Corbyn - moving to the endgame

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:05 pm

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:You both can call it IRA

Others may say they were interested in Irish rights.


The two are not self exclusionary. Both Corbyn and McDonnell have openly sympathised with the IRA although I suspect that the even harder left INLA might be more McDonnells cup of tea.
What is your response to my question on Benn And Livingston, Shunter?


Benn was a rich dilettante playing at proletarian politics, I voted for Livingstone as Mayor once and once only because I was so outraged at the dissolution of the GLC but he is, was and always will be a cunt, Tony Banks was 100% correct about him.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:15 am

Nick Cohen:

This could be the end of the Labour party
It has no way forward even as a credible opposition so long as it follows Corbyn's vicious, vacuous creed
Nick Cohen

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/this ... our-party/

English Conservatives and Scottish Nationalists do not wake at 3 a.m., drenched in sweat, worrying about how they can defeat Jeremy Corbyn. Like a drunk who punches his own face, Corbyn beats himself, leaving Labour’s rivals free to do what they will. For English leftists, however, trying to salvage what they can from the wreckage of their party, the apparently simple question of how to take on the far left appears impossible to answer.

Commentators throw around the ‘far left’ label without stopping to ask what it means. You begin to understand its echoing emptiness when you look around and notice Corbyn has no good writers on his side. In my world of liberal journalism, everyone is saying that when talented journalists decide to support Corbyn, their talent abandons them, and they produce gushing pieces that would embarrass a lovestruck teenager.

The last upsurge of left-wing militancy in the 1970s had Eric Hobsbawm, E.P. Thompson and other formidable socialist thinkers behind it. Joseph Stiglitz, Thomas Piketty and Danny Blanchflower looked like their successors. They too have produced formidable work on how to make society fairer. They agreed to help Corbyn, but walked away after discovering that Corbynism is just a sloganising personality cult: an attitude, rather than a programme to reform the country. That attitude is banal in content, conspiracist in essence, utopian in aspiration and vicious in practice.

Paradoxically, it is all the harder to defeat for that. Consider its components, and understand the difficulties facing Labour’s moderates. Conspiracy theory saturates the far left as thoroughly as it saturates the far right. It is its default mode of thought. Its answer to everything. Attention to date has concentrated on Corbyn supporters’ embrace of the Jewish — forgive me, ‘Zionist’ — conspiracy theory.

[Alt-Text]
But anti-Semitic prejudice is only one of dozens of paranoid fantasies that fight for the right to fill tiny minds that want to wish the world away. In one poll, 90 per cent of Corbyn supporters believed that a PR agency organised ‘the coup’ against him. The story comes from a left-wing website called The Canary, which does not pretend to offer its readers evidence. Any disinterested observer can see the ‘coup’ was a vote of no confidence passed by panicked Labour MPs, who thought the Prime Minster might call an early election.

Yet the deceit of a clickbait site, which pays its reporters by how many hits their pieces receive rather than by how much truth they tell, is believed, while the public record is ignored.

Elsewhere, Corbyn’s supporters explain away the terrible opinion polls by saying that they are the bitter fruits of a Tory conspiracy. Not stopping there, they go on to see the invisible hand of MI5 raised against them everywhere from Twitter to the BBC.

You can look at how globalisation, the crash, the fall in real wages, mass immigration and the Iraq war have created a paranoid consciousness across the West. But to understand wilful and self-serving stupidity is not to pardon it. Nor is it to underestimate how hard wilful stupidity is to penetrate. Once hooked, the faithful can find reasons to dismiss any fact that contradicts their ecstatic certainties, and in Trump’s America as much as in Corbyn’s Labour party, there seems no way to get through to them.

Corbyn’s banality, which has driven serious leftists away, is not the unmitigated political disaster it seems either. As with so many who call themselves socialists, it has let him embrace Islamist movements, which are fascist in their political outlook, and Russia’s conservative and kleptomaniac autocracy. This has been my left-wing generation’s greatest betrayal, and its hypocrisy and cynicism is exacting a heavy political price. Yet the banality that allows disgraceful alliances also ensures that the far left does not have to commit to a specific domestic programme.

