Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

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Wellpisser
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Sat May 26, 2018 9:25 pm

Given how bad things are in NW8 right now I think I could probably get a bat and so I hereby claim this Nifty
Last edited by Wellpisser on Sat May 26, 2018 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Sat May 26, 2018 9:25 pm

Wellpisser wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:17 pm
Chi_Rup wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:26 pm
So it was all about immigration after all. Top answer.
How do you mean "it was all about immigration" snd since when is a plurality "all". Is this more of that legendary Scottish education that we hear do much about?
It’s the main answer Leavers gave for why they wanted to leave, in your links.

I’m surprised you linked it, given how viciously you disagree with that point of view way back up the thread.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Sat May 26, 2018 9:33 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:25 pm
Wellpisser wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:17 pm
Chi_Rup wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:26 pm
So it was all about immigration after all. Top answer.
How do you mean "it was all about immigration" and since when is a plurality "all". Is this more of that legendary Scottish education that we hear do much about?
It’s the main answer Leavers gave for why they wanted to leave, in your links.
I get that but what I don't get is how anybody could possibly think that a pluraility is "all". I too wish to control immigration and the Yurpeen Commission wants to control immigration. Only a swivel eyed nutjob would want wholly open borders.
I’m surprised you linked it, given how viciously you disagree with that point of view way back up the thread.
I don't disagree-I think that you have probably not read the question properly or you did not read the question in the Ashcroft poll properly. More likely you are just proving the point of the research-that you genuinely have no idea why people voted Leave or why they would want to be self governing. Which is strange considering your support for Scottish independence.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Sat May 26, 2018 9:35 pm

Oh and Chi I linked because unlike Remainiacs I don't do selective use of facts

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Sat May 26, 2018 9:40 pm

Was open borders on the ballot paper? No.

From your links, I get that the majority of Leave voters did so because immigration. Remain voters think that majority is higher and they’re probably right, because a self-aware Leaver will talk about “sovereignty” instead. Even though they want to abolish the House of Lords and High Court now. But you always said it was the first step toward constitutional reform.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Sat May 26, 2018 9:53 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:40 pm
Was open borders on the ballot paper? No.

From your links, I get that the majority of Leave voters did so because immigration. Remain voters think that majority is higher and they’re probably right, because a self-aware Leaver will talk about “sovereignty” instead. Even though they want to abolish the House of Lords and High Court now. But you always said it was the first step toward constitutional reform.
A plurailty is not a majority.

Control of immigration is not ending immigration. It is controlling it. Thus doctors and programmers can come in but thanks we have enough hod carriers and road sweepers of our own. It seems to work for the Canadians.

I do want constitutional reform - I think that both Houses should be elected the lower representing the prople on FPTP and the Upper representing the counties and metropolitan areas on a regional PR basis unrelated to size of population. I think that the Ameriguns have got that bit right.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Wellpisser » Sun May 27, 2018 11:16 pm

In case anybody has missed the sheer tabloid jeanius of this article from the Currant Bun about the Gallileo row:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ryansabey/st ... 62/photo/1

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:47 am

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... KKCN1IW35H
UK plans to give Northern Ireland joint UK, EU status
Perhaps this could be a way out of the Brexit debacle. A joint UK and EU status for the entire UK.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitters

Post by Chi_Rup » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:18 am

Absolutely no chance of that happening, even in Northern Ireland. Especially in Northern Ireland.

I mean, come on. Problem agreeing a land border between the EU and the UK? How about two?

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:33 am

I know, it's completely unrealistic. Davis should get a move on and come up with better ideas or, better still, call the whole thing off.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:34 am

The plans are likely to be opposed by the Northern Irish party, the Democratic Unionist Party, that supports Prime Minister Theresa May’s minority government and has said they will oppose any Brexit deal that sees the province operate under different regulations to the rest of the United Kingdom.
Northern Ireland already operates under different regulations from the United Kingdom and nobody bats an eyelid.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:41 pm

Davis changed his mind by teatime.

