Cliven Bundy Part Two

Main Course

Moderator: Moderator

polardude1
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59276
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by polardude1 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:25 pm

Yet Lavite complains about federal sentencing guidelines being enforced
DCComic "3000 dead Americans is slightly less than fuck all",

demsrdumb
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 3991
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:16 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by demsrdumb » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:03 pm

polardude1 wrote:Yet Lavite complains about federal sentencing guidelines being enforced


Guidelines. What are Guidelines? You mean the "Judge" has discretion? Hmmm seems like he used "his" discretion and sentenced these men as he felt necessary.

Very similar to Obama, using his discretion,to not follow federal immigration law. Both subjects are not following the letter of the law. Yet you give Obama a pass, why? And then you demand or bay like hound treeing a coon, for full interpretation of said laws. please you noodle spined hypocrite, explain.

If these men must be sentenced to the full term of the federal statutes set forth by congress, executed by the executive branch then we must have a crack down on all illegal and negligent practices on and at all federal levels, starting with illegal immigration. Or following the law only some of the time is what you want? Or shall we leave it too the discretion already merited out by a judge?
“A tax payer voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.”

Annie Oakley = "I got nothing."

To a liberal diversity is people of different races, genders and sexual preferences, who all think the same......

polardude1
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59276
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by polardude1 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:05 pm

Guidelines. What are Guidelines? You mean the "Judge" has discretion? Hmmm seems like he used "his" discretion and sentenced these men as he felt necessary.

No, guidelines, just plain guide lines
DCComic "3000 dead Americans is slightly less than fuck all",

User avatar
Lavite
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 13136
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:49 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Lavite » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:09 pm

demsrdumb wrote: If these men must be sentenced to the full term of the federal statutes set forth by congress, executed by the executive branch then we must have a crack down on all illegal and negligent practices on and at all federal levels, starting with illegal immigration. Or following the law only some of the time is what you want? Or shall we leave it too the discretion already merited out by a judge?


I would love to see the feds actually enforce existing firearm laws and sentencing. For example, in the federal district were Chicago resides, firearm prosecutions are the lowest in the nation.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:32 pm

Which enumerated power in the Constitution gives Congress the power to pass laws regarding immigration, tourist, student visas, passport issuance, etc.?

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:38 pm

Also, has Congress passed laws and appropriations for holding facilities for everyone not legally present that comes into contact with law enforcement officials?

User avatar
Chip_Oatley
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 27349
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Chip_Oatley » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:51 pm

Those big babies. Haven't they even been camping?! "Send socks!" Two days in.

User avatar
VinnyD
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59552
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:52 pm

CB: Article I, section 8: The Congress shall have power to . . . provide for the . . . general welfare of the United States.

There is also the provision forbidding Congress (in obscure language) to ban the importation of slaves for twenty years after adoption of the Constitution. That could be read as implicitly granting Congress the power to regulate who can and cannot enter the US, subject to that one exception.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:52 pm

I'm trying to figure out how to post them jalapeno poppers.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:53 pm

VinnyD wrote:CB: Article I, section 8: The Congress shall have power to . . . provide for the . . . general welfare of the United States.


I have a feeling those who are irate over "sanctuary cities" don't have that inclusive a view of this section as you.

There is also the provision forbidding Congress (in obscure language) to ban the importation of slaves for twenty years after adoption of the Constitution. That could be read as implicitly granting Congress the power to regulate who can and cannot enter the US, subject to that one exception.


Seems like a stretch.

User avatar
VinnyD
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59552
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:11 pm

I don't know.

Section 9: The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

If Congress had not had the power to prohibit the migration of people whom the states thought proper to admit, then that section would not have been necessary at all. And if Congress has the power to prohibit the migration of people that the states think proper to admit, then it has the power to decide who will be allowed to migrate here and who will be prohibited from migration.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:13 pm

For much of the 19th century, the federal government pretty much stayed out of immigration except to tax entrants.

User avatar
Right_Turn
Evil Overlord
Posts: 6757
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:58 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Right_Turn » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:21 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:For much of the 19th century, the federal government pretty much stayed out of immigration except to tax entrants.


