Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Today we’ve been promised a “Brexit Dividend” providing extra money for the NHS. But there will be tax rises to pay for it.

The whole thing is just an exercise in misinformation and bullshit which nobody on either side of parliament is willing to change because it will reveal how little talent they have and how weak our politics has become that it fell for this scam.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flora » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:52 pm

Someone I follow on Twitter, involved with whistleblowing on this stuff, has started talking about escape options, supporting each other with practical advise on how to stockpile food/emigrate if you can etc. Meanwhile Ian Dunt from politics.co.uk is still coming over as quite positive about it being OK - soft Brexit being the only option remaining.

I'm more inclined to start stockpiling.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:15 pm

How is soft brexit possible from here (genuine question)?
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by DCComic » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:31 pm

Flora wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:52 pm
Someone I follow on Twitter, involved with whistleblowing on this stuff, has started talking about escape options, supporting each other with practical advise on how to stockpile food/emigrate if you can etc. Meanwhile Ian Dunt from politics.co.uk is still coming over as quite positive about it being OK - soft Brexit being the only option remaining.

I'm more inclined to start stockpiling.

End times?
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by matt_melb » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:29 pm

Yeah. One might think it will just be a matter of the UK dealing with the kinds of borders that most other countries in the world deal with; and paying the amounts that people in most other countries pay when they trade with Europe.

But no, apparently it’s going to be the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Like Y2K was.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by desertstorm » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:46 pm

matt_melb wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:29 pm
Yeah. One might think it will just be a matter of the UK dealing with the kinds of borders that most other countries in the world deal with; and paying the amounts that people in most other countries pay when they trade with Europe.

But no, apparently it’s going to be the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Like Y2K was.
If you know how to take UK out of the customs union and single market, while still keeping UK and EU trading (almost as) freely as before, but also let UK 'taking back control' and being free to make its own regulations and negotiating with other countries for trade deals, but also convince EU to allow UK having some power to decide how EU make up its own regulations without UK being an EU member, doing all that AND finding an applicable, legal and foolproof way to keep the border of Ireland and N.Ireland 'soft', and negotiating on how to do all that before November this year (and if you can't, we will be kind and extend two more years for you), you can contact both Theresa May and say, Junker in EU and I bet they will pay you very well.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flora » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:54 pm

Something about the non existent Brexit dividend being a bone to the hard Brexiters. They tweet about that while she has no option but to rub away her red lines to avoid riots. I'm going to be out of the country at the end of March 2019, we're already buying Euros.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by matt_melb » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:03 pm

Flora wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:54 pm
I'm going to be out of the country at the end of March 2019
Noted. I'm sure I won't be the only one checking back next March to see whether you have in fact carried out your threat to punish the UK by removing yourself.
Flora wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:54 pm
we're already buying Euros.
Better hurry before they are all gone.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by desertstorm » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:09 pm

Sure, we will also wait and see how UK government is going to have its cake and eat it, like many Brexiters have predicted again and again.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flora » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:23 pm

Matt - my family is taking a sabbatical. I'll be out of the country, in the EU, so we're buying Euros now to fund that. No need to be a dick about it.

Yes desert, going to be interesting how that plan 'works' out. Ha, ridiculous and embarrassing.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:07 am

As has been pointed out a lot lately, Y2K wasn't much of a problem because a lot of people did a lot of work to prevent it becoming a problem.

That does not seem to be the case with Brexit.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by brodie_bruce » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:58 am

And in today's Brexit good news......

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... are_btn_tw

Still, with Boris Johnson, a man of principles, around it'll be fine. Oh.

"EU diplomats have claimed that during a Foreign Office reception to celebrate the Queen’s birthday last week, the Foreign Secretary was asked about the fears of some business leaders over Brexit and replied: “f*** business.”"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -concerns/
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:27 am

All the 'manipulative' companies want is frictionless borders and no tariffs. There are several fairly easy routes to that, and I'd say that there's a good chance the UK will take one of them.

Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:28 am

So, after two years of dithering and dawdling, there's finally a plan. And that plan is to "fuck business". What a plan!
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am

Flobster! wrote:Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by guruwil » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:45 am

Flobster! wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:27 am
All the 'manipulative' companies want is frictionless borders and no tariffs. There are several fairly easy routes to that, and I'd say that there's a good chance the UK will take one of them.

Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
It’s more than that, there’s a whole bunch of regulatory alignment etc that’s important as well. I think it’s a big call to say the routes to it are easy. I hear that whole “fuck business” sentiment all the time usually not in those words but the sentiment is the same. Almost always said by people who have no understanding of how business works. And people who can’t make the mental link from business to customers to cost and access to taxpayer and to voter. It’s a very very dumb view of the world.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by brodie_bruce » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:48 am

Iolar wrote:I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
Nope, I miss the days where they were just incompetent rather than completely and utterly fucking useless.....


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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by brodie_bruce » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:50 am

Iolar wrote:I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
Nope, I miss the days where they were just incompetent rather than completely and utterly fucking useless.....


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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:44 pm

Flobster! wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:27 am
All the 'manipulative' companies want is frictionless borders and no tariffs. There are several fairly easy routes to that, and I'd say that there's a good chance the UK will take one of them.

Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
Name one that complies with Mays red lines. Just one.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:45 pm

guruwil wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:45 am
Flobster! wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:27 am
All the 'manipulative' companies want is frictionless borders and no tariffs. There are several fairly easy routes to that, and I'd say that there's a good chance the UK will take one of them.

Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
It’s more than that, there’s a whole bunch of regulatory alignment etc that’s important as well. I think it’s a big call to say the routes to it are easy. I hear that whole “fuck business” sentiment all the time usually not in those words but the sentiment is the same. Almost always said by people who have no understanding of how business works. And people who can’t make the mental link from business to customers to cost and access to taxpayer and to voter. It’s a very very dumb view of the world.
The regulatory alignment in manufactured products is by far the easiest bit.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:46 pm

Iolar wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am
Flobster! wrote:Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
Agreed. Theresa May is by far the very worst PM of the post WW2 era. There is no competition.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flora » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:30 pm

I don't think hard Brexit is off the table.

Three ministers have come out in the last 3 days and basically said 'fuck business'. I figured that once business stopped saying 'could leave', and said 'would leave', which has happened this week, the Torys would sort their shit out... but 3 ministers seem to think not. Not that any of them seem to be on the same page at any given time though.

Some of the responses of Joe Bloggs to the Airbus/BMW/Eurotunnel stuff is properly funny though. If you didn't think lots of the more vocal leavers were a bit dim before, it's all there on a plate.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:50 pm

Iolar wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am
Flobster! wrote:Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
I agree. You’d think hard brexit would be off the table but we’re at the stage now where we cut our own throats and then blame the bloody foreigner for not cleaning it up fast enough
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:58 pm

It’s interesting, after the Leave campaign financed by hedge funds and the amount of money hedge funds shorting £££s at the referendum, that the rising star in the Conservatives is some political mediocrity with a glorious career in... hedge funds.

A lot of money to be made betting on uncertainty and uncertainty seems very easy to manipulate right now.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:58 pm

Wellpisser wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:46 pm
Iolar wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am
Flobster! wrote:Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
Agreed. Theresa May is by far the very worst PM of the post WW2 era. There is no competition.
This is all your fault twatface.

You were wrong about Iraq and you were wrong about brexit. In both cases you think the idea was right but poorly implemented. The reality is you unleashed forces you didn’t understand and from the comfort of your armchair you blamed those who saw your idiocy from the beginning.

You’ve advocated half a dozen wars into the bargain.

You are a smug fool. Has anyone in the history of the internet been more wrong than you?

May you never have a moments peace in your lifetime. I curse you for all eternity.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:57 am

shunter wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:58 pm
Wellpisser wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:46 pm
Iolar wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am


I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
Agreed. Theresa May is by far the very worst PM of the post WW2 era. There is no competition.
This is all your fault twatface.