The Department For Exiting The EU is led by a man so stupid he relies on printing his ideas in The Sun to find out if they’re any good or not.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:46 pm

I was convinced that moving the border 16km would solve the border problem.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:05 pm

If you want to follow a lunatic on twitter who makes wellpisser seem sane then I can recommend the arse known as Lord Digby Jones
1988: "We have a climate in Britain in which business wants to succeed and can succeed." Margaret Thatcher, speech to launch the European Single Market

2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 pm

And here’s Farage:

“After Brexit whether for good or ill, we will be self-governing. That’s the point. I never said it would be a beneficial thing to leave and everyone would be better off, just that we would be self-governing."
1988: "We have a climate in Britain in which business wants to succeed and can succeed." Margaret Thatcher, speech to launch the European Single Market

2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:35 pm

shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 pm
And here’s Farage:

“After Brexit whether for good or ill, we will be self-governing. That’s the point. I never said it would be a beneficial thing to leave and everyone would be better off, just that we would be self-governing."
He's forgetting that the UK will just be told what to do and have no input into the decision making process. Not really self-governing as I understand the term.

It's becoming more and more likely that Brexit will never happen.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:04 pm

Iolar wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:35 pm
shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 pm
And here’s Farage:

“After Brexit whether for good or ill, we will be self-governing. That’s the point. I never said it would be a beneficial thing to leave and everyone would be better off, just that we would be self-governing."
He's forgetting that the UK will just be told what to do and have no input into the decision making process. Not really self-governing as I understand the term.
Self-governing is bullshit in an interdependent world where size matters.
It's becoming more and more likely that Brexit will never happen.
I hope so too but it seems more like wishful thinking.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:55 am

shunter wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:05 pm
If you want to follow a lunatic on twitter who makes wellpisser seem sane then I can recommend the arse known as Lord Digby Jones
Here’s some nonsensical rantings:

“Brexit means the British people escaping the tyranny of unelected, unaccountable Brussels. Memo to destructive Remoaners: beware the Tyranny of Parliament. The British People did not vote for a mirror image situation of obeying rules from Brussels & worse.....paying billions &
& not even having any influence! Soubry, Morgan, Clegg, Umunna.....get behind an independent UK & stop this betrayal of the People.“
1988: "We have a climate in Britain in which business wants to succeed and can succeed." Margaret Thatcher, speech to launch the European Single Market

2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:06 am

Surely he must be nearly 100 years old by now? I remember him waddling around like a chubby Conservative walrus on TV in the 80s.

It’s Johnson, Gove, Wellpisser, Lord Snooty off The Beano, Digby Jones and that twat from Wetherspoons with Pat Sharpe hair at this point. All trapped in a lift, shouting.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:38 pm

Yes, but it’s your fault.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:15 pm

Has anyone listened to that tape of the interview of a young Rees-Mogg?

Deeply disturbing.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by twodogs » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:52 pm

Are there any festivities planned for the two year anniversary?
More irrational spitefulness coming from twodogs...

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:19 pm

Tories want to ring the bells of Big Ben (which has been denied I think) and have commemorative pound coins issued.

I’ve got my eu flag to wave.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by VinnyD » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:38 pm

Plans for next March:
Britain would be hit with shortages of medicine, fuel and food within a fortnight if the UK tries to leave the European Union without a deal, according to a Doomsday Brexit scenario drawn up by senior civil servants for David Davis.

Whitehall has begun contingency planning for the port of Dover to collapse “on day one” if Britain crashes out of the EU, leading to critical shortages of supplies.

Last month officials in Davis’s Brexit department and the departments of health and transport drew up scenarios for a no-deal Brexit — a mild one, a severe one and one dubbed “Armageddon”.

A source said: “In the second scenario, not even the worst, the port of Dover will collapse on day one. The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks.”

Officials would have to charter aircraft, or use the RAF to ferry supplies to the furthest corners of the UK. “You would have to medevac medicine into Britain, and at the end of week two we would be running out of petrol as well,” the source said.

Concern about chaos at Dover was behind a decision by Highways England to announce plans last month to build “one or more lorry holding areas” in Kent “to reduce the congestion caused by cross-Channel disruption”.

It is understood that the papers were prepared for the so-called Inter-Ministerial Group on Preparedness, which meets weekly when parliament is sitting. One official said the scenarios are so explosive they have only been shared with a handful of ministers and are “locked in a safe”.

A spokesman for the Brexit department confirmed the discussions had taken place, but said it was “completely false” that the doomsday scenario would unfold: “A significant amount of work and decision-making has gone into our no-deal plans, especially where it relates to ports, and we know that none of this would come to pass.”

