How are we going to get back from all the lying?

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Flora
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How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Flora » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:50 am

Just how?

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:52 am

lamposts, rope, the liars, hang em from..
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by temporaryhandle2 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:13 am

We don't get back. We wouldn't be where we all are now if it wasn't for the lying.

I can't see there being a reset until we work out how to deal with the spread of lies through social media and opinion journalism in the mainstream media. And I don't think that will happen until we have experienced, and thrown off, populist dictatorships in most Western liberal democracies.

I hope I am wrong.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Flora » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:19 am

I agree with you, unfortunately. There will be another war.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Iolar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:39 am

I can envisage civil unrest in countries like the UK and US - countries in which equality of opportunity simply doesn't exist. Brexit and Trumpism are merely distractions in these countries where poverty is transgenerational - panem et circenses.
I like big quotes and I cannot lie

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm

Flora is in full stage meltdown.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:35 pm

instead of the idea of simply hanging the guilty lying eliteists from lampposts she prefers the idea of sending the working class masses to yet another unnecessary war, a war from which the elitists will, yet again and as usual, no doubt profiteer, thats fucked up..

really fucked up..
Last edited by dBrother on Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by CatScanMan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:37 pm

I think people have assumed politicians are lying constantly for about a million years now. Not an issue.

All Brexit means is a faster and different curve into undeveloped status for the UK. I mean it's pretty much there already in lots of places.

We should probably try and become a real and competent nation like say Israel or South Korea. Unlikely.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:41 pm

CatScanMan wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:37 pm

We should probably try and become a real and competent nation like say Israel
northern ireland can be your gaza strip..

wales your westbank..

and scotland your golan heights.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Iolar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:43 pm

If Northern Ireland can join the republic, I don't see why Scotland couldn't.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by CatScanMan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm

dBrother wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:35 pm
instead of the idea of simply hanging the guilty lying eliteists from lampposts she prefers the idea of sending the working class masses to yet another unnecessary war, a war from which the elitists will, yet again and as usual, no doubt profiteer, thats fucked up..

really fucked up..
Our Tory mong of a defence secretary has been talking some crap about how Brext will make our military stronger and that we should we be more assertive militarily. I think the problem hasn't been our lack of assertiveness more lack of intelligence. He was also babbling about 'drone swarms' and how he thinks we can buy them off the shelf for a few million. Some salesman has got to him.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:50 pm

CatScanMan wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
dBrother wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:35 pm
instead of the idea of simply hanging the guilty lying eliteists from lampposts she prefers the idea of sending the working class masses to yet another unnecessary war, a war from which the elitists will, yet again and as usual, no doubt profiteer, thats fucked up..

really fucked up..
Our Tory mong of a defence secretary has been talking some crap about how Brext will make our military stronger and that we should we be more assertive militarily. I think the problem hasn't been our lack of assertiveness more lack of intelligence. He was also babbling about 'drone swarms' and how he thinks we can buy them off the shelf for a few million. Some salesman has got to him.
hang the cunt from a lamp post while you still can, the terminator is as real as was big brother back in 1948, like you know that came to be, as you walk through the streets observed and identified by a dozen cameras whilst voluntarily carrying that personal tracking device, that, you paid for, in your pocket, once these elitist cunts get their hands on the A.I drone swarms the common people will be done for, for 1000 years, the time for a popular uprisiing and overthrowing these cunts, and hanging 'em from lamp posts, is now.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Zamuel » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:50 pm

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
Flora is in full stage meltdown.

I think she asks a relevant question. I don't see the American populace as ready to accept anyone as a truth-sayer. Nothing is sacred anymore, not even football. Finding a goal to unite us and a disciplined leader isn't something that can happen overnight. I'm of the mind that inspiring the American people is going to require an inspired individual. I'm not seeing them emerging from the herd yet.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 pm

@ CSM arlene got to you eh?

(you know what you wrote..)
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by CatScanMan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:59 pm

No idea who Arlene is. Just decided not to insult the Irish.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by CatScanMan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:59 pm

I mean, what's the point.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by CatScanMan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:06 pm

dBrother wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:41 pm
CatScanMan wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:37 pm

We should probably try and become a real and competent nation like say Israel
northern ireland can be your gaza strip..

wales your westbank..

and scotland your golan heights.
I didn't really mean it like that, I meant a country that actually operates as country not a company and that looks after its own interests.

It's the impossible dream I know.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:09 pm

Zamuel wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:50 pm
Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
Flora is in full stage meltdown.