Utopias are always banal. Corbyn’s Utopia allows his supporters to wallow in the warmth of self-righteousness. They want to end austerity. Stop greed. Bring peace. How they do it is not their concern. Practicalities are dangerous. They take you away from utopia and back into the messy, Blairite realm of compromises and second-bests.

Anyone who knows history knows that utopianism can justify viciousness. By his supporters’ reasoning, leftists who are against Corbyn must be in favour of poverty, greed and war. All tactics are justified in the struggle against such monsters.

I am basing this article on the assumption that Owen Smith’s challenge will fail. If it does, the weekend press will be full of articles criticising Smith’s tactics. I hope at least a few have the grace to acknowledge that Smith, Angela Eagle and other Labour MPs have shown moral courage and some physical bravery. The viciousness works. Many in the Labour movement, including several I contacted for this article, are frightened of speaking out against Corbyn. At least Smith and those who stood alongside him would not be silenced.

If Corbyn wins, it will prove, too, that the far left’s combination of conspiracy theory, banality, utopianism and viciousness has Labour under its thumb. You glimpse the scale of the disaster that will follow by looking at how the arguments between Corbyn and his opponents did not even cover the great shifts in opinion that have crippled Labour and other European social democratic parties in the 2010s. Is Labour a patriotic party, for instance? Corbyn will go along with any regime or movement, however right-wing, as long as it is anti-western. But the sleaziness of his behaviour has allowed his opponents to avoid a question that the rise of the SNP should have made unavoidable: can they create a progressive English patriotism?

As the 2015 election and the EU referendum showed, Labour has to find a way of bridging the divide between its liberal middle-class and socially conservative working-class supporters on immigration and multiculturalism. Corbyn’s presence ensured it has not begun to look for a path, let alone find one.

I do not want to believe that the English liberal-left will sit back and allow the Conservatives to rule from 2010 until 2025, or beyond. But under Corbyn, I cannot see how the Labour party goes forward as a credible opposition, let alone a credible government. Perhaps Labour’s day is done, and it is time for something new. Whatever it is, it can hardly be worse.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Lincoln » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:32 pm

Very well played for the Nifty there pisser.

A knock of distinction.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Chi_Rup » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:58 am

Jeremy swin with 62%, more than last year. At this rate he'll have 100% by 2020!

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:04 am

Good.
Now. Maybe the LP can concentrate on the 75% of the electorate who didn't vote Tory last time instead of trying to Blair their way into being acceptable to 3or 4 % of Tory waverers.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:17 am

Another year of incompetence, no doubt, followed by another challenge but this hopefully with a centrist candidate. Corbyn cannot bring unity as his values are absurd and unbritish.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:28 am

shunter wrote:Another year of incompetence, no doubt, followed by another challenge but this hopefully with a centrist candidate. Corbyn cannot bring unity as his values are absurd and unbritish.


Can you illustrate that point with some absurd and unbritish Corbyn values?
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:40 am

IRA
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:41 am

NATO
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Lime_Pickle » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:44 am

Maybe the LP can concentrate on the 75% of the electorate who didn't vote Tory last time instead of trying to Blair their way into being acceptable to 3 or 4 % of Tory waverers.


Yeh, that's going to happen.
Wibble.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:51 am

Exactly. It's not like there are large swathes of the electorate who declined to vote for milliband because he wasn't incompetent or left wing enough.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:07 pm

So, in your opinion the Iraq invasion was a reasonable and British thing, while the NI peace process and the Good Friday accord were absurd and unBritish.

Gotcha.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:09 pm

I wasn't in favour of the Iraq war and Corbyn was opposed to the Northern Ireland peace process. If Britain was involved in any conflict he would suport the other side.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:14 pm

Neither of those things are true.
And we won't get an extra £350 million a week for the NHS.
And there are no unicorns.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by CatScanMan » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:28 pm

Endgame olo

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by The Mallard Missie » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:52 pm

DCComic wrote:Good.
Now. Maybe the LP can concentrate on the 75% of the electorate who didn't vote Tory last time instead of trying to Blair their way into being acceptable to 3or 4 % of Tory waverers.


The Lonely Plagiarist?
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:10 pm

DCComic wrote:Neither of those things are true.
And we won't get an extra £350 million a week for the NHS.
And there are no unicorns.