You were wrong about Iraq and you were wrong about brexit. In both cases you think the idea was right but poorly implemented. The reality is you unleashed forces you didn’t understand and from the comfort of your armchair you blamed those who saw your idiocy from the beginning.

You’ve advocated half a dozen wars into the bargain.

You are a smug fool. Has anyone in the history of the internet been more wrong than you?

May you never have a moments peace in your lifetime. I curse you for all eternity.
Oh do fuck off you Poundshop Haw Haw constantly repeating the words from your masters in Brussels like a demented EU Hare Krishna.

Theresa May is the single worst PM if the post war era but thankfully the withdrawal act has received Royal Assent and we are leaving. You can snivel and whine all you like, paint yourself blue until you look like a star covered smurf but we are leaving.

Thankfully. Not in the manner that I hoped we would and only just because of the sheer blithering incompetence of May and the backsliding treachery of Oliver Robbins and the rest of the Remainiac rearguard but we are leaving.

You gave it your best shot, you tried to destroy the country and turn us into nothing more than, well, Ireland but you failed. Hopefully you’ll fuck off back to Germany now.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:47 am

Wellpisser wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:57 am
shunter wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:58 pm
Wellpisser wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:46 pm


Agreed. Theresa May is by far the very worst PM of the post WW2 era. There is no competition.
This is all your fault twatface.

You were wrong about Iraq and you were wrong about brexit. In both cases you think the idea was right but poorly implemented. The reality is you unleashed forces you didn’t understand and from the comfort of your armchair you blamed those who saw your idiocy from the beginning.

You’ve advocated half a dozen wars into the bargain.

You are a smug fool. Has anyone in the history of the internet been more wrong than you?

May you never have a moments peace in your lifetime. I curse you for all eternity.
Oh do fuck off you Poundshop Haw Haw constantly repeating the words from your masters in Brussels like a demented EU Hare Krishna.

Theresa May is the single worst PM if the post war era but thankfully the withdrawal act has received Royal Assent and we are leaving. You can snivel and whine all you like, paint yourself blue until you look like a star covered smurf but we are leaving.

Thankfully. Not in the manner that I hoped we would and only just because of the sheer blithering incompetence of May and the backsliding treachery of Oliver Robbins and the rest of the Remainiac rearguard but we are leaving.

You gave it your best shot, you tried to destroy the country and turn us into nothing more than, well, Ireland but you failed. Hopefully you’ll fuck off back to Germany now.
WWII insults? You are a Sun reader. When you got into bed with Farage, Rees-Mogg, Galloway, Johnson did you really think things would go well?

How horribly naive you are, as you must now realise only too well.
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2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:51 am

Wellpisser wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:44 pm
Flobster! wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:27 am
All the 'manipulative' companies want is frictionless borders and no tariffs. There are several fairly easy routes to that, and I'd say that there's a good chance the UK will take one of them.

Hard Brexit is off the table now, I'd say.
Name one that complies with Mays red lines. Just one.
Her red lines will have to go. And they will.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by rider5 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:02 pm

shunter wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:58 pm
Wellpisser wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:46 pm
Iolar wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am


I don't think the stupidity of this UK government should be underestimated.
Agreed. Theresa May is by far the very worst PM of the post WW2 era. There is no competition.
This is all your fault twatface.

You were wrong about Iraq and you were wrong about brexit. In both cases you think the idea was right but poorly implemented. The reality is you unleashed forces you didn’t understand and from the comfort of your armchair you blamed those who saw your idiocy from the beginning.

You’ve advocated half a dozen wars into the bargain.

You are a smug fool. Has anyone in the history of the internet been more wrong than you?

May you never have a moments peace in your lifetime. I curse you for all eternity.
Holy shit that made me laugh.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:55 pm

Danny Dyer calls David Cameron a twat on live TV

He called Brexit and had it on his toes!

lols

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by brodie_bruce » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:16 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 38856.html

The pound fell in the wake of Boris Johnson’s resignation from the Cabinet on Monday.