Yeah, they also stayed out of the business of housing, schooling, and feeding said immigrants. We also had a slightly different economy and national needs then, too.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:23 pm

Right_Turn wrote:
Citizen Baba wrote:For much of the 19th century, the federal government pretty much stayed out of immigration except to tax entrants.


Yeah, they also stayed out of the business of housing, schooling, and feeding said immigrants. We also had a slightly different economy and national needs then, too.


Tell that to your Teabagger friends.

User avatar
Chip_Oatley
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 27349
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Chip_Oatley » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:32 pm

http://usuncut.com/news/5-government-ha ... s-receive/

5 US Govt handouts the Bundys receive

User avatar
VinnyD
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59552
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:07 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:For much of the 19th century, the federal government pretty much stayed out of immigration except to tax entrants.

So?

was that supposed to be a response to what I said about enumerated powers?

User avatar
Right_Turn
Evil Overlord
Posts: 6757
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:58 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Right_Turn » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:23 pm

I still think the biggest potential for violence related to the Bundy people is that they're going to piss off the wrong local who also doesn't like being told what to do by outsiders.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:25 pm

Right_Turn wrote:I still think the biggest potential for violence related to the Bundy people is that they're going to piss off the wrong local who also doesn't like being told what to do by outsiders.


Yeah, sounds like the locals are already pissed at them. It sounds like when lefties block traffic in an odd attempt to gain support. The fact they needed to close schools suggests this issue is going to have to be resolved sooner rather than later.

User avatar
rider5
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 17780
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:45 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by rider5 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:28 pm

I heard on the radio this morning a spokesman for the Bundy group said if the locals wanted them to leave the area, they would.

I'm not sure I quite believe that, or how the locals would communicate that request, but there it is.

User avatar
2wilzgood
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 14355
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by 2wilzgood » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:34 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:For much of the 19th century, the federal government pretty much stayed out of immigration except to tax entrants.


Yeah, but, once they did start exercising their power, they went whole hog,

Page Act of 1875

Chinese Exclusion Act

Immigration Act of 1882

Immigration Act of 1917

Emergency Immigration Act of 1921

Immigration Act of 1924

The Immigration Act of 1924, or Johnson–Reed Act, including the National Origins Act, and Asian Exclusion Act (Pub.L. 68–139, 43 Stat. 153, enacted May 26, 1924), was a United States federal law that limited the annual number of immigrants who could be admitted from any country to 2% of the number of people from that country who were already living in the United States in 1890, down from the 3% cap set by the Immigration Restriction Act of 1921, according to the Census of 1890. It superseded the 1921 Emergency Quota Act. The law was primarily aimed at further restricting immigration of Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans. In addition, it severely restricted the immigration of Africans and outright banned the immigration of Arabs and Asians. According to the U.S. Department of State Office of the Historian the purpose of the act was "to preserve the ideal of American homogeneity". Congressional opposition was minimal.


Good times, American homogeneity! Dirty, swarthy types need not apply, though nothing in there about Mexicans...
I used to feel empathy for the poor. Now I just want them all to die. - ScottBaio
You will die like a dog for no good reason. - Ernest Hemingway
My efforts here are wasted - wilz

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:40 pm

2wilzgood wrote:Yeah, but, once they did start exercising their power, they went whole hog


Yep, once the founders were dead.

User avatar
2wilzgood
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 14355
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by 2wilzgood » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:55 pm

Image

Image

Is that fire legal? Last I knew, fires on federal property are permitted only in designated locations, so these Bundites seem to be breaking federal law regarding fire.

Hey, isn't that what got the Hammonds five years in the pokey? Hmm, I think I see a way to resolve this standoff. Send the Bundites to keep the Hammonds company.
I used to feel empathy for the poor. Now I just want them all to die. - ScottBaio
You will die like a dog for no good reason. - Ernest Hemingway
My efforts here are wasted - wilz

Total Reject
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 2587
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Total Reject » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:05 pm

Chip_Oatley wrote:http://usuncut.com/news/5-government-handouts-bundys-receive/
5 US Govt handouts the Bundys receive
Over the years they were probably offered grants, rebates, and tax incentives by every state and federal conservation agency in their region. The joke is that most of the ranchers cussing about the government are the first ones with their hands out trying to take advantage of free money.