I think she asks a relevant question. I don't see the American populace as ready to accept anyone as a truth-sayer. Nothing is sacred anymore, not even football. Finding a goal to unite us and a disciplined leader isn't something that can happen overnight. I'm of the mind that inspiring the American people is going to require an inspired individual. I'm not seeing them emerging from the herd yet.
You think this OP was inspired by Trump?

cute

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm

CatScanMan wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:06 pm
dBrother wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:41 pm
CatScanMan wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:37 pm

We should probably try and become a real and competent nation like say Israel
northern ireland can be your gaza strip..

wales your westbank..

and scotland your golan heights.
I didn't really mean it like that, I meant a country that actually operates as country not a company and that looks after its own interests.

It's the impossible dream I know.
yah, israel is as good of an example as any. so was 1930's germany in a similar way. they both look/ looked after their own, I mean you were fucked if you weren't aryan/jewish, but if you were of the chosen people you were looked after in their societies.

no where is perfect though, maybe norway.

maybe NZ.

but anyhow, I agree with you, WTF is the Tory mong on about wanting a swarm of drones to assert british superiority with, this is scary shit, who's really gunna invade you there in the far west of europe anyways, the most civilized landmass on earth, bar for Antarctica?

wouldn't the money currently spent, or wasted, on unnecessary warfare be better off spent on health and education?, cant people just get along anyway?

we are all, in the end, made of the same atomic fragments of long ago exploded stars as everyone else.

basically we are all one in the same, fighting with each other is merely fighting with ourselves.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by CatScanMan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:12 pm

Maybe we're whoring our military out to the US for some future trade deal or highlighting it for the EU for the current shambles?

Either way it's hard to think of a country that's been more assertive than the UK militarily. I mean not just the failures of the last 20 years but say the last 500.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by snowgirl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:28 pm

We've always been lied to.They used to try to hide the lies but now they just don't care, that's the difference.

Dbrother is clearly ready to start the revolution with some good old fashioned hangings. Who's with him?
Our problem is civil obedience. -Howard Zinn

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:36 pm

out with the old and in with the new comrade snowgirl..

Death to the fascist insects that prey upon the lives of the proletariat, I reckon..

and shoot their running dogs too, while at it..



nah but in all seriousness, and I mean this, treason is, for good reason, traditionally a capital offence, if it turns out boris, farage, any others, were acting as agents of a foriegn power (coughrussiacough) during the brexit referendum campaign then this is indeed high treason, try them, convict them in a court of the peoples, then let the public know justice has been served, hang the fuckers from the lamp posts.

extend this, any politician proven to be acting against the better interests of their country is thus forth proven to be treasonous, yes and again, hang the fuckers, hang em in the town square, hang em high..

you want better government?, make these self interested greedy cunts accountable.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by snowgirl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:55 pm

Why are you pontificating about it to us? Take action yourself if this is what you believe.

Me, I'm in a terrible headspace of feeling absolutely cynical and hopeless. Twas ever thus and those who should be held accountable almost never are. All those people you mentioned will die comfortably in their plush beds and never know a day of want for the rest of time on this planet. No wonder the masses used to believe in heaven and hell. It's hard to get through life believing the criminally corrupt don't get what's coming to them at some point.
Our problem is civil obedience. -Howard Zinn

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:59 pm

snowgirl wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:55 pm
Why are you pontificating about it to us? Take action yourself if this is what you believe.
ummm because this is a political inernet forum to exchange political ideas with each other while PUIing on..

Me, I'm in a terrible headspace of feeling absolutely cynical and hopeless. Twas ever thus and those who should be held accountable almost never are. All those people you mentioned will die comfortably in their plush beds and never know a day of want for the rest of time on this planet. No wonder the masses used to believe in heaven and hell. It's hard to get through life believing the criminally corrupt don't get what's coming to them at some point.
#metoo

All those people you mentioned will die comfortably in their plush beds and never know a day of want for the rest of time on this planet.
just to re-iterate my position on this..
lamp posts, rope,, hang the fuckers...

all the cops in london can't hold back a half million strong crowd storming their mansions intent on seeking justice for the treason they have committed, if the downtrodden oppressed masses ever did choose to unite, rise up, and take action that is.. but true , it'll probably never happen..

never forget the eventual fate of ceaușescu either, the down trodden peasants got him in the end, so bad things do occasionally happen to bad politicians..
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by snowgirl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:17 pm

dBrother wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:59 pm


never forget the eventual fate of ceaușescu either, the down trodden peasants got him in the end, so bad things do occasionally happen to bad politicians..
Almost never.
Our problem is civil obedience. -Howard Zinn

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Flora » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:18 pm

I don't want a war you twat, I just think it's not an unlikely prospect.