But the details were leaked by officials who believe Brexiteers are still too bullish about the prospect of walking away and trading on World Trade Organisation terms.

Brexiteers accused the civil service of peddling a new version of “Project Fear”. Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader, said: “They are frozen in the headlights. They should be planning for what happens if there is no deal, not scaring the pants off each other. We need people with imagination and courage, not frightened rabbits.”

The government has said it would in effect throw open Britain’s borders in the event of a no-deal Brexit. But officials fear the EU, particularly the French, would not do the same.

A senior official said: “We are entirely dependent on Europe reciprocating our posture that we will do nothing to impede the flow of goods into the UK. If, for whatever reason, Europe decides to slow that supply down, then we’re screwed.”
The Times.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by twodogs » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:51 am

I wouldn't worry too much the US will have surplus pork, maple syrup, orange juice, peanut butter, cheese and whiskey which is all anyone really needs.
More irrational spitefulness coming from twodogs...

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:14 pm

“European governments are advising businesses not to use British parts in goods for export ahead of Brexit, Sky News has established”

https://news.sky.com/story/european-bus ... t-11395908

Best case scenario: brexit is not an unmitigated disaster

Most likely scenario: like project fear only worse!
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by matt_melb » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:55 pm

A source said: “In the second scenario, not even the worst, the port of Dover will collapse on day one. The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks.”

Officials would have to charter aircraft, or use the RAF to ferry supplies to the furthest corners of the UK. “You would have to medevac medicine into Britain, and at the end of week two we would be running out of petrol as well,” the source said.
Start stockpiling now! Remember what it was like in the dark days of Y2K! Oh, wait...

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:58 pm

We can safely assume this is a bit more serious than the millennium bug.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by twodogs » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:58 pm

Image
More irrational spitefulness coming from twodogs...

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:33 am

Too late to avoid supply chain disruption after Brexit, says Freight Transport Association:
Britain’s logistics industry lost patience with the government on Tuesday, with lorry drivers saying their confidence in a well-managed Brexit is collapsing and the Channel tunnel warning it was “too late” to avoid serious disruption when the UK leaves the EU next March.

With Westminster convulsed by arguments over the future of the UK’s borders the logistics industry hit out at ministers and officials for having no plan for how their operations are supposed to function in the future.

The Freight Transport Association said “the industry’s frustration with the lack of progress is building daily” as logistics companies were unable to price for the period after March 2019 or answer basic questions from customers.

James Hookham, deputy chief executive, complained that some parts of government simply dismissed their concerns as trivial. “This is a reckless attitude to take and is playing chicken with parts of the British economy and the livelihoods of the seven million Britons in the industry.”

John Keefe, public affairs director of Getlink, the company which runs the Channel tunnel, warned against any solution that did not involve smart border technology away from the congested area of Dover, which he said was “essential to ensuring that frictionless trade can be maintained”.

“Delivering this level of sophistication will be a complex and lengthy process and it is already too late to envisage it being in place in March 2019,” he told MPs in evidence to parliament.

The Port of Dover has previously warned that, such is the level of traffic through the port that a delay of only two minutes for each truck would create a 17-mile tailback of lorries

The FTA has been explaining its problems to government in private but it lost patience at the weekend when officials failed to respond as promised to the many issues that concerned its members.

“Of the eight demands in FTA’s list of essentials to ‘Keep Britain Trading’ . . . not a single one has been progressed,” Mr Hookham said.

He said there was no guarantee that UK haulage companies would be able to continue employing the 43,000 truck drivers in Britain that are nationals of another EU member state.

There had been no progress in the UK seeking an agreement with the EU to allow UK truckers’ driving licences to be recognised in the EU. “Under European law, unless an agreement is reached, there will only be 103 international haulage permits to cover the 300,000 journeys made by British trucks to Europe each year,” he said.

Most stem from the government’s decision to leave both the EU’s customs union and the single market, he said. Complaining that the UK’s negotiating tactic was to delay and expect the EU27 to find a solution, he warned, “the reliance on the other side blinking first is hanging the logistics industry out to dry”.

