Late Stage Socialism

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:07 pm

Manchester United fans used to sing (to the tune of Lord of the Dance) this about their Korean player Park ji-Sung:

Park, Park, wherever you may be,
you eat dog in your own country,
but it could be worse,
you could be Scouse,
eating rats in your council house.
“We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” —C.S. Lewis

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:29 pm

Late stage socialism:

the infant mortality rate is higher than Syria. The capital city of Caracas is the murder capital of the world . . . The real cause is the socialist economy. The government sets the price of staples such as rice, pasta, and flour, resulting in chronic shortages. Former President Hugo Chavez nationalized industries, confiscated property, and kicked out foreign companies. The government is trying to print its way out of the crisis, resulting in a 700 percent annual inflation rate.

https://medium.com/@robertstacymccain/s ... 6be1f425f6
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by strife » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:32 pm

Argonheart_Po wrote:Late stage socialism:

the infant mortality rate is higher than Syria. The capital city of Caracas is the murder capital of the world . . . The real cause is the socialist economy. The government sets the price of staples such as rice, pasta, and flour, resulting in chronic shortages. Former President Hugo Chavez nationalized industries, confiscated property, and kicked out foreign companies. The government is trying to print its way out of the crisis, resulting in a 700 percent annual inflation rate.

https://medium.com/@robertstacymccain/s ... 6be1f425f6


Socialism isn't helping Venezuela any, but its corruption and incompetence are even worse.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:46 pm

Late stage socialism:

Women and children selling their hair to make money to buy food.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/wo ... video.html
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Wellpisser » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:33 pm

strife wrote:
Argonheart_Po wrote:Late stage socialism:

the infant mortality rate is higher than Syria. The capital city of Caracas is the murder capital of the world . . . The real cause is the socialist economy. The government sets the price of staples such as rice, pasta, and flour, resulting in chronic shortages. Former President Hugo Chavez nationalized industries, confiscated property, and kicked out foreign companies. The government is trying to print its way out of the crisis, resulting in a 700 percent annual inflation rate.

https://medium.com/@robertstacymccain/s ... 6be1f425f6


Socialism isn't helping Venezuela any, but its corruption and incompetence are even worse.



The two go hand in hand

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Default inches closer. Vice President is a drug smuggler:

Venezuela has summoned bondholders for negotiations in Caracas on November 13, but the talks are expected to yield little. Indeed, US investors will be wary of even attending, given that the person leading the Venezuelan side of the talks, vice-president Tareck El Aissami, has been sanctioned by the US Treasury as an alleged drug smuggler.

None of the big rating agencies have formally declared a default yet, but S&P Global Ratings on Monday lowered the country’s rating to CC, the second-lowest rung possible, and said there was a 50 per cent chance of a default within three months.

https://www.ft.com/content/1986587e-c4c ... 2b2cb39656
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:21 am

Natural Socialist progression:

Venezuela president Maduro says main opposition parties are banned from running against him in next year's election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-la ... mCJNnk9eTe
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:32 am

Behind every economic leftist is a Totalitarian.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:51 am

Liberals think conservatives are stupid. Conservatives think liberals are evil.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:55 am

Godjira wrote:Liberals think conservatives are stupid. Conservatives think liberals are evil.

Don't you think rigging elections is evil, googoo?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:11 am

I don’t think that most liberals support it, champ.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:18 am

Godjira wrote:I don’t think that most liberals support it, champ.

They supported Hillary! and the DNC rigging the primary election in the US in 2016.

Why is that?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:22 am

You’re thinking of Trump and Russia
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:25 am

So you can't explain why you Dumbocrats would want to rig an election, even in the context of this thread?

Fascinating.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:32 am

They didn’t.

You think Democrats are evil. We all think you’re stupid.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:37 am

Godjira wrote:They didn’t.

You think Democrats are evil. We all think you’re stupid.


You’re just copying something I posted. Doesn’t it embarrass you?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Lost Soul » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:37 am

Godjira wrote:They didn’t.

The former head of the DNC in the last election, let's call her Donna Brazile, says they did.

