Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by VinnyD » Wed May 15, 2019 3:43 pm

OnTheBall wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:08 am
guruwil wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:02 am
Notice something about this group of Alabama legislators responsible for this.

09DBB267-788E-4CD1-A4E2-7AF8DFF95160.jpeg
Why is the gender of the legislators even relevant? This is a question of science: "When does human life begin?" It is at that point that abortion should be illegal
That is not a question of science. It's a question of values. "At what point, if any, should we treat a fetus as a person, and therefore capable of being a murder victim?" I note that this law does not do that. If it did, the doctor, the woman having the abortion, and anyone knowingly helping to pay for it would all be subject to the death penalty in Alabama, and nurses and receptionists etc would be facing life without parole.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 3:45 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:37 pm
It’s a long standing political strategy to let cavemen hang themselves, to let the world get worse so the unenlightened will rise up and throw off their chains. It never happens.

But it does allow you to do nothing. If the legal autonomy over your body was threatened like it is for women in the USA you’d do something. Act like a violation of human rights affects you, a human.

The alternative for you sounds a lot like accepting less freedom and more pain for poor people for an indefinite amount of time until someone nice and centrist comes along. I think you should burn these people to the ground, not sit out and wait for them to fall over their shoes. As I say, they’re as smart as you and instinctively more aware of what it takes for them to survive.
It's not threatened for women in the USA. It's threatened for women in red states, many of whom either voted for it or can move if they don't like it.

I'd like to see some sort of federation and powers and spending devolve to the state. During the Obama administration, that's what many conservatives said, too. So, now we can agree with each other and start to make it happen.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by strife » Wed May 15, 2019 3:46 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:37 pm
It’s a long standing political strategy to let cavemen hang themselves, to let the world get worse so the unenlightened will rise up and throw off their chains. It never happens.

But it does allow you to do nothing. If the legal autonomy over your body was threatened like it is for women in the USA you’d do something. Act like a violation of human rights affects you, a human.

The alternative for you sounds a lot like accepting less freedom and more pain for poor people for an indefinite amount of time until someone nice and centrist comes along. I think you should burn these people to the ground, not sit out and wait for them to fall over their shoes. As I say, they’re as smart as you and instinctively more aware of what it takes for them to survive.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 3:47 pm

Higgs Bottom said recently that he thinks a conservative Supreme Court would only make limited rulings that would force Congress to act.

Does anyone else here really believe that?
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Annotated » Wed May 15, 2019 4:04 pm

Banning baby killers.

Outlandish!

You tards are the slaveholders of the 21st century. Your great grandchildren are going to look back on you in shame and lie about you out of embarrassment.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Vodd » Wed May 15, 2019 4:24 pm

And thanks to anno for providing the greatest argument for abortion
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 4:26 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:37 pm
It’s a long standing political strategy to let cavemen hang themselves, to let the world get worse so the unenlightened will rise up and throw off their chains. It never happens.

But it does allow you to do nothing. If the legal autonomy over your body was threatened like it is for women in the USA you’d do something. Act like a violation of human rights affects you, a human.

The alternative for you sounds a lot like accepting less freedom and more pain for poor people for an indefinite amount of time until someone nice and centrist comes along. I think you should burn these people to the ground, not sit out and wait for them to fall over their shoes. As I say, they’re as smart as you and instinctively more aware of what it takes for them to survive.
Doing nothing is what helped get to this point. Actually, doing nothing is not accurate. Abandoning is not doing nothing but is doing something.

But the VinnyD will argue that was the right decision and continues to believe it is not worth it for one of the two political parties in this nation to waste resources in a significant number of states.

The national Democratic party is stale & lazy as fuck and has grown dependent on the courts to do any heavy lifting or to protect what they claim to care about. But mostly, they are absent. They don't exist as an organization in a meaningful way at the local/state level in large swathes of the country. This was not an accident but a conscious decision. A conservative supreme court will force them to actually compete as a national party at all levels instead of getting fat off the soft grift of national politics. Maybe some of those political consultant grifters who infest Washington DC will organize buses of new Abortion Freedom Riders to head down South. What should be their anthem & who shall be their leader?