User avatar
VinnyD
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59552
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by VinnyD » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:59 pm

One of the occupiers spoke on NPR this morning. He used the nom de guerre "Fluffy Unicorn". I am not making that up.

This, however, is made up:

Image

User avatar
cowtown
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 25225
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:53 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by cowtown » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:54 pm

I feel the media is being way too kind, sympathetic to them and why do they keep calling them Militia /militiamen instead of terrorist? If Baio doesn’t post on this soon, perhaps I’ll have to


Basically, a bunch of welfare queens that want to steal from the rest of us because their government handouts are not enough to support the lifestyle they feel they deserve

If they got what they wanted, they’d end up poorer and we’d be here again in 2 years when the banks try to foreclose on their ranches because they failed to pay on their government back loans “the government is trying to steal our land’ would be their next cause de terror

Many the republican candidates are way too soft, quite about this too, fucking traitors
Jim-2012 wrote:I *heart* Hitler



Image

User avatar
korgy
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 23944
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:55 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by korgy » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:26 pm

was listening to a public school librarian the other day talking about how one of the buildings is a museum for the Wildlife Refuge, and she used to love taking kids there.

what a bunch of selfish dicks.
"Iranians apparently disagree with korgy"

polardude1
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59276
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by polardude1 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:41 pm

Posts: 13290Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:55 amLocation: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Postby korgy » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:26 pm

was listening to a public school librarian the other day talking about how one of the buildings is a museum for the Wildlife Refuge, and she used to love taking kids there.


Well UI guess it's still not as bad a Palestinian gunman who occupied the Church of Nativity in Bethlehem. At least the nature center ahs a public bathroom
DCComic "3000 dead Americans is slightly less than fuck all",

User avatar
korgy
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 23944
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:55 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by korgy » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:08 pm

the American Indian tribe associated with this land is now making the obvious point that this is not the property of the protesters. it is pretty special for these selfish ranch dudes to whine about the Federal govt stealing land from them.

The leader of an American Indian tribe that regards an Oregon nature preserve as sacred issued a rebuke Wednesday to the armed men who are occupying the property, saying they are not welcome at the snowy bird sanctuary and must leave.

The Burns Paiute tribe was the latest group to speak out against the men, who have taken several buildings at the preserve to protest policies governing the use of federal land in the West.

"The protesters have no right to this land. It belongs to the native people who live here," tribal leader Charlotte Rodrique said.

She spoke at a news conference at the tribe's cultural center, about half-hour drive from Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, which is being occupied by some 20 men led by Ammon Bundy, whose father Cliven was at the center of a standoff in Nevada with federal officials in 2014 over use of public lands.

Ammon Bundy is demanding that the refuge be handed over to locals.

Rodrique said she "had to laugh" at the demand, because she knew Bundy was not talking about giving the land to the tribe.

The 13,700-acre Burns Paiute Reservation is north of this remote town in Oregon sagebrush country. The reservation is separate from the wildlife refuge, but tribal members consider it part of their ancestral land.

As with other tribes, the Burns' Paiute's link to the land is marked by a history of conflict with white settlers and the U.S. government. In the late 1800s, they were forced off a sprawling reservation created by an 1872 treaty that was never ratified. Some later returned and purchased property in the Burns area, where about 200 tribal members now live. (continues)


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/arme ... s-36111763
"Iranians apparently disagree with korgy"

User avatar
section8
the Secret Sauce
Posts: 27961
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:46 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by section8 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:53 am

Image
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

User avatar
Flobster!
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 28704
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:12 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Flobster! » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:18 am

Are we all aware that the "Committee of Public Safety" that held a meeting today is in fact a Bundy invention?

User avatar
Flobster!
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 28704
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:12 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Flobster! » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:17 am

And the Committe meeting told Bundy to leave. Which means he will, leaving behind a sham organisation that regards itself as an alternative government for the town, has control of militias and thinks it can arrest the governor.

This aint over.

User avatar
2wilzgood
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 14355
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by 2wilzgood » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:25 am

Those must be some good drugs. And yet you appear to be capable of typing grammatically correct English, mostly correct anyway.