He was opposed to the peace process as was McDonnell because they wanted the IRA to win; they didn't want those dead "heroes" dying in vain.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:21 pm

Troll.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:27 pm

I know you are but its ok I dont mind articulating why corbyns labour get annihilated at the next general election. Brutish voters are a fairly co set at ie bunch and unilateral disarmed who suport the IRA just do t stand a chance.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Flobster! » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:22 pm

This endgame is definitely going over the 12 month mark then.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Moniker_X » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:04 pm

I'm genuinely puzzled when people talk about British values. We have our own distinct culture, yes, but I can't think of a single value that's especially British.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:07 pm

Can you think of values that are unbritish?
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Chi_Rup » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:08 pm

Tipping.

and

Circumcision.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Flobster! » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:14 pm

Being Polish.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:33 pm

Supporting the IRA and not supporting our allies.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/je ... r-the-ira/
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:04 pm

shunter wrote:Supporting the IRA and not supporting our allies.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/je ... r-the-ira/


Jingoistic nonsense.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:22 pm

It's not jingoistic to be intractably opposed to the IRA.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by VinnyD » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:41 pm

I haven't been following this thread. We are still moving toward the endgame, right? Not yet (after a year and 13 pages) in the endgame?

Are we all sure we are not still in the opening? We are in the midgame, but at some point we will be in the endgame, so in that sense we are moving toward it? Will we still be moving toward it a year from now, and a year from then?

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:53 pm

If a thing will have an end that has yet to be reached we are moving towards it.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:39 pm

Now that I agree with. If Jesus can die then surely Jeremy can. At some point there will be a new leader. But how to ensure he is not an incompetent extremist?
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Mr_Fraud » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:29 pm

I think we are past end game for Labour, a social democratic party may arise from the ashes but in its form Labour are dead. The UK did not go for Millibands version of a left wing government and this lot are not going to win votes beyond the echo chamber of twatterti and faceache users. Its such fun to watch, Labour screwed the country much more that the Tories in a few short years and they will never be forgiven. For sure they will win the idiot vote for a red seats, beyond that forget it. The Liddems will pick up seats, but the major winners if they can sort a few issues out are UKIP, a true forward thinking working mans party, a party of aspiration, a party made of winners, a party that has led the UK out of the EU, think on that.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:04 am

UKIP = 1 MP and he hates the rest of UKIP and they hate him. Think on that.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:50 am

I played in a chess sleeper cell

Our captain was 1-0

I was the 1.5 0.5 or 2-0

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:53 am

Shit faced as usual?

Anyway. Labour are 15 points behind in an ICM poll today.

Good.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:07 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54091.html

The Tories 17% ahead, worse in england-where most of the marginals are-the tories lead by 25% and with over 65s the tories LEAD BY 48%. How do you lead by 48%!

At 26% Jezza is 1% above Psycho Brooons lowest of 25%.

it is a disaster.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:04 am

So Baroness Chakrabati, the new AG, has stated that she disagrees with selective state education, this despite sending her own son to a selective school, albeit a private one that charges £18,000 pa for day students.

Shame chakrabarti was elevated to the House of Lords in David Camerons resignation honours list, despite Jezza previously stating that he would not create any new Peers as he disagrees with the House of lords (probably the only thing that Jezza is right about).

joining Baroness Chakrabati on the Shadow Front bench is Lady Nugee (AKA Emily Thornbery) who also opposes selective education while sending her own child to a semi-selective school 14 miles from her home. lady Nugee is shadow Foreign Secretary.

Also joining these two on the SFB is Dianne Abbott who sends her son to the selective, private school City of London Boys School (fees £20,000 pa for day students). Dianne Abbott is Shadow Home Secretary.

Straight talking, honest politics.


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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:07 am

With the government in chaos over brexit, labour are 17 points behind... wipeout looms
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by DCComic » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:44 am

Selective education condemns a load of kids to failure at the expense of a minority, so of course it's a shit idea.
Nevertheless if there is selective education you cant blame a parent for doing what they can for their own kid.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Tomska » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:35 pm

Wellpisser wrote:So Baroness Chakrabati, the new AG, has stated that she disagrees with selective state education, this despite sending her own son to a selective school, albeit a private one that charges £18,000 pa for day students.