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 4:30 pm

If a threat to women “just in red states” doesn’t move you then you’ve already lost. It’s revealing what classes of people you’re willing to throw under a bus. If you’re genuinely happy to live with a geographical sliding scale of human rights in your own country.

When your opponent is determined to establish an authoritarian theocracy they will succeed if your opposition is to shrug and decide that their next move will be their Big Mistake. All you need to do is do better.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 4:33 pm

Just to add: we have a geographical sliding scale of human rights in the UK, with abortion illegal in Northern Ireland and the party who enable this in coalition with the government.

I’ve posted before about how we have a hard right theocratic party with a history of terrorism in government but generally British people don’t give a shit because nobody cares if the people of bumfuck nowhere are thrown under that bus. Anything for a quiet life.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 4:36 pm

There is no opposition. They would rather hang out in NYC, Baltimore/DC, California, Seattle to dial for dollars and pontificate, but have abandoned the playing field. Tribunes of the people from afar. But they can fund raise like crazy off of it, and that is all that matters.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by eric84 » Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm

Bullshit. Dems made significant gains in red states at state and national level the midterms. You should look them up. They have a democratic senator from Alabama, don't you know.

That doesn't excuse Republicans doing stupid, unconstitutional stuff.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by strife » Wed May 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Higgs Bossom wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:36 pm
There is no opposition. They would rather hang out in NYC, Baltimore/DC, California, Seattle to dial for dollars and pontificate, but have abandoned the playing field. Tribunes of the people from afar. But they can fund raise like crazy off of it, and that is all that matters.
This is true for many of us, but why apologize for it? It's clear what the majorities in states like Alabama and Mississippi and Oklahoma want, and I want nothing to do with what they want. At the same time, I won't apologize for drinking almond milk and dating yoga instructors and using public transit in a densely-populated city on the East Coast. I sympathize with someone like you, a non-varmint in a sea of varmints, but it seems like you're asking us to pander to reprehensible people in your states. No thanks. If the key to the varmint vote is to pander to their bigotry and social reactionism, their vote isn't worth having. Let's just go our own ways.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by shunter » Wed May 15, 2019 5:02 pm

Annotated wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:04 pm
Banning baby killers.

Outlandish!

You tards are the slaveholders of the 21st century. Your great grandchildren are going to look back on you in shame and lie about you out of embarrassment.
Not if we abort them first.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by LaFawnduh » Wed May 15, 2019 5:18 pm

eric84 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm
Bullshit. Dems made significant gains in red states at state and national level the midterms. You should look them up. They have a democratic senator from Alabama, don't you know.

That doesn't excuse Republicans doing stupid, unconstitutional stuff.
This plus Democratic Presidents from Arkansa and Texas one of whom passed the Civil Rights Act. It is not the fault of politicians from outside the Red States that ignorant backward stubborn people take advantage of State rights to maintain backwards initiatives like Jim Crow laws and anti-Abortion legislation and refuse to listen to reason and progress.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 5:45 pm

When Obama directs money earmarked for grassroots & state party building to his campaign instead then that is partly to blame. When the Clinton campaign coops DNC money raised for the state parties then that is part of the problem. This goes back before them, however. This is just an example of what I'm talking about. What is good for a bunch of political hacks feeding at the troughs of Obama or Clinton is not necessarily much benefit to those people they claim to champion in these abandoned places.

If Democrats are bothered & concerned about Republicans doing stupid unconstitutional stuff, then they might want to get in the game (instead of waiting for the Supreme Court to do the heavy lifting). And with a conservative court more likely to rule more narrowly and throw much of these controversial issues back to the states, the so-called champions of the "people" simply do not exist to be part of the solution.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 5:46 pm

Higgs Bossom wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:36 pm
There is no opposition. They would rather hang out in NYC, Baltimore/DC, California, Seattle to dial for dollars and pontificate, but have abandoned the playing field. Tribunes of the people from afar. But they can fund raise like crazy off of it, and that is all that matters.
(Don't you live in New Orleans?)