It's an odd one when the very thing that would have helped inform the population, and reduce the validity of lies, as made them more common. Made them bigger.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by dBrother » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:25 pm

i'm just saying you ignore my calls to hang these treasonous fuckers but yet seem to assume that having a war is a more normalised reasonable course of action.

why?

why is it so unreasonable to suggest executing a few at the top for their treasonous wrongdoings but it's simply expected to wage wars killing and maiming thousands of people who didn't really do anything to bring this on as a normal course of events..?

the russians had the right idea in 1917, murder an entitled aristocrat, and entire family, that was leading his peasant subjects into a brutal unnecessary war, or , like, just stand by and do nothing while the peasants are sent off to the west as cannon fodder over a family dispute among the aristocracy that didn't really concern them at all .
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by harry_flashman » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:35 pm

The lies of Tony Blair or the lies of Nick Clegg?
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by VinnyD » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:35 pm

What does "get back from all the lying" mean?

Suppose we got back from all the lying. How would we know?

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by vanceen » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:58 pm

Flora wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:18 pm
I don't want a war you twat, I just think it's not an unlikely prospect.

It's an odd one when the very thing that would have helped inform the population, and reduce the validity of lies, as made them more common. Made them bigger.
Why do you think a war is not unlikly? Who would be the antagonists?

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by snowgirl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:04 pm

dBrother wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:25 pm
i'm just saying you ignore my calls to hang these treasonous fuckers but yet seem to assume that having a war is a more normalised reasonable course of action.

why?

why is it so unreasonable to suggest executing a few at the top for their treasonous wrongdoings but it's simply expected to wage wars killing and maiming thousands of people who didn't really do anything to bring this on as a normal course of events..?

the russians had the right idea in 1917, murder an entitled aristocrat, and entire family, that was leading his peasant subjects into a brutal unnecessary war, or , like, just stand by and do nothing while the peasants are sent off to the west as cannon fodder over a family dispute among the aristocracy that didn't really concern them at all .
Wtf do you mean "ignore your calls"? Are you seriously expected Flora to say, That's a great idea, dbro, I'm off to get some rope! You're suggesting extrajudicial hanging, she's suggesting a war is more likely, not "normalized" or "reasonable".

"ummm because this is a political inernet forum to exchange political ideas with each other while PUIing on..." - Dbrother
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:40 pm

Lying in Politics.

Whatever next.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Zamuel » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:42 pm

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:09 pm
Zamuel wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:50 pm
Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
Flora is in full stage meltdown.

I think she asks a relevant question. I don't see the American populace as ready to accept anyone as a truth-sayer. Nothing is sacred anymore, not even football. Finding a goal to unite us and a disciplined leader isn't something that can happen overnight. I'm of the mind that inspiring the American people is going to require an inspired individual. I'm not seeing them emerging from the herd yet.
You think this OP was inspired by Trump?
No, I think it has a wide application, I'm an American and so I see it in relation to Bush / Trump more than to others, but obviously it's a much broader, problem, probably world wide (china being a possible exception?) Partially it's been caused by the massive increase in information density in the last 50 years and the exploitation of mass media as a means of deception.

You're a good example of the extreme -stewpudity- it's engendered . . . :roll:
Flora wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:18 pm
I don't want a war you twat, I just think it's not an unlikely prospect.

It's an odd one when the very thing that would have helped inform the population, and reduce the validity of lies, as made them more common. Made them bigger.
War does have a cleansing effect and sort of reboots reality when it's over.
Last edited by Zamuel on Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:45 pm

I feel safer that we won't be at war with Trump in charge.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Homerj » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:53 pm

Simple...placate the masses.... edibles, Netflix and guaranteed supplemental income.
I love how the usual suspect love to blame the rich when lets be honest AI is much more a disrupter than the Jeff Bezo's of the world.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Zamuel » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:57 pm

Stephen_Dedalus wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:45 pm
I feel safer that we won't be at war with Trump in charge.
Makes me think of the old "Charles in Charge" sitcom . . . That's about how much Trump is in charge.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Shavenhead » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:01 pm

When is this Brexit shit like, actually going to happen?

After all the hype, the suspense is killing me.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Stephen_Dedalus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:12 pm

You've hyped up yourselves into a frenzy, to be fair.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Vodd » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:15 pm

Shut down the internet. It's the only way to regain civility and stop empowering idiots.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Higgs Bossom » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:26 pm


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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by simon_in_exile » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:28 pm

Vodd wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:15 pm
Shut down the internet. It's the only way to regain civility and stop empowering idiots.
Funnily enough, that’s Russia’s plan de jour (at least temporarily):
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47198426
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by CatScanMan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:28 pm

all the cops in london can't hold back a half million strong crowd storming their mansions intent on seeking justice for the treason they have committed, if the downtrodden oppressed masses ever did choose to unite, rise up, and take action that is.. but true , it'll probably never happen..
Or they could just vote for what they want. It's almost like we have a system that allows people a say.

