all with this election - the electorate is being treated like idiots, and perhaps we deserve it.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Fri May 25, 2018 7:58 pm

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/three-o ... iscipline/

This economist has costed out each party's plans: NDP one would give ON a lower projected deficit than the Liberal plan and the PC would have the worst impact on the budget.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by BulletPark » Fri May 25, 2018 8:21 pm

Can any Canadian point to anything that Rob Ford did other than stuff himself with drugs and food and blow shit out his asshole?

And if so, can they explain why Doug will/will not be more of the same?

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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Fri May 25, 2018 8:26 pm

No, but Doug is probably meaner and nastier than Rob.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by SeamusMcCool » Fri May 25, 2018 10:25 pm

Yep, Rob was the user Doug is the pusher. There have been some unflattering rumours out there about Doug's past.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by SeamusMcCool » Fri May 25, 2018 10:29 pm

Again what I don't get is the fucking nutjobs came out of the weeds after Trump was elected and kicked the tires for the federal Conservative party and membership wisely sent them back under the bridges where they belong. How could the provincial membership fuck up so royally a leadership selection with what should have been an easy stroll to a majority government?

I don't care really how good Wynne is and I suspect she's much better than her critics give her credit for but 15 years is enough and it's time for fresh blood, but fuck you Provincial Cons for presenting me that pile of mullet dung as an alternative.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by sodelicious » Fri May 25, 2018 10:32 pm

So Seamus, do you hold your nose and vote for the NDP, or do you abstain?
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Re: Another Ford

Post by northern_goddess » Fri May 25, 2018 10:35 pm

Celebrity status, good or bad, seems to carry a lot of weight with people for some reason. It's weird and terribly unfortunate but that seems to be the case. Look at Trump becoming the candidate (and then the President) in the States and he's not the first celebrity to do that. The same thing is now happening in Canada. And the crazy thing is that Doug isn't even really the celebrity. His dead brother Rob was.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by SeamusMcCool » Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 pm

sodelicious wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:32 pm
So Seamus, do you hold your nose and vote for the NDP, or do you abstain?
I can't abstain that would be irresponsible in my opinion. What I'll likely do is give my MPP candidates a closer look and hope one stands out and let things fall as they may. That's the closest I can come to abstaining.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by SeamusMcCool » Fri May 25, 2018 10:39 pm

Solid points, NOGs, I agree.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by coffeeguy » Sat May 26, 2018 1:42 pm

Read the comments section in the National Post or Toronto sun and you’ll see the type of people that belong to the Conservative party and select the leader. No surprise at all that ford got selected - they thought Christine Elliott was a godless commie. They make the right wing nutters on here look sane. That’s the problem with our candidate selection process.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Sat May 26, 2018 2:07 pm

Crazies are always the more motivated part of a party. Moderates are too apathetic. Delegated conventions may be the best way to go.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by coffeeguy » Sat May 26, 2018 2:10 pm

They’ve got to fix the issue of instant members highjacking a nomination meeting

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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Sun May 27, 2018 5:58 pm

Dollar beer, people. Ontario Tories have given up.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:11 pm

Speaking of giving up, Wynne says she won’t win. Er, why would anyone vote for you now? This is a novel political tactic.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by BulletPark » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:02 pm

New York Post headline: CUNT WYNNE CAN'T WIN

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Re: Another Ford

Post by coffeeguy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:59 pm

eric84 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:11 pm
Speaking of giving up, Wynne says she won’t win. Er, why would anyone vote for you now? This is a novel political tactic.
She’s hoping by sacrificing herself she can save the party. Let’s see if it works. I know people who are considerIng voting liberal to block either the NDP or PCs from a majority.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:33 pm

coffeeguy wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:59 pm
eric84 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:11 pm
Speaking of giving up, Wynne says she won’t win. Er, why would anyone vote for you now? This is a novel political tactic.
She’s hoping by sacrificing herself she can save the party. Let’s see if it works. I know people who are considerIng voting liberal to block either the NDP or PCs from a majority.
As I say, it’s unique. The problem is most liberal voters thought wynne would win. If she’s saying she won’t, there’s no purpose for the liberals. They’re not like ndpers. They vote liberal for power.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:09 pm