Well, we're certainly not moving to Huntsville. That's for sure.

The fact that they elected Trump makes me give much less of a shit about people in red states. Federalism is the answer.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Wed May 15, 2019 5:48 pm

Maybe you should split into 5 distinct entities.

You clearly are not a unified country.

How could you be with 300-400 million people.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 5:59 pm

strife wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:47 pm
Higgs Bossom wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:36 pm
There is no opposition. They would rather hang out in NYC, Baltimore/DC, California, Seattle to dial for dollars and pontificate, but have abandoned the playing field. Tribunes of the people from afar. But they can fund raise like crazy off of it, and that is all that matters.
This is true for many of us, but why apologize for it? It's clear what the majorities in states like Alabama and Mississippi and Oklahoma want, and I want nothing to do with what they want. At the same time, I won't apologize for drinking almond milk and dating yoga instructors and using public transit in a densely-populated city on the East Coast. I sympathize with someone like you, a non-varmint in a sea of varmints, but it seems like you're asking us to pander to reprehensible people in your states. No thanks. If the key to the varmint vote is to pander to their bigotry and social reactionism, their vote isn't worth having. Let's just go our own ways.
Pander? I just want them to show up & compete/make an argument. They haven't done much of that in a generation. It is partly why the right gets more & more extreme. There is little forcing Republicans to moderate since they face little to no opposition (except from their right) in too many places.
Last edited by Higgs Bossom on Wed May 15, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by birdlite » Wed May 15, 2019 6:09 pm

Annotated wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:04 pm
Banning baby killers.

Outlandish!

You tards are the slaveholders of the 21st century. Your great grandchildren are going to look back on you in shame and lie about you out of embarrassment.
The Alabama legislature is making women slaves.
A 11-year-old being forced to carry a rapist's baby to term is seeing that 11yo as a breeding animal.
Outlawing IUD's is treating women like chattel.
Outlawing doctors' best judgement is the Dark Ages.
The Museum of African-American History and Culture is in part a catalog of cruelty. Amid all the stories of perseverance, tragedy, and unlikely triumph are the artifacts of inhumanity and barbarism: the child-size slave shackles, the bright red robes of the wizards of the Ku Klux Klan, the recordings of civil-rights protesters being brutalized by police.

The artifacts that persist in my memory, the way a bright flash does when you close your eyes, are the photographs of lynchings. But it’s not the burned, mutilated bodies that stick with me. It’s the faces of the white men in the crowd. There’s the photo of the lynching of Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith in Indiana in 1930, in which a white man can be seen grinning at the camera as he tenderly holds the hand of his wife or girlfriend. There’s the undated photo from Duluth, Minnesota, in which grinning white men stand next to the mutilated, half-naked bodies of two men lashed to a post in the street—one of the white men is straining to get into the picture, his smile cutting from ear to ear. There’s the photo of a crowd of white men huddled behind the smoldering corpse of a man burned to death; one of them is wearing a smart suit, a fedora hat, and a bright smile.

Their names have mostly been lost to time. But these grinning men were someone’s brother, son, husband, father. They were human beings, people who took immense pleasure in the utter cruelty of torturing others to death—and were so proud of doing so that they posed for photographs with their handiwork, jostling to ensure they caught the eye of the lens, so that the world would know they’d been there. Their cruelty made them feel good, it made them feel proud, it made them feel happy. And it made them feel closer to one another.

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Now look at those pictures of the Alabama Senate
Watch the videos of the Alabama House ...and who was opposing the non-roll call motion.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by DCComic » Wed May 15, 2019 6:15 pm

Jesus - commentators are calling this the beginning of a nationwide attack on Roe.