Sham organization > can arrest the governor

About those drugs?
I used to feel empathy for the poor. Now I just want them all to die. - ScottBaio
You will die like a dog for no good reason. - Ernest Hemingway
My efforts here are wasted - wilz

User avatar
Flobster!
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 28704
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:12 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Flobster! » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:50 am

It's sham in that it was not set up by the townspeople, but by the militia. It has threatened to arrest the governor, although it's unlikely to try.

User avatar
Lavite
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 13136
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:49 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Lavite » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:57 am

Some reporters actually started doing a little investigative reporting. A number of the militia patriots are Stolen Valor Assholes. They claim military service and honor they never earned. Fluffy Unicorn is a prime example. He never served in the Marines and he never do two tours of combat. He is a failed tattoo artist with a long history of DUIs.

The thing is, anyone who is a veteran generally spots a fraud easy enough. They exaggerate far too much.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule.

User avatar
incognita
red fanged She-devil
Posts: 20179
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:11 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by incognita » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:10 pm

Things don't seem to be going very well on the protesters side. They're getting paranoid and fighting:

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-militants-brawl-as-friends-beg-them-to-go-home-youre-surrounded-by-informants/
As an adult, the beer aisle at the grocery makes me feel exactly like the cereal aisle made me feel as a kid.

8645

User avatar
Chip_Oatley
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 27349
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Chip_Oatley » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:11 pm

section8 wrote:Image



What a phony--you can tell by the way he's not even wearing a real hunter's cap.

User avatar
incognita
red fanged She-devil
Posts: 20179
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:11 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by incognita » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:42 pm

They did get free snacks. Peta sent them vegan bacon.
As an adult, the beer aisle at the grocery makes me feel exactly like the cereal aisle made me feel as a kid.

8645

User avatar
Espina
Wanted: Dead or Alive
Posts: 4076
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:03 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Espina » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:55 pm

They actually have a website now: Harney County Committee of Safety

In 1774, as the likelihood of war drew near, Committees were formed to assure that civil authority would continue. Worchester, Massachusetts, established a Committee of Safety; declared independence from British rule, discharged the militia, then opened the muster rolls, not allowing anybody with Tory sympathies to enroll, and commissioned officers; and, established courts to deal with criminal matters. They did not petition, they acted. The time for petitioning (redress of grievances) was over. They did not support candidates for the British government; they made their own government.


and

Committee of Safety: A governmental body established by the people in the absence of the ability of the existing government to provide for the needs and protection of civilized society


Basically, a "We want what already exists except when we don't get are way" retort.
Image
Image

User avatar
cuchulainn
Instigator
Posts: 29592
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:57 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by cuchulainn » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:23 am

One seditious hillbilly was arrested.


Sam Levin in Burns, Oregon, and Nicky Woolf in San Francisco
Saturday 16 January 2016 00.43 GMT Last modified on Saturday 16 January 2016 02.41 GMT

The standoff with armed militia in Oregon escalated on Friday after police swooped in on one of the protesters to make the first arrest in connection with the two-week occupation of a federal wildlife refuge.

Kenneth Medenbach, who was arrested for unauthorized use of a government vehicle, is a chainsaw sculptor and longtime nemesis of the government with a history of previous entanglements with the courts over the occupation of federal lands.

He is the first militiaman connected to the armed occupation to be arrested since the bird sanctuary in rural Oregon was unexpectedly taken over on 2 January.

Medenbach, 62, was detained outside a Safeway supermarket in Burns, Oregon, some 30 miles from the Malheur national wildlife refuge, according to a statement from the Harney County sheriff’s office.

He appears to have driven from the occupied compound to a local supermarket in a vehicle allegedly stolen from the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which runs the refuge. The sheriff’s office statement said that law enforcement officers recovered “two vehicles stolen from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge”.

Medenbach’s company, Chainsaw Creations, lists cabins, furniture, and signs for sale, as well as sculpted animals, with a specialty in bears and eagles. A biography on the website for a gallery that sells his woodwork says that Medenbach was born in Massachusetts, the second-youngest of five children, and that he spent 40 years in the construction trade.