The logic being the folks who were running Liberal were getting creamed at the door and on phone polls, I won'tvote for you because of her.
Take her out of the equation and they believe the individual Liberals have a better chance.
Will it works...who knows...unfortunately its a double edged sword....if the Libs still get decent support that pretty much ensures a Con victory, but it somehow validates her disasterous run as premier.
If it doesn't work and they get cremated then it makes the likelihood of an even more disasterous event...the NDP getting elected.
The upside is the 'dippers didn't think they'd be running against Ford, so they are very late to the ground game, something that the Cons do better than any party here in Ontario.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:15 pm

Homerj wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:09 pm
The logic being the folks who were running Liberal were getting creamed at the door and on phone polls, I won'tvote for you because of her.
Take her out of the equation and they believe the individual Liberals have a better chance.
Will it works...who knows...unfortunately its a double edged sword....if the Libs still get decent support that pretty much ensures a Con victory, but it somehow validates her disasterous run as premier.
If it doesn't work and they get cremated then it makes the likelihood of an even more disasterous event...the NDP getting elected.
The upside is the 'dippers didn't think they'd be running against Ford, so they are very late to the ground game, something that the Cons do better than any party here in Ontario.
Well, if the logic is Wynne is the problem, then you have to hide her not make her the story. Again, this is such a puzzling strategy to me. Wynne is running more against the NDP because she knows that's where her party's salvation lies in stealing votes from the NDP and then setting themselves up to be the alternative to Ford the next time around. Very cynical strategy.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:29 pm

Agree, I think if I was running under the Liberal banner I'd be pissed that my leader just threw in the towel, but I'm not sure you can fathom just how unpopular she is if you don't live in the province.
My big worry is this....if Dougie wins he's gonna have to do an awfully good job to get re-elected in 4 years.
If he doesn't win will the party stop being so thick headed and electing angry white guys as their leader.
I can't remember the last time I was so un-involved in an election, and I truly believe an NDP govt. would be a disaster, but its really really hard getting behind Dougie.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:33 pm

Oh, I get the unpopularity. Very similar to Manitoba when Selinger ran in 2016. He really had no chance and should have quit like Wynne. He left the party in an utter shambles which looks to be what Wynne is doing.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:38 pm

Agree Wynne should have cut her losses and let another leader run.
However both the Libs and 'dippers thought they would be competing against Christine Elliot and thus it would have been a battle for 2nd, so who cares?
Dougie was the gift that just keeps on giving.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:46 pm

Elliott would have wiped the floor and won easily. This has been a terrible campaign by the Tories and yet they still might get a majority
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:08 pm

Trust me there are lots of folks just like me who wish that was the case.
The Lib's are just too loathed and the 'dippers just too radical - they also did a fairly shit job of vetting their candidates.
Interestingly I think it will be a rather benign campaign promise that does in Ms. Horwath (who's run a pretty good campaign) - she said she will never invoke back to work legislation.
That seems top have done more damage to her than any of the outlandish spending promises she has made.
All I hope is that if Dougie does win , Ms. Elliot is a star (ala Paul Martin) as finance minister and can succeed him in 2022.

However i witnessed some true lefty short sideness the other day.
So I go to my local pot dispensary to get me some edibles and they have a BIG Andrea Horwath sign in the window.
So I asked the manager who's idea that was and he said one of the staffs.
To say he was chagrined is an understatement when I pulled up her website on my phone only to find that if elected she will hand the pot dispensary business to the LCBO (liquor control board) thus putting everyone there out of work.
I also told him only Doug Ford will allow private dispensaries to remain.
So I asked him would he be putting up a Ford sign/
I told him I'd look for it on my next visit.
He laughed but did take the Andrea Horwath sign down right away.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:15 pm

Homerj wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:08 pm
Trust me there are lots of folks just like me who wish that was the case.
The Lib's are just too loathed and the 'dippers just too radical - they also did a fairly shit job of vetting their candidates.
Interestingly I think it will be a rather benign campaign promise that does in Ms. Horwath (who's run a pretty good campaign) - she said she will never invoke back to work legislation.
That seems top have done more damage to her than any of the outlandish spending promises she has made.
All I hope is that if Dougie does win , Ms. Elliot is a star (ala Paul Martin) as finance minister and can succeed him in 2022.