There are enough people who believe a dumb mass of cells has precedence over the woman it's inside to make this a real threat - it's like a whole country being taken over by the DUP.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 6:23 pm

DCComic wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:15 pm
Jesus - commentators are calling this the beginning of a nationwide attack on Roe.
That began years ago.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by strife » Wed May 15, 2019 6:26 pm

Mike Hunt wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:23 pm
DCComic wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:15 pm
Jesus - commentators are calling this the beginning of a nationwide attack on Roe.
That began years ago.
It began the moment the decision came down, in 1973.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 6:27 pm

As I said, it looks like a net gain for Dems nationwide. I hope the SCOTUS decides this before the next election.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 6:58 pm

As long as you have the electoral college, a net gain for Dems nationwide means fuck all.

I am genuinely astonished that, running the numbers, this is the hill you’re prepared to surrender on. What a fucking weakling.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 7:04 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:58 pm
As long as you have the electoral college, a net gain for Dems nationwide means fuck all.

I am genuinely astonished that, running the numbers, this is the hill you’re prepared to surrender on. What a fucking weakling.
Sure, it does. The majority of the population in many swing states feels abortion should be legal: Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin.

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-land ... /by/state/
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by VinnyD » Wed May 15, 2019 7:22 pm

strife wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:26 pm
Mike Hunt wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:23 pm
DCComic wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:15 pm
Jesus - commentators are calling this the beginning of a nationwide attack on Roe.
That began years ago.
It began the moment the decision came down, in 1973.
Not really. The leader of the Southern Baptist Convention applauded the decision, for example. It began when Jerry Falwell seiEd on the issue as a winner for the Republican-Christian right, a few years later.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 7:22 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:58 pm
As long as you have the electoral college, a net gain for Dems nationwide means fuck all.
It really is that simple.

But Hillary won the popular vote by 3 millions votes!!! They still don't get it.

If politics is about the competition of ideas, and political parties are the vehicle to express those ideas, I have never seen a group more afraid or uninterested to enter the arena and compete.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 7:26 pm

Repeating the same thing doesn't make it true, Stew version 5,490,117
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 7:41 pm

Fortunately it is true and the best of the American left - AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders - do make the effort to communicate policy to the red states.

They don’t see Alabama try to take rights away from people and say “hey ho, best to let them secede”. Where would be the vision in that?

Alabama and Georgia politicians certainly have a vision. I bet Dems elect Biden because he seems like grandpa who never fought nobody.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 7:46 pm

No, it's not. The Democrats don't need to be competitive at all in Louisiana, Alabama, Oklahoma, Kentucky, etc. to win the presidency. Crap, they don't even need to be on the ballot there. It would be madness to spend time even campaigning there. Instead, they need to win swing states, where, as I have shown above, the majority of the population favors the right to abortions. This can only improve their chances in those swing states. An outright reversal of Roe would only improve those chances more.

Next, please try to read what I actually wrote and respond to that.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by strife » Wed May 15, 2019 7:47 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:41 pm
Fortunately it is true and the best of the American left - AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders - do make the effort to communicate policy to the red states.
If you think any of these politicians are going to get through to the likes of Annotated or Lavite or Lost Soil, you should give up commenting on US politics.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 7:52 pm

I don’t give one shit about getting through to the characters on this small website, but there’s no reason why Alabama couldn’t return Dem senators and governors.

If you don’t even campaign there you’re not a national party and are admitting you don’t have anything to offer people who live there because they’re too [insert pejorative] for you.

But sure, Mike’s strategy of “let them drive a bus over women so women will vote for us” sounds fucking awesome.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 7:57 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:52 pm
I don’t give one shit about getting through to the characters on this small website, but there’s no reason why Alabama couldn’t return Dem senators and governors.
What does that have to do with the Electoral College?
But sure, Mike’s strategy of “let them drive a bus over women so women will vote for us” sounds fucking awesome.
Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions
The GOP has been doing it for years, and it's worked. You don't give me any evidence that it wouldn't, in fact you don't have much of a counter-argument.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 7:58 pm

And Alabama does have Democratic senator.

Maybe, you should just stop talking?
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 8:01 pm

There’s nothing in this world a man could experience that would even come close to the indignity of being legally forced to carry your rapist's baby to term.