This is not Medenbach’s first tangle with the law. He is currently out on bail, according to court documents, awaiting trial for a seven-month residential occupation of government land between May and November 2015.

Medenbach was tried and convicted of the same crime in 1996. According to a forest service officer who testified at that trial, Medenbach was living in “an eight-by-ten-foot tent with a metal flue and wood-burning stove, a nearby campfire, and various cooking and sleeping equipment”.



According to a court memorandum, the magistrate said that Medenbach posed a risk to public safety and said that he had referenced Ruby Ridge and Waco, two sieges that ended in violence. At a detention hearing, the government said that Medenbach had tried to protect his campsite with “50 to 100 pounds of the explosive ammonium sulfate, a pellet gun, and what appeared to be a hand grenade with trip wires.”

Convicted and given a six-month suspended sentence, Medenbach appealed the case to the federal ninth circuit court, where he argued that federal ownership of unappropriated public lands was unconstitutional. He also filed a civil suit to demand that federal judges no longer swear an oath of affirmation under the constitution, a position he defended in this blog post from January 2015.

According to one local report, the two vehicles, one a pickup truck and one a passenger van, bore door signs reading “Harney County Resource Center” – the new name occupiers have given to the sanctuary. The man police suspected of driving the second government vehicle into town already had gone into the grocery store before police arrived, the report said.

The arrest, which marks the first confrontation between law enforcement and the armed occupiers, came hours before Ammon Bundy, the leader of the militia, and the other armed men had planned to hold a meeting with the local community at which the occupiers said they planned to discuss ending the protest.

It is unclear how central a figure Medenbach was to the occupation at the refuge, or how long he had been staying there. However, his commitment to the extreme ideology of rightwing constitutionalists is not in doubt.

Medenbach spoke with The Guardian on the 2nd of January at the public rally in support of the Hammonds, held in the same Safeway car park where he was arrested. When asked why he was attending, he offered similar constitutional theories as those offered by other militia members. He claimed to have been involved in this stand-off as a member of the Oath Keepers militia.


He was extensively profiled in the 1999 book Terrorists Among Us: The Militia Threat, by retired Indiana police captain Robert L Snow. At the time, Snow wrote, Medenbach was building his own home on five acres of land in Crescent, Oregon, out of “discarded refrigerators, water heaters, and other such material.” Medenbach, according to Snow, subscribed to the legal theory that state bar associations are unconstitutional, and so courts have no authority over him.

“I’m willing to pay the price for my convictions,” Medenbach told Snow. “Someday, when the laws become too stringent, people will start waking up.”

Armed militia have been seen driving the government vehicles around the refuge ever since they took over the site in protest over federal land management policies earlier this month. Legal experts have told the Guardian that the occupiers could face hefty fines and more than 10 years of imprisonment.

A USFWS spokesperson Megan Nagel said: “The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is grateful for the quick actions from law enforcement. We will continue to work with law enforcement to recover vehicles bought and paid for by the American people to care for their national wildlife refuge.”

It was unclear Friday whether the scheduled 7pm meeting between the militia and local residents would go ahead. The militia leaders had said they planned to speak directly with residents and explain their plans to leave the federal land. Officials in rural Harney County, who have become increasingly outspoken against the militia, have denied them access to public buildings, saying they refuse to host a group that supports the illegal takeover of government property.

On Thursday, Bundy was expressing doubts about whether the meeting would happen at all if the militia couldn’t find a venue.

Harney County judge Steve Grasty said he was grateful that officials have made an arrest. “At some point, criminal actions become so blatant that they just can’t be ignored,” he said. “At some point, criminal actions become so blatant that they just can’t be ignored.”

He said law enforcement is trying to end this without violence, but must make every effort to hold people accountable for their crimes. “Perhaps that’ll give Bundy and his friends incentive not to be driving around these vehicles,” he added.