At 1530 sterling was trading at $1.3243, down 0.78 per cent from the $1.3347 level at 1440 when rumours of the Foreign Secretary’s departure began circulating.

Against the euro the pound was at €1.1271, down 0.56 per cent over the same period.

The move suggests a view in financial markets that the departure of Mr Johnson makes a “no deal” Brexit more likely.

“Johnson’s resignation is a significant event from a market standpoint and something of a shock, marking a pretty remarkable U-turn after seemingly backing the proposals made at Chequers,” said David Cheetham, of the online currency trading company XTB.

“It could now be seen to pave the way for more to follow and means that [David] Davis’s decision to stand down isn’t an isolated event and the chances of a challenge to May’s leadership have now increased markedly”.

However, some analysts said the resignation could ultimately have a limited impact on the UK currency.

“Unless we see a tangible leadership challenge in the next 24 hours [it’s] hard to see the pound massively falling further,” said Viraj Patel of ING.

Sterling slumped in February 2016 when Mr Johnson, after a long period of deliberation, announced that he would campaign for Brexit in the referendum.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by simon_in_exile » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:20 pm

I think the currency markets have already priced in a Tory clusterfuck - it’s been a matter of when, not if, it happened.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:24 pm

It's great that the soccer team are doing so well amidst the political turmoil at home.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by DCComic » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:26 am

"Never at any stage do the Brexiters ever accept the practical duty of producing a detailed post-Brexit plan. Instead, David Davis smirks through meeting after meeting, Boris Johnson gabbily chases cheap headlines, Michael Gove spins a wordy web of courteous waffle and Liam Fox insists that black is white and white black. Mr Davis said this week that Mrs May’s ideas would not work. So, what might work instead? There was, predictably, no answer from Mr Davis. There never is. The Brexiters created the mess and the burden with which Mrs May has to wrestle. But it is never, ever, their fault. Nothing ever is. It is only, ever, Mrs May’s fault – or someone else’s fault: the civil service, the judges, business leaders, the Irish, the liberal elites or Brussels.
Before the Brexit vote and since, the Brexiters have never put forward a detailed plan of their own. They did not do so this week. They spent 12 hours at Chequers not doing it. They won’t do it next week either. They don’t do plans. They only do fantasy. They spun a fantasy of takeover by Brussels; now they spin a fantasy of liberation from it. They have held our country, its politics, its press and its shared life hostage to their lazy second-rate dreariness for too long. It is time to take the fight to them."
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:53 am

DCComic wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:26 am
"Never at any stage do the Brexiters ever accept the practical duty of producing a detailed post-Brexit plan. Instead, David Davis smirks through meeting after meeting, Boris Johnson gabbily chases cheap headlines, Michael Gove spins a wordy web of courteous waffle and Liam Fox insists that black is white and white black. Mr Davis said this week that Mrs May’s ideas would not work. So, what might work instead? There was, predictably, no answer from Mr Davis. There never is. The Brexiters created the mess and the burden with which Mrs May has to wrestle. But it is never, ever, their fault. Nothing ever is. It is only, ever, Mrs May’s fault – or someone else’s fault: the civil service, the judges, business leaders, the Irish, the liberal elites or Brussels.
Before the Brexit vote and since, the Brexiters have never put forward a detailed plan of their own. They did not do so this week. They spent 12 hours at Chequers not doing it. They won’t do it next week either. They don’t do plans. They only do fantasy. They spun a fantasy of takeover by Brussels; now they spin a fantasy of liberation from it. They have held our country, its politics, its press and its shared life hostage to their lazy second-rate dreariness for too long. It is time to take the fight to them."
GIY
Nonsense of course-there was the IEA Brexit prize of €100,000 referenced here: https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... in-exit-eu, about 10 plans were considered in depth, I didn't agree with the final one and my preferred Brexit plan has been in my sigline since the date of the referendum was announced.