However i witnessed some true lefty short sideness the other day.
So I go to my local pot dispensary to get me some edibles and they have a BIG Andrea Horwath sign in the window.
So I asked the manager who's idea that was and he said one of the staffs.
To say he was chagrined is an understatement when I pulled up her website on my phone only to find that if elected she will hand the pot dispensary business to the LCBO (liquor control board) thus putting everyone there out of work.
I also told him only Doug Ford will allow private dispensaries to remain.
So I asked him would he be putting up a Ford sign/
I told him I'd look for it on my next visit.
He laughed but did take the Andrea Horwath sign down right away.
I don't understand, frankly, why the Canadian modern right doesn't look at cannabis legalization as a real business opportunity. The Manitoba Premier has been a shrieking church lady about the issue, using it to bash Trudeau. Very dumb.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:22 pm

Dougie is to his credit.
We already have dispensaries here in Ont. by the hundreds.
Why put all these people out of work?
Makes no sense.
But I agree with you whole heartedly...but the explanation is simple....30%+ of the party are so-cons, so we have to go along with their shrieking to get elected.
Look at the best of times we have 40-42% of the population who says they lean right, so we are always at a disadvantage...the only advantage is there is only 1 right wing party so no vote splitting a la Alberta before the demise of Wild Rose.
If the so-cons split off and formed their own party then we would never form a govt.
So shrieking is a price to pay to get elected.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:29 pm

Homerj wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:22 pm
Dougie is to his credit.
We already have dispensaries here in Ont. by the hundreds.
Why put all these people out of work?
Makes no sense.
But I agree with you whole heartedly...but the explanation is simple....30%+ of the party are so-cons, so we have to go along with their shrieking to get elected.
Look at the best of times we have 40-42% of the population who says they lean right, so we are always at a disadvantage...the only advantage is there is only 1 right wing party so no vote splitting a la Alberta before the demise of Wild Rose.
If the so-cons split off and formed their own party then we would never form a govt.
So shrieking is a price to pay to get elected.
Yeah, I think this was more about Manitoba where the Tories are the modern right party in town. Pallister's in charge and doesn't have to worry about so-cons but he just can't resist the opportunity to take a shot at the federal liberals. He's just weird.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:46 pm

He's not that weird Eric....I am sick and tired of the party sending me daily emails about what fucked up thing Trudeau has done now/today.
I already don't like the guy and will never vote for him...but fer chrissakes...tell me what the party plans to do instead of just harping on what a tool Trudeau is.
I guess this kind of simple minded populism helps with fund raising but it doesn't sway me.
As is evident I am becoming less and less enamored with politics each day.
I would have worked hard to get Christine Elliott elected, instead in this election I gave $150 to my local candidate and that is it.
I haven't done a damn thing more....sad really.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:57 pm

It probably isn't weird anymore, true. A lot of political staff come from different provinces and are much more partisan which feels strange for Manitoba which is a pretty moderate consensus driven place.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:11 pm

So Rob Ford's wife is suing Doug Ford. Sounds like Douggie ran the business into the ground. Gosh, you should definitely then make him Premier of Ontario!
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:32 pm

It would be amazing if the ghost of Rob Ford would cause his brother to lose the election and let the socialists win.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Scrubb » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:54 pm

Yeah, Brad Wall was really dragging his feet with the pot legalization stuff too - trying to force the date to slide because we couldn't possibly be ready in time; and he also made a zero-tolerance driving policy, which basically means a choice between pot and driving, since it stays in your system for so long. I haven't heard much about it since the election so maybe Moe is going to make it work for the province.