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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by simon_in_exile » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:35 pm

Iolar wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:39 am
I can envisage civil unrest in countries like the UK and US - countries in which equality of opportunity simply doesn't exist. Brexit and Trumpism are merely distractions in these countries where poverty is transgenerational - panem et circenses.
Before throwing stones from your glass house, let’s remember that the GINI coefficient for the UK is pretty-much the same as for Ireland. And that’s despite Ireland’s progressive tax system - to quote an Irish source: “Ireland is the most 'progressive' because we start off as the most unequal.”

None of that changes our shared view that the UK has been undergoing a nation-scale implosion during the last 10+ years, of course.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by Iolar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:57 pm

A four year-old report using figures from a period when Ireland's unemployment rate exceeded 15%. Hmmm ... ok. I've lived and worked in all three countries - Ireland has more equality of opportunity than the other two. Where you went to school in Ireland doesn't matter, nor does who your dad is. You have a class of people who are born to govern you in the UK, which you unwaveringly accept - Ireland doesn't have that. A hospital orderly can be PM here - he'll always be a hospital orderly in the UK.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by equus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:20 pm

While I'm not proposing hanging them from the lamp posts, dBro has a kind of point. We aren't coming back from here until they think that the risk of all the lies at this scale out weigh the benefits. Given how outrageously successful lying has been for people like Johnson or Trump, the risks would need to be pretty catastrophic for politicians at personal level before the culture changes.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by desertstorm » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:28 pm

The answer about getting back from the lying is addressing the causes that enable the blatant display and acceptance of lying by public figures and politicians, the acceptance of lying is simply just the symptom of the polarization in the society. One doesn't need to be smart to understand that.

'I believe in the politicians who hate the same people I hate.'

UK seems further harmed by a political class that is even more distance from the 'common people' than other countries, which all have the same problem but often in less degree, and a political system that is stagnated, non functioning and encourages the polarization (which in turn undermine the trust in politics in a positive feedback loop).

Example: there was 48% of people in UK who voted Remain but there is not one single major political party which represents their view.

The solution? No one seems to be able to come up with an effective solution yet to fight polarization, caused by the significant part of the society feeling threaten on their self perceived (traditional) identity.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 pm

desertstorm wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:28 pm
Example: there was 48% of people in UK who voted Remain but there is not one single major political party which present their view.
Neither is there one that present the leave view.
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simon_in_exile
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by simon_in_exile » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Iolar wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:57 pm
A four year-old report using figures from a period when Ireland's unemployment rate exceeded 15%. Hmmm ... ok. I've lived and worked in all three countries - Ireland has more equality of opportunity than the other two. Where you went to school in Ireland doesn't matter, nor does who your dad is. You have a class of people who are born to govern you in the UK, which you unwaveringly accept - Ireland doesn't have that. A hospital orderly can be PM here - he'll always be a hospital orderly in the UK.
Yes and no. There’s an Oxbridge stranglehold on parts of the U.K. parliament, the past decade has been embarrassing, but someone like John Major left school at 16 with a few O-Levels and ended up in charge of the country (in the Tory Party, even).
And four years ago is nothing. i didn’t realise Ireland’s unemployment rate was so high so recently (not that it has a huge impact on the Gini coefficient) - what made it improve so quickly?
As for equality of opportunity... according to OECD data, there’s less generational mobility for men in the UK than in Ireland, but British women are more mobile than their Irish counterparts.
My points stand.
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by desertstorm » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:35 pm

DCComic wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 pm
desertstorm wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:28 pm
Example: there was 48% of people in UK who voted Remain but there is not one single major political party which present their view.
Neither is there one that present the leave view.
You share my view then. How can a functioning democratic political system act like this?

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DCComic
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Re: How are we going to get back from all the lying?

Post by DCComic » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:36 pm

desertstorm wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:35 pm
DCComic wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 pm
desertstorm wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:28 pm
Example: there was 48% of people in UK who voted Remain but there is not one single major political party which present their view.
Neither is there one that present the leave view.
You share my view then. How can a functioning democratic political system act like this?
What would you suggest instead? There can't be a party to champion every point of view for each issue.
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פולאר הוא שקרן - I want my fucking money back - The only reason you continue to participate is because you hate me personally - It would be delightful to cl yo a cunt to your face.

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