She even wrote a book about it.

Idiot.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:59 am

Argonheart_Po wrote:
Godjira wrote:They didn’t.

You think Democrats are evil. We all think you’re stupid.


You’re just copying something I posted. Doesn’t it embarrass you?


It’s something Charles Krauthammer said.

Aren’t you embarrassed for taking credit for someone else’s work?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:01 am

Lost Soul wrote:
Godjira wrote:They didn’t.

The former head of the DNC in the last election, let's call her Donna Brazile, says they did.

She even wrote a book about it.

Idiot.


So she stuffed ballot boxes and threw away results?

Schmuck face.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:08 am

Godjira wrote:
Argonheart_Po wrote:
Godjira wrote:They didn’t.

You think Democrats are evil. We all think you’re stupid.


You’re just copying something I posted. Doesn’t it embarrass you?


It’s something Charles Krauthammer said.

Aren’t you embarrassed for taking credit for someone else’s work?


No, I’m not.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:29 am

Venezuelans attacking and killing cattle on private farms, with rocks and sticks, in order to eat.

Looters raiding shops, stealing food. Leaving the cash behind.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by andybox » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:55 am

Viva Che
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by mishmish » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:24 pm

strife wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:06 pm
Really though, anyone who eats beef or chicken has no moral standing to object to the consumption of dog meat.
Absolutely

My own experience with late stage socialism is that it makes a right turn into capitalism once most people can afford it. Since most people cannot afford medical expenses in the event of dire circumstances, medical service has remained a popular bastion. And I don't see those Scandi nations clamoring for the Great American Way either. But please, don't let facts get in the way.

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:52 am

mishmish wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:24 pm
strife wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:06 pm
Really though, anyone who eats beef or chicken has no moral standing to object to the consumption of dog meat.
Absolutely

My own experience with late stage socialism is that it makes a right turn into capitalism once most people can afford it. Since most people cannot afford medical expenses in the event of dire circumstances, medical service has remained a popular bastion. And I don't see those Scandi nations clamoring for the Great American Way either. But please, don't let facts get in the way.
If only the Scandi nations were socialist. Then you post would make sense.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:58 am

There as socialist as Venezuela
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by DCComic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:10 am

Godjira wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:58 am
There as socialist as Venezuela
And they’re you have it. Po’s trolls are always based on cherry picking, he’s too dim to see it, that’s all.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:30 am

DCComic wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:10 am
Godjira wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:58 am
There as socialist as Venezuela
And they’re you have it. Po’s trolls are always based on cherry picking, he’s too dim to see it, that’s all.
What mewling nonsense. You clearly both know nothing of Scandi economies and governments and of Venezuela.

It’s pathetic.

Why in the age of Trump have you decided - deliberatly - to become ill informed simpletons? In sympathy with him?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:33 am

The left, 2005: "Viva Venezuela!"
The left, 2007: "Viva Venezuela!"
The left, 2009: "Viva Venezuela!"
The left, 2011: "Viva Venezuela!"
The left, 2013: "Viva Venezuela!"
The left, 2018: "Please please stop banging on about Venezuela? Such a silly straw man."
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by DCComic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:37 am

See? Thick as pigshit.
Copying out bits of blogs to make yourself feel alive is a dreadful half life.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Lost Soul » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:40 am

Godjira wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:58 am
There as socialist as Venezuela
I pity Nippon.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Smoker » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:56 am

mishmish wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:24 pm
My own experience with late stage socialism is that it makes a right turn into capitalism once most people can afford it.
Wrong! Late Stage Socialism finally gives up and turns into capitalism usually after horrible disaster after disaster like the Gulags, Year Zero, Great Leap Forward or whatever socialist plan for paradise for creating paradise on Earth finally kills enough peasants.
mishmish wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:24 pm
And I don't see those Scandi nations clamoring for the Great American Way either. But please, don't let facts get in the way.
Yea you don't let facts get in your way.

The Scandinavian countries are not Socialism as a political and economic system but instead like most successful countries they are modern democracies with a free enterprise capitalist economy used to pay for social programs, defense, infrastructure etc.