Shame chakrabarti was elevated to the House of Lords in David Camerons resignation honours list, despite Jezza previously stating that he would not create any new Peers as he disagrees with the House of lords (probably the only thing that Jezza is right about).

joining Baroness Chakrabati on the Shadow Front bench is Lady Nugee (AKA Emily Thornbery) who also opposes selective education while sending her own child to a semi-selective school 14 miles from her home. lady Nugee is shadow Foreign Secretary.

Also joining these two on the SFB is Dianne Abbott who sends her son to the selective, private school City of London Boys School (fees £20,000 pa for day students). Dianne Abbott is Shadow Home Secretary.

Straight talking, honest politics.


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And yet you've sucked the Tory cock without complaint for the last 6 years like a rentboy with a massive coke debt to pay. Why don't you just give up and switch to the party that represents you?
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:58 pm

Seamus Milne today said critising Russia deflected from the atrocities the US committed. These labour guys in the leadership really are terrible cunts. It's amazing that the official opposition in this stupid country could try and claim any degree of equivalence between Russia and the US.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:36 am

Corbyns approval rating is now -41

Theresa May + 30

The Tories have a 12% lead in the polls.

naturally this is all the fault of the plotters/coup and the fact that the people are not being offered a proper left wing alternative to blah blah blah. Which is why they sigh and prefer Tory, because Labour aren't left wing enough.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:22 am

Tomska wrote:
Wellpisser wrote:So Baroness Chakrabati, the new AG, has stated that she disagrees with selective state education, this despite sending her own son to a selective school, albeit a private one that charges £18,000 pa for day students.

Shame chakrabarti was elevated to the House of Lords in David Camerons resignation honours list, despite Jezza previously stating that he would not create any new Peers as he disagrees with the House of lords (probably the only thing that Jezza is right about).

joining Baroness Chakrabati on the Shadow Front bench is Lady Nugee (AKA Emily Thornbery) who also opposes selective education while sending her own child to a semi-selective school 14 miles from her home. lady Nugee is shadow Foreign Secretary.

Also joining these two on the SFB is Dianne Abbott who sends her son to the selective, private school City of London Boys School (fees £20,000 pa for day students). Dianne Abbott is Shadow Home Secretary.

Straight talking, honest politics.


WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!


And yet you've sucked the Tory cock without complaint for the last 6 years like a rentboy with a massive coke debt to pay. Why don't you just give up and switch to the party that represents you?


do you feel better now?

The untrammeled power that the Tories now enjoy-despite having a majority of only 15 seats-is a direct result of cunts like you supporting ed Milliband because of some sort of weird dedication to ideological purity over the reality of power. Your refusal to compromise with the electorate means that the only effective opposition to Theresa May is Michael Gove. This is the fault of you and all of the others who supported Ed Milliband over David Milliband and Jezbollah over everybody else.

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:39 pm

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... emy-corbyn

Corbyn, now polling 25% and facing electoral oblivion, decides to employ a Sinn Fein activist. Disgraceful and idiotic.
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:24 pm

How can you credibly claim to be able to run the country when-for the 2nd year in a row (that we know of)-you cannot get your own tax return right?

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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:58 pm

You make it sound like there's some new information here about his competence.
1988: "We have a climate in Britain in which business wants to succeed and can succeed." Margaret Thatcher, speech to launch the European Single Market

2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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QPR_Paul
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by QPR_Paul » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:56 am

In his the budget speech, the chancellor outlined a plan to break the 2015 election pledge not to raise NI.

Corbyn completely missed it, and failed to mention it in his response at all.

He never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

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Wellpisser
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:24 am

Well we have all heard the Lansman tapes. It is quite clear that Momentum want to destroy the Labour Party as currently constituted and to replace it with their own Trotskyist creation.

On this day in 1997 the Labour Party had a 54% approval rating. Today that is just 25%. This is a calamity for the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

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Wellpisser
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:25 am

The Tories are now 20% ahead of Labour

In Scotland.

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shunter
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by shunter » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:50 pm

A sample of 124 for that conclusion.
1988: "We have a climate in Britain in which business wants to succeed and can succeed." Margaret Thatcher, speech to launch the European Single Market

2018: "Fuck business." Boris Johnson

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Wellpisser
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Re: Corbyn - moving to the endgame

Post by Wellpisser » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:29 pm

It may well have been 124 but this is a quality nifty.


*acknowledges applause from the pavillion*

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