At no time has any Brexiter ever been in a position to actually make a decision, in case you haven't noticed we have had a Remainer PM since Cameron resigned and May with her civil service sidekick has been negotiating directly with the Commission since mid last year.

There have been a number of plans and scenarios put forward but the Remainers who run the country have refused to entertain them and, worse and as your article shows, Remainers actually deny their existence.

Because that is what Remainers do-they lie.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:55 am

brodie_bruce wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:16 pm
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 38856.html

The pound fell in the wake of Boris Johnson’s resignation from the Cabinet on Monday.

At 1530 sterling was trading at $1.3243, down 0.78 per cent from the $1.3347 level at 1440 when rumours of the Foreign Secretary’s departure began circulating.

Against the euro the pound was at €1.1271, down 0.56 per cent over the same period.

The move suggests a view in financial markets that the departure of Mr Johnson makes a “no deal” Brexit more likely.

“Johnson’s resignation is a significant event from a market standpoint and something of a shock, marking a pretty remarkable U-turn after seemingly backing the proposals made at Chequers,” said David Cheetham, of the online currency trading company XTB.

“It could now be seen to pave the way for more to follow and means that [David] Davis’s decision to stand down isn’t an isolated event and the chances of a challenge to May’s leadership have now increased markedly”.

However, some analysts said the resignation could ultimately have a limited impact on the UK currency.

“Unless we see a tangible leadership challenge in the next 24 hours [it’s] hard to see the pound massively falling further,” said Viraj Patel of ING.

Sterling slumped in February 2016 when Mr Johnson, after a long period of deliberation, announced that he would campaign for Brexit in the referendum.
A movement of less than 1c in cable is an awful political epitaph. Poor BoJo.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:58 am

Who says it's slumped by a Pfenning because of that can't?

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:59 am

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:58 am
Who says it's slumped by a Pfenning because of that can't?
the article inferred this

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by dBrother » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:10 am

Yeah, what wellpisser said, the r3moaners are sabotaging brexit from within trying to deliberately make it fail to bring on a second referendum.
This is democracy hijacked.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by desertstorm » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:46 am

I don't know why wellpisser is still putting all the blame on Remainers right now. Many Remainers want the next best thing, a Brexit that allows UK-EU to keep the free trade, that is actually what wellpisser wants too.

If anyone is trying their very best to sabotage that option in broad daylight, that is a fuckload of hard Brexiters like Johnson and Rees-Mogg, who want to 'take back control' and cut ties with EU. Yet any sensible person knows what that means: no free trade with EU, no matter how often those delusional hard Brexiters keep saying the German car industry and the Italian prosecco industry will force Angela Merkel to give UK a free trade deal.

In case there are still hard Brexiters who are in doubt. UK can't 'take back control' of its border and regulations in general, and keep free trade with EU at the same time. Yet the hard Brexiters either pretend they can, or trying hard only to shout the 'take back control part' and not the 'no free trade part'.

And if any of you don't understand the consequences of 'no free trade with EU' for UK, or saying things like 'but UK is free to strike trade deals with the likes such as US and China', then god bless you.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:10 am

I think part of the problem is that May's plan folded 2 things together - leaving and a trade deal.

They want to leave, have a few months of chaos THEN talk about a trade deal. That trade deal (like any trade deal with any country) would have rules about standards and arbitration, too.

They aren't very bright.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by desertstorm » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:37 am

The hard Brexiters are right to wonder one thing about the soft Brexit option. Why does UK bother to leave EU in the first place if it still has to obey most of the EU regulations and accept 4 freedoms of movement to allow free trade, but giving up the right to contribute to EU policy/regulation making processes.

That is also the same question remainers have been asking all along.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:46 am

Fintan O'Toole wrote:The best headline about British prime minister Theresa May’s short-lived triumph over the hard Brexiteers last Friday was undoubtedly the one on Pádraig Collins’s report in the Guardian: “Possum rescued after getting head stuck in Nutella jar”.