If the Scandinavian countries did try to implement Socialism as a political and economic system it would be just as big a disaster as Socialism was all those other times morons tired it.

Venezuela is just the latest example of Socialism's (in all its variations) decade upon decade endless losing streak.

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:08 pm

Nah. Norway, for example, has a GDP that is 60% public sector. Much greater than Venezuela.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Norwa ... nterprises

Sweden has a similar situation

http://www.government.se/government-pol ... terprises/
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:15 am

So, Norway, where 60% of the economy is in the public sector is not socialist, but Venezuela, where 30% if the economy is in the public sector, is socialist.

See why the word "socialist" really doesn't mean anything anymore?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:10 am

Godjira wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:15 am
So, Norway, where 60% of the economy is in the public sector is not socialist, but Venezuela, where 30% if the economy is in the public sector, is socialist.

See why the word "socialist" really doesn't mean anything anymore?
Socialism only exists as a utopia.

Here’s what happens when a socialist government is elected:

1.) Economic problems become apparent.
2.) They need scapegoats. It turns nasty and authoritarian.
3.) It collapses.
4.) Lefties assert that the experiment has been 'undermined' and/or 'corrupted'.
5.) Everyone on the left believes them.
6.) The collapse turns to catastrophe.
7.) The government falls, often in a bloodbath.
8.) When the true scale of the disaster is revealed the left say that it actually wasn’t proper socialism and only fools would hold it against socialism.

It’s a utopia because the left judge themselves and socialism by the outcomes they’d like to see rather than by reality. So because socialism always ends in disaster it cannot have been true socialism.

So it's a variant of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Except, a very special variant, in which the thing that supposedly makes it 'real' can never be achieved.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:18 am

Thanks for making it clear. You use the word “socialist” to demonize “everyone on the left.”
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:33 am

No.

Re-read it.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:40 am

I distilled it down to the essence.

Maybe it’s different in Australia, but I know scores of people who you’d consider “on the left” none of whom are socialists.

I mean, yes, socialists do exist, but you betray your real meaning in by saying “everyone on the left.”

Lazy righties try to yoke liberals to North Korea and Venezuela all the time.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by DCComic » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:41 am

Godjira wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:08 pm
Nah. Norway, for example, has a GDP that is 60% public sector. Much greater than Venezuela.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Norwa ... nterprises

Sweden has a similar situation

http://www.government.se/government-pol ... terprises/
Poo don’t need no stinkin’ facts.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Smoker » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:00 am

Argonheart_Po wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:10 am
Godjira wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:15 am
So, Norway, where 60% of the economy is in the public sector is not socialist, but Venezuela, where 30% if the economy is in the public sector, is socialist.

See why the word "socialist" really doesn't mean anything anymore?
Socialism only exists as a utopia.

Here’s what happens when a socialist government is elected:

1.) Economic problems become apparent.
2.) They need scapegoats. It turns nasty and authoritarian.
3.) It collapses.
4.) Lefties assert that the experiment has been 'undermined' and/or 'corrupted'.
5.) Everyone on the left believes them.
6.) The collapse turns to catastrophe.
7.) The government falls, often in a bloodbath.
8.) When the true scale of the disaster is revealed the left say that it actually wasn’t proper socialism and only fools would hold it against socialism.

It’s a utopia because the left judge themselves and socialism by the outcomes they’d like to see rather than by reality. So because socialism always ends in disaster it cannot have been true socialism.

So it's a variant of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Except, a very special variant, in which the thing that supposedly makes it 'real' can never be achieved.
Or you can just say Socialism as a political and economic system in all its variations always fails because human beings aren't bees or ants.

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by mad hatter » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:11 am

Godjira wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:08 pm
Nah. Norway, for example, has a GDP that is 60% public sector. Much greater than Venezuela.
It's called oil wealth not a magical socialist formula
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by DCComic » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:32 am

And Finland, Denmark, Sweden?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Smoker » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:30 am

mad hatter wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:11 am
Godjira wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:08 pm
Nah. Norway, for example, has a GDP that is 60% public sector. Much greater than Venezuela.
It's called oil wealth not a magical socialist formula
Norway got lucky with the oil wealth but the rest of the Scandinavian countries are just really well run modern democracies that have very free enterprise capitalist driven market economies.