I guess we do have a larger so-con contingent who are not happy about drugs being legal, but I think any premier would have been better served by getting an advantageous plan in place than in trying to throw up roadblocks.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:09 pm

The Lib's are just too loathed and the 'dippers just too radical - they also did a fairly shit job of vetting their candidates.
...and then there's the extreme vetting of the Tories for picking their leader. Hoo boy.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by coffeeguy » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:15 am

eric84 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:32 pm
It would be amazing if the ghost of Rob Ford would cause his brother to lose the election and let the socialists win.
This is a potentially game changing story, basically Renata is accusing Doug of cheating her out of her inheritance and running Deco into the ground - that the whole idea of Doug as a successful businessperson is an illusion. Even if it is half true, it could be extremely damaging. Thinking a lot of the PC soft vote will think whether they really want to put Doug on the throne... Question is where does it migrate to - will blue liberals (like me) what were going to hold their nose and vote Ford, go back to the Liberals? Hard to see many of them going NDP. Will lower middle class outside GTA go NDP? A couple of days ago it was looking PC majority, I'm smelling minority now, even an NDP minority.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:35 pm

eric84 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:11 pm
So Rob Ford's wife is suing Doug Ford. Sounds like Douggie ran the business into the ground. Gosh, you should definitely then make him Premier of Ontario!
Jesus really?
He didn't run the business into the ground, what they did was withhold funds so Rob's druggie/drunk wife didn't benefit from the proceeds.
The kids are trust funded, but she can't get her grubby hands on the $.
The fact that this piece of shit did this 3 days before the election should leave anyone with more than 2 functioning synapses questioning her motives.
But this is a forum where "Doug Ford hates poor people" goes unquestioned.
I reiterate...I weep
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:41 pm

Homerj wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:35 pm
eric84 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:11 pm
So Rob Ford's wife is suing Doug Ford. Sounds like Douggie ran the business into the ground. Gosh, you should definitely then make him Premier of Ontario!
Jesus really?
He didn't run the business into the ground, what they did was withhold funds so Rob's druggie/drunk wife didn't benefit from the proceeds.
The kids are trust funded, but she can't get her grubby hands on the $.
The fact that this piece of shit did this 3 days before the election should leave anyone with more than 2 functioning synapses questioning her motives.
But this is a forum where "Doug Ford hates poor people" goes unquestioned.
I reiterate...I weep
Well, the business seems to lose more and more money with each year Doug and Randy were in charge so it doesn't speak to his business acumen. It wouldn't be the first time the dad builds up a great business, hands it over to the sons and they fuck it up. The lawyer for Renata is not exactly Lionel Hutz either.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:58 pm

First Randy runs the business.
Second the loss of manufacturing in Ontario is much more of an issue as far as Deco's lower sales volume than any claimed mismanagement (before you ask how I know all this...Deco is one of my company's-another division, biggest clients)
Third I would assume any of the Ford family could hire top calibre legal talent so thats no surprise.
Sorry but the claim that this has been going on for 2 years (which may or may not be true) is hardly the point.
The point is making the claim 3 days before the election says nothing to anyone of even the remotest level of intelligence that this is blackmail nothing more.
The simple reason that he didn't settle was because her claim is baseless.
The kids are well looked after and all they were trying to do was to keep her from pissing Rob's money away, otherwise he would have settled when he decided to run to make this go away.
The true issue is does this become a distraction if he's elected.
But even that doesn't worry me much as his team of potential cabinet ministers is so far superior to the other two parties even if Dougie performs as Dougie, his bench will keep things running smoothly.
Something the NDP cannot even come close to claiming.
I'm holding my nose and voting for him because of this reason.
I'm sure lots of other folks aren't thrilled with him either but with his bench and when you consider the alternatives, its no wonder that daily stumbles one after another still have him in the lead.
Maybe CG is right and this will cause folks to reconsider, but I doubt it.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:08 pm