Admittedly, Collins was actually reporting, not from Chequers, but from Brisbane, Australia. Yet the accompanying photograph was the perfect image of what May is trying to do. It showed the furry creature all curled up and immobilised with its head completely encased in a glass jar streaked with visible residues of sticky brown stuff. As a spokesman for the Australian RSPCA explained, the dumb animal “managed to get his head in the jar, but obviously couldn’t get it out”. The rescuer put “towels around the possum so she could get him out of the jar without getting scratched by his claws”.

The story saves me the trouble of thinking up a metaphor. The Brexiteers have their heads stuck in a jar of sticky brown stuff that seemed so sweet and enticing. May’s compromise deal and the White Paper she is still expected to publish this week are the towels wrapped round the Brexiteers’ claws so that their heads can be pulled out of the jar without her premiership getting scratched to death.

She has shown them the best-case scenario, the most desirable possible outcome. And though in colour it may look like Nutella, it is actually a different kind of sticky brown stuff. “Human kind,” said TS Eliot, “cannot bear very much reality,” and the same is surely true of Davis, Johnson and their fellow diehards. May has finally managed to disenchant the Brexit project, to strip away its heroic veneer. And instead of a date with destiny, it looks awfully like a loveless marriage, entered into with a heavy heart because the only alternative is unbearable loneliness.

The Brexit the British are now officially seeking is indeed miserable. Instead of the Star Trek vision of boldly going where no imperial-nostalgic society had gone before, it would not have enough thrust to get the UK out of the gravitational pull of the European Union. And instead of freeing British businesses from Brussels red tape, it proposes to wrap them up like mummies in layers of staggeringly complex bureaucracy, with two completely different tariff regimes operating side by side. And this, remember, is what the UK is asking for, not what it will get.

In real negotiations, as Davis knows from experience, things can only get worse: the role of the hated European Court of Justice will loom much larger and the opt-outs for future UK parliaments will disappear. If a deal is to be done at all, the last vestiges of fantasy Brexit will have to be stripped away and what will be left is a state that has negotiated its way from full partnership to the status of a rule-taking satellite of the EU.

When you take away all the heroic elements of Brexit, all the epic thrills of throwing off the oppressor and beginning a new history, what you are left with is just this – a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself. Brexit has reached the point where the best possible outcome is the worst of both worlds, a state that is neither in nor out, neither on its own nor part of something larger.

This is what all the patriotic bombast has brought Britain to: a humble request that the EU play nice and grant it a subordinate status. Imagine that at some point in the past, the EU had actually offered this to the British. How dare they!

Can there be the slightest doubt that the British would have been up in arms, demanding nothing less than full EU membership? Has any country ever gone into international treaty negotiations hoping to emerge with a status greatly inferior to the one it already enjoys? What do we want? National humiliation. When do we want it? Now.

Davis and Johnson know this is the reality they helped to create. They hadn’t the stomach either to face it or to publish a credible alternative. That is because the only alternatives to a mortifying Brexit are stark. One is to be honest and admit that the whole project has already failed and must be stopped before it is too late. The other is to stick your head back in the Nutella jar. If May goes, there may be no one left to pull the poor possums out.
I laughed.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:03 am

I haven't heard anything by Corbyn to suggest he opposes the result of the original referendum.

He's waiting for them to implode, get elected, and deliver a soft Brexit.

There will not be a second referendum.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:07 am

And when he gets elected I will find where Shunter lives.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:10 am

You don't think that now that the British electorate (and its political representatives) somewhat understands the consequences of secession, that most of them wouldn't jump at the opportunity to remain in the EU? Surely, it's only headbangers who still believe that Brexit is a good idea? I believe that you are far more informed as a people now than in 2016.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:13 am

I refer you to the comment I made about 'lukewarm' Corbyn.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:15 am

It's a pity that there isn't a pro-EU political party in the UK! Oh wait ...
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:17 am

You do know Corbyn's voting history on Europe?

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:25 am

He's been voting against it since the 70s

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