Countries like Sweden are very entrepreneur friendly and Sweden ranks pretty high on the economic freedom scales at I think 19th out of around 180 countries.

As an aside I think the UAE is in the top ten of the Economic Freedom index but I haven't looked at it in a couple years or so.

Anyway back to Sweden I think Sweden's corporate tax rate is around 22% which is far lower than the USA etc.

I just took a quick look and Denmark's corporate tax rate is 24.5%, Norway = 27%, Finland =20% while the US marginal corporate tax rate is a huge 39.1% (which looks high to me, I thought it was around 35% but that was what popped up when I did a quick search).

There is a reason so many world class corporations are Swedish like H&M, Electrolux, Ikea, Ericsson etc.

The following is a brief explanation from a Swedish guy that works at Ericsson:
Sweden is a really hard core capitalist country, but with really high taxes. I.e. the government tries to nurture the market while at the same time ripe the benefits in the form of tax, to distribute to the benefit of the people. So, any decision the government take is almost always for the interest of business, with the aim to reap tax benefits. Many people think Sweden is a socialist country, but that is completely wrong. Sweden is a cut throat capitalist country but with a lot of tax. Given that the tax is spent on the people a lot of good things come out of that. For a country so small we have a lot of balls, and are willing to use them. But at the same time, when the rulers need to take big decisions, they do it really quick, and are expected to do so.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Argonheart_Po » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:36 am

Sweden is Free Marketland on Steroids.

The left refuse to find out anything about Sweden.
“We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.” —C.S. Lewis

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Godjira
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:56 am

So, Norway has oil wealth, but Venezuela doesn’t? That’s rightarded.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Smoker » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:01 am

Godjira wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:56 am
So, Norway has oil wealth, but Venezuela doesn’t? That’s rightarded.
Who said Venezuela doesn't have any oil wealth other than you?

The difference is Norway's oil wealth is managed by "Free Enterprise Capitalists" so they end up prosperous and with a reserve of a trillion dollars in Norway's Sovereign wealth fund verses Venezuela's oil wealth managed by the "Chavismo Socialism" which is the latest Socialist failure of paradise on Earth resulting in their people catching stay dogs for food yada yada yada.

It has been over a hundred years of various attempts of Socialism as a political and economic system and the result is failure after failure so just how many times does Socialism have to blow up before the Socialist true believers finally admit it just doesn't work since human beings aren't bees or ants?

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by northern_goddess » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:10 am

Who here is promoting socialism?
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:32 am

I don’t believe in socialism, but I do believe that Norway has a larger public sector than Venezuela because it does.
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Smoker » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:56 am

northern_goddess wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:10 am
Who here is promoting socialism?
Well no one with a brain in their head along with the Venezuelan people especially when you compare how the Norwegian free enterprise capitalists handled their oil wealth verses the latest flavor of “we fixed it and now it’s right” Chavismo Socialism once again dismally failed thus maintaining Socialism’s 100 year plus losing streak.

Oh and the dogs & the zoo animals in Venezuela also aren’t big fans of Socialism.

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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by Godjira » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:13 am

Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

I don’t know any countries that strictly follow these definitions, but I do know that Norway, with 35% of the economy in the public sector, is closer than Venezuela, with 25% of the economy in the public sector.

So, Smoker’s definition is arbitrary.

But really, the point of these arguments are not to define socialism or even be critical of it. The point is to paint “everyone on the left” as “socialist true believers.”
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Re: Late Stage Socialism

Post by northern_goddess » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:12 pm

Godjira wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:13 am
The point is to paint “everyone on the left” as “socialist true believers.”
Considering no one on the left has supported socialism, if someone were to do that by perhaps posting thread after thread day after day suggesting such a thing, they would only be confirming how truly dim they are.
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

http://www.fat-pie.com/salad.htm

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