Look, either way, when you vote a Ford into office, you're inviting personal drama which will be a distraction to governing. It's pretty much a guarantee. Torontoians had to suffer the nightmare of Rob and what he would do next, had to strip him of his powers which meant the city wasn't dealing with the big issues of the day.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:17 pm

No argument with you there.
Like I said I am counting on his bench to do the heavy lifting.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by northern_goddess » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pm

Ontario, the mini-America.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by northern_goddess » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:19 pm

Homerj wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:17 pm
Like I said I am counting on his bench to do the heavy lifting.
Let's hope he lets them and that they are capable. Sometimes it's not the elected members you need to either count on or conversely worry about... it's their hired help who actually run the show.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:24 pm

Doesn't work like that anymore. Premier and his office call the policy shots. Cabinet members are mostly yes men and women. They're there because they are loyal to Doug Ford.
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Homerj
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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:49 pm

northern_goddess wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pm
Ontario, the mini-America.
Ha ! Andrea Horwath couldn't even get on the ballot in America.
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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:53 pm

northern_goddess wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pm
Ontario, the mini-America.
Premier Vander Zalm
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by Homerj » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:57 pm

eric84 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:24 pm
Doesn't work like that anymore. Premier and his office call the policy shots. Cabinet members are mostly yes men and women. They're there because they are loyal to Doug Ford.
Don't agree in this case.
2 strong leadership candidates will both be made cabinet ministers if he wins.
If he sidelines them it just makes him look bad.
Granted it may also be sour grapes on my part as my candidate (who is far superior in most every way) didn't win.
What really bothers me is we wouldn't be having any of this conversation if the party had any common sense and had elected someone who would have won no contest.
The upside is even before the Patrick Brown fiasco the party was polling to win which meant strong candidates in many ridings.
I see the NDP winning the 416, Dougie winning the 905 and lets be honest the rest of the province doesn't count for shit.
Even a minority PC win is a win for the left as we all know the Libs will do anything to cling to power- anything but work with Doug Ford.
There is only one silver lining to Ford losing - I don't think we'd keep him as leader, but the thought of an NDP majority is just to frightening to comprehend.
I might actually have to consider that job in Alberta!
I'm going to the back seat of my car, with the woman I love, and I won't be back for ten minutes!

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Re: Another Ford

Post by eric84 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:01 pm

Homerj wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:57 pm
eric84 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:24 pm
Doesn't work like that anymore. Premier and his office call the policy shots. Cabinet members are mostly yes men and women. They're there because they are loyal to Doug Ford.
Don't agree in this case.
2 strong leadership candidates will both be made cabinet ministers if he wins.
If he sidelines them it just makes him look bad.
Granted it may also be sour grapes on my part as my candidate (who is far superior in most every way) didn't win.
What really bothers me is we wouldn't be having any of this conversation if the party had any common sense and had elected someone who would have won no contest.
The upside is even before the Patrick Brown fiasco the party was polling to win which meant strong candidates in many ridings.
I see the NDP winning the 416, Dougie winning the 905 and lets be honest the rest of the province doesn't count for shit.
Even a minority PC win is a win for the left as we all know the Libs will do anything to cling to power- anything but work with Doug Ford.
There is only one silver lining to Ford losing - I don't think we'd keep him as leader, but the thought of an NDP majority is just to frightening to comprehend.
I might actually have to consider that job in Alberta!
Mulroney and Elliott would be on short leashes with Ford staffers micromanaging their every move. Any insubordination and they're gone. Look how quickly he dumped Gracie Allen once she put him over the top. Ford's got a bad temper and impulsive so it wouldn't take much for drama to emerge. That's why he tried to rig the nomination process for ridings to bring in his toadies.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

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Re: Another Ford

Post by Bill Barilko » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:03 pm

eric84 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:53 pm
northern_goddess wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pm
Ontario, the mini-America.
Premier Vander Zalm
'If no one knows about the bribe then it's not against the law'!
Nexus the criminally insane whore/backstabber wrote:You missed the porn site I set up in your name....Shall I send the link to everyone?

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