But, yeah, let that happen in Alabama and women will vote for you in Michigan. Suuure.

Triangulate this shit and it’s low voter turnout all over again. Conservatives will vote. Liberals, who see you did not step up when American civil rights were threatened, they’ll be like “nah”.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by eric84 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:02 pm

strife wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:47 pm
Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:41 pm
Fortunately it is true and the best of the American left - AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders - do make the effort to communicate policy to the red states.
If you think any of these politicians are going to get through to the likes of Annotated or Lavite or Lost Soil, you should give up commenting on US politics.
Some red states are beginning to turn so it’s worth investing time and money there like Texas, Georgia. Politics doesn’t stay the same forever.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 8:03 pm

Mike Hunt wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:58 pm
And Alabama does have Democratic senator.
I know that. That’s my point. You suggest not even campaigning there. Fool.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by DCComic » Wed May 15, 2019 8:04 pm

Politics shifts with the waverers in the Center, not entrenched idealists. This ruling won’t bring anybody new to the right, but it must lose them some moderate conservatives.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 8:05 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:01 pm
There’s nothing in this world a man could experience that would even come close to the indignity of being legally forced to carry your rapist's baby to term.

But, yeah, let that happen in Alabama and women will vote for you in Michigan. Suuure.

Triangulate this shit and it’s low voter turnout all over again. Conservatives will vote. Liberals, who see you did not step up when American civil rights were threatened, they’ll be like “nah”.
That doesn't make one lick of sense. Define "step up". The way to step up is to vote Dems into the presidency and senate.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by strife » Wed May 15, 2019 8:06 pm

Right. Republicans took the South from Democrats by outflanking them on racism. That's not a strategy I'm willing to pursue.
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 8:09 pm

Mike Hunt wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:46 pm
No, it's not. The Democrats don't need to be competitive at all in Louisiana, Alabama, Oklahoma, Kentucky, etc. to win the presidency. Crap, they don't even need to be on the ballot there. It would be madness to spend time even campaigning there. Instead, they need to win swing states, where, as I have shown above, the majority of the population favors the right to abortions. This can only improve their chances in those swing states. An outright reversal of Roe would only improve those chances more.

Next, please try to read what I actually wrote and respond to that.
You mean like Obama? Winning elections and governing are not the same thing. What was it, something like 30 wingnuts that basically shut Obama down? And wasn't it Obama & the Democrats that stood impotent while Mitch McConnell stole their Supreme Court nominee?

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 8:11 pm

Yet, Obama has two on the SCOTUS.

How do you think they'll vote on Roe?

What are you doing in Louisiana, Higgs, for the "cause"?
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 8:12 pm

And he would have had 3, but . . . .

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 15, 2019 8:16 pm

Exactly Higgs. Infrastructure week, or The Green New Deal - an idea so good every left party in the West is knocking up their own version within
a year - will not happen unless you have state, local government, school boards, the local dog catcher, the whole thing.

That’s what Conservatives did all through the 00s. Got them a distraction in the White Hoose and here they are with the tax cuts and repealing civil rights legislation. Fancy that.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by OnTheBall » Wed May 15, 2019 8:18 pm

strife wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:25 am
OnTheBall wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:55 am
DCComic wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:46 am


A baby girl is born carrying the eggs for its lifetime - all the babies it might ever have are already begun. They are living cells, they have human DNA.
It doesn't mean that it is a human life
Do you still claim to be a liberal, OneBall?

I've never claimed to be a "liberal", whatever it is supposed to mean nowadays.
guruwil wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:26 am

It’s a straw man, we are discussing the fact that a law controlling what a woman can do with her own body and to determine her own future was made by a group of 100% men. That is outrageous. It’s Saudi Arabia level outrageous.
We made a huge mistake. How do we know these people identify as "men"? I've been told many times on this board that gender is a spectrum/fluid/blah/blah, so it is very presumptuous of us to assume these legislators as "men."