Corey Lequieu, a 45-year-old occupier who is still at the refuge, said he was reluctant to believe the reports of his fellow militiaman’s arrest. “It may not even be true. I’m hoping it’s not true,” he said. “I’m very leery about their press releases and press conferences. That sheriff has lied before.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... -medenbach

User avatar
section8
the Secret Sauce
Posts: 27961
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:46 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by section8 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:30 am

I want a 10,000 acre ranch in southeastern Arizona. Why won't the government give it to me?
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 52790
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Lost Soul » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:53 am

The Baca Float is nice land.

As is the Babocomari.

You need to go to Madrid and change the name on the land grant to S8.
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

User avatar
section8
the Secret Sauce
Posts: 27961
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:46 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by section8 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:02 am

Babocomari is exactly what I had in mind. It's even closed to a ghost town with the same name as my hometown. I'd go take it, but the owners would probably shoot me.
This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 52790
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Lost Soul » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:11 am

It's lush enough, with enough rain, creek and springs, to make money ranching.
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Citizen Baba » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:41 am

For some reason, they've requested people send them dildos.


User avatar
kirrabi
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 7004
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:17 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by kirrabi » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:05 pm

Lost Soul wrote:You need to go to Madrid and change the name on the land grant to S8.

My family on my father's side had Spanish land grants. The Mexican government honored them but alas the USA did not. We never did get out there to have a look around because no one wanted to go to no where. That's the impression I got when I asked about it.
His gizzard was stuffed so full of rubies he sounded like a bag of marbles when he waddled past the Mogok checkpoint and anyone who saw him would swear he had been force fed for the purpose of making a fine foie gras. – a passage from Legends of the Duck

User avatar
Right_Turn
Evil Overlord
Posts: 6757
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:58 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Right_Turn » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:20 pm

kirrabi wrote:
Lost Soul wrote:You need to go to Madrid and change the name on the land grant to S8.

My family on my father's side had Spanish land grants. The Mexican government honored them but alas the USA did not. We never did get out there to have a look around because no one wanted to go to no where. That's the impression I got when I asked about it.


Part of my family received Spanish land grants in Texas and the title(s) made it through the Spanish, Mexican, Republic of Texas, and U.S. governments.

Number of acres that made it to my father's generation = zero.

If it's any consolation, seven generations or so of families having 8-10 kids cuts up even a huge tract of land in to pretty tiny pieces.

User avatar
kirrabi
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 7004
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:17 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by kirrabi » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:54 pm

The R. of Texas bridge between Mexico and the USA probably helped your family's transition. My family is from New Mexico. I only heard it discussed once. I can't shed any more light on the situation. My cousin said she'd drive out there with me some time. Given the distance between us and the location in New Mexico it would be a ten day trip.
His gizzard was stuffed so full of rubies he sounded like a bag of marbles when he waddled past the Mogok checkpoint and anyone who saw him would swear he had been force fed for the purpose of making a fine foie gras. – a passage from Legends of the Duck

User avatar
VinnyD
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 59552
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by VinnyD » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:45 am

My brother-in-law had (and my sister his widow has) a copy (another branch of the family has the original) of the grant to an ancestor of his mother from George Carteret, one of the eight Lords Proprietor of the province of Carolina of the land the family homestead is on. And a lot of other land which is no longer in the family for reasons RT suggests.

You had to erect a house with a chimney on the land within a certain period or lose the grant. That chimney and fireplace are still there, although the rest of the house is more recent, mostly c. 1900. And the house was moved about 50 meters when a road was widened within living memory.

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 52790
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Cliven Bundy Part Two

Post by Lost Soul » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:46 am

kirrabi wrote:
Lost Soul wrote:You need to go to Madrid and change the name on the land grant to S8.

My family on my father's side had Spanish land grants. The Mexican government honored them but alas the USA did not. We never did get out there to have a look around because no one wanted to go to no where. That's the impression I got when I asked about it.

There was litigation for about a century in Arizona cleaning up the land titles. On top of the legitimate ones, there were fraudulent ones. One guy, Peralta, actually went to Madrid and forged a land grant giving him title to half of Arizona, including Phoenix and Tucson.

One legitimate grant that was upheld all the way to the Supreme Court was the Baca Float. Since they couldn't find a tract of land as big as the original, the parties agreed to break it up into five 100,000 acre chunks and 'float' them around the southwest in Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/columns/articles/0220clay20.html
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

Post Reply