Mr Hookham added: “With less than 10 months to go until the country is set to leave the EU, we have nothing agreed and there is every prospect of another flunked summit at the end of this month.”
Financial Times, 5th June 2018

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:48 am

Quite exciting today. David Davis is threatening to resign if the government won’t put a firm date on a proposal his own department has been unable to make work.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:09 am

All this chaos might be be tolerable if the UK government actually had some point it was trying to negotiate its way to, but it doesn't.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:49 am

Chi_Rup wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:48 am
Quite exciting today. David Davis is threatening to resign if the government won’t put a firm date on a proposal his own department has been unable to make work.
Who would they replace the great man with?
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:20 am

shunter wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:49 am
Who would they replace the great man with?
Jeremy Hunt! Such a pool of talent to choose from.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:27 am

Let's call the whole thing off.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:02 pm

It's looking that way.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm

I can’t keep up. Is the latest to leave while ensuring 100% alignment of all rules and laws - for a period to be determined but not less than 2 years? Is that where we are up to? A sort of cross between leave and remain, satisfying no one but reflecting the fact that leave is such an absurd position that it can’t be done?
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:43 pm

Just tariffs, I think.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:04 pm

If we can leave with regulatory alignment then at least the referendum is dealt with and we can have a proper general election based on competing visions of a future - even if both those alternative futures are worse than they otherwise would have been.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:18 pm

They’ve got a time limited customs agreement, to stop David Davis from leaving, but no specific time because that would be a commitment.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Chi_Rup » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:04 pm

Peter Bone MP has just threatened that if there is no final date on leaving the customs union he will take back his promise to build a statue of Theresa May in Wellingborough.

This is serious shit.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:24 pm

The whole thing is just absolute madness.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Lincoln » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:20 pm

Iolar wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:24 pm
The whole thing is just absolute madness.
Indeed...

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by shunter » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:25 pm

This whole row between May and Davis - it’s just meaningless, isn’t it? Nothing either say to each other, nor the fudged agreement between them, will have any impact on what comes to pass. Why don’t these idiots see this?
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:35 pm

There should be some 'hung, drawn and quartering' going on with some of these cunts.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Iolar » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:02 pm

Varadkar and Coveney were unimpressed on the news earlier. The taoiseach did seem happy, however, that after two years, the British had finally managed to publish a position paper on Brexit.
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by desertstorm » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:52 pm

A transcript of a very recent lecture (May 2018) by Ivan Rogers, the person who until early last year did the negotiation for UK with EU. This is his take on the current state of UK Brexit. It's long but I find it clarifying.

The unsurprising summary: groups from all sides of Brexit, but especially the government, are still selling fantasies and bullshit about the consequences of Brexit and the (limited) possibilities to deal with EU and the rest of the world regarding trade, and UK is most likely fucked.
At the moment, it sometimes feels, from the noise levels, that there are only three schools:

Those Remainers, who are in fact Reversers, who, whether genuinely or not, see no viable version of Brexit and want to put the issue back to the people as and when there is a final version of the Framework Agreement this year, presumably with the intended choice between that and the status quo ante the referendum, but minus the Cameron renegotiation package;
Those Leavers who view anything except the clearest complete rupture with the EU as an unacceptable betrayal of the “will of the people” and an act of sabotage of the “true path” Brexit – a path which will later have to be resumed if any of this perfidy were to succeed short term;
A third way school, which attempts to satisfy both the extremes by asserting that, from outside the EU, we can resume total control of our laws, borders and money and exercise full sovereignty, without intrusion by a foreign Court, but still retain virtually all the benefits of current trading arrangements with our former partners, whilst diverging from them to taste, wherever we derive advantage domestically or with other partners, from so doing. Plus of course still have a major role in setting the key policies of the bloc we have left.
I speak solely as one unaccountable individual, not elected to anything by anyone and with no aspiration ever to be. So my views are merely those of someone with, I hope, a bit of expertise, and a passionate interest in the future of my country.

But my view on each of these schools of thought is that all are wrong and are basically fantasist propositions.

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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:42 pm

That's a very good article. Thanks. Highly recommend everyone reads it.
The pies and sausage rolls are good in Australia - Iolar

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LonelyTeaPot
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:59 pm

It's not an article but an opinion piece but I agree that it's very good.

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Flobster!
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Re: Brexit - UK Economy in the Shitter

Post by Flobster! » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:03 pm

Well it's a lecture.
The pies and sausage rolls are good in Australia - Iolar

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