As these legislators see it, the law is not about controlling what a woman can do with her own body, but about preserving, and not killing human life, however wrong they may be as to when human life actually begins. Now, I have asked for what the science is as to when human life actually begins, but no one can provide it.
DCComic wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:29 am

Can you prove that it doesn't? I don't know the science behind it all, and I am not saying that life begins at conception, but I genuinely want to know, when does it?
A baby girl is born carrying the eggs for its lifetime - all the babies it might ever have are already begun. They are living cells, they have human DNA.
[/quote]

It doesn't mean that it is a human life
[/quote]

It's human and it's life. Beyond that is philosophy, not science.
[/quote]

I am not arguing one way or another, I am merely asking for information. but you seem to be taking a position here, would you like to expand on it?

guruwil wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:30 am
The very theoretical question of when life begins is just a distraction. Life is about consciousness and having something to lose. For me until a fetus is viable outside the womb it has no “life” of value to anyone, itself or anyone else. In that situation then I am happy to hand that decision to the conscious entity that carries it.
There is a contradiction here. Studies show a fetus has consciousness at around 6 months. However only 20-35% of babies born at this time of gestation survive. A baby can start kicking at 16 weeks, go tell the expectant mum that this fetus has "no life of value to anyone..." THAT is barbaric.
VinnyD wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:43 pm
OnTheBall wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:08 am
guruwil wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:02 am
Notice something about this group of Alabama legislators responsible for this.

09DBB267-788E-4CD1-A4E2-7AF8DFF95160.jpeg
Why is the gender of the legislators even relevant? This is a question of science: "When does human life begin?" It is at that point that abortion should be illegal
That is not a question of science. It's a question of values. "At what point, if any, should we treat a fetus as a person, and therefore capable of being a murder victim?" I note that this law does not do that. If it did, the doctor, the woman having the abortion, and anyone knowingly helping to pay for it would all be subject to the death penalty in Alabama, and nurses and receptionists etc would be facing life without parole.
I agree! However, it is a question of science first ("when does human life actually begin?") and then values ("how much do we value this human life?").

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 8:18 pm

Certainly, but that doesn't really strengthen your position. One guaranteed way to help overturn Roe is to vote for a Republican president. I don't think that goes without notice for pro-choice voters in swing states.

You're conflating two different things. Yes, the Dems should try to have a broader geographic base through more of a ground game. On the other hand, it would be plain idiotic to waste resources in 2020 in places you know you aren't going to win. Hillary made that mistake in 2016.

What are you doing in Louisiana, Higgs, for the "cause"?
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Mike Hunt » Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 pm

Chi_Rup wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:16 pm
Exactly Higgs. Infrastructure week, or The Green New Deal - an idea so good every left party in the West is knocking up their own version within
a year - will not happen unless you have state, local government, school boards, the local dog catcher, the whole thing.

That’s what Conservatives did all through the 00s. Got them a distraction in the White Hoose and here they are with the tax cuts and repealing civil rights legislation. Fancy that.
I don't really give a fuck about the Green New Deal.

If that's what you meant, why did you bring up the Electoral College?
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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by strife » Wed May 15, 2019 8:26 pm

OnTheBall wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:18 pm

I've never claimed to be a "liberal", whatever it is supposed to mean nowadays.
My mistake. You described yourself as "someone who has been left leaning all his life", rather than 'liberal.' Yeah, a left-leaning type who gushes over fatuous right-wing lightweights like Ben Shapiro, is viscerally opposed to feminism, and recoils at the thought of treating gays and transsexuals like human beings.
I am Stalking you.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 8:32 pm

I assume he mentioned the electoral college to point out the one of many checks & balances built into our system that should pressure political parties to compete across the board with a broader focus. It is why Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million votes!!! is meaningless.

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Re: Alabama voting to ban almost all abortions

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 15, 2019 8:35 pm

Mike Hunt wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:11 pm
Yet, Obama has two on the SCOTUS.

How do you think they'll vote on Roe?

What are you doing in Louisiana, Higgs, for the "cause"?
I don't know how they will vote, but I know for certainty how Merrick Garland will vote. He wont.

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