Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

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Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Lavite » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:04 pm

We have four proposed amendments to the Alabama Constitution that will be voted on statewide November 6th. Proposed changes 1 and 2 will get immediately challenged in federal court if passed. The other two are good to go if they pass.

Amendment 1 – Religious Freedom

The measure would add a new amendment to the Alabama Constitution. The following text would have been added:

Every person shall be at liberty to worship God according to the dictates of his or her own conscience. No person shall be compelled to attend, or, against his or her consent, to contribute to the erection or support of any place of religious worship, or to pay tithes, taxes, or other rates for the support of any minister of the gospel. Property belonging to the state may be used to display the Ten Commandments, and the right of a public school and public body to display the Ten Commandments on property owned or administrated by a public school or public body in this state is not restrained or abridged. The civil and political rights, privileges, and capacities of no person shall be diminished or enlarged on account of his or her religious belief. No public funds may be expended in defense of the constitutionality of this amendment.

The Ten Commandments shall be displayed in a manner that complies with constitutional requirements, including, but not limited to, being intermingled with historical or educational items, or both, in a larger display within or on property owned or administrated by a public school.

Amendment 2 – Sanctity of Life

Amendment 2 would add a new amendment to the Alabama Constitution. The following text would be added:

(a) This state acknowledges, declares, and affirms that it is the public policy of this state to recognize and support the sanctity of unborn life and the rights of unborn children, including the right to life.

(b) This state further acknowledges, declares, and affirms that it is the public policy of this state to ensure the protection of the rights of the unborn child in all manners and measures lawful and appropriate.
(c) Nothing in this constitution secures or protects a right to abortion or requires the funding of an abortion

Amendment 3 – University of Alabama Board of Trusties

The measure would amend Section 264 of Article XIV of the Alabama Constitution. The following underlined text would be added, and struck-through text would be deleted:

The state university shall be under the management and control of a board of trustees, which shall consist of two members from each congressional district in the state as constituted on January 1, 2018, an additional member from the congressional district which includes the site of the first campus of the university, the superintendent of education, and the governor, who shall be ex officio president of the board.

The members of the board of trustees as now constituted shall hold office until their respective terms expire under existing law, and until their successors shall be elected and confirmed as hereinafter required. The additional trustees provided for by this amendment shall be elected by the existing members of the board, and confirmed by the senate in the manner provided below, for initial terms of not more than six years established by the board so that one term shall expire each three years in each congressional district. Successors to the terms of the existing and additional trustees shall hold office for a term of six years, and shall not serve more than three consecutive full six-year terms on the board; provided however that a trustee shall retire from the board and vacate office at the annual meeting of the board following that trustee's seventieth birthday. Election of additional and successor trustees or of trustees to fill any vacancy created by the expiration of a term or by the death or resignation of any member or from any other cause shall be by the remaining members of the board by secret ballot; provided, that any trustee so elected shall hold office from the date of election until confirmation or rejection by the senate, and, if confirmed, until the expiration of the term for which elected, and until a successor is elected. At every meeting of the legislature the superintendent of education shall certify to the senate the names of all who shall have been so elected since the last session of the legislature, and the senate shall confirm or reject them, as it shall determine is for the best interest of the university. If it rejects the names of any members, it shall thereupon elect trustees in the stead of those rejected. No trustee shall receive any pay or emolument other than his actual expenses incurred in the discharge of his duties as such. Upon the vacation of office by a trustee, the board, if it desires, may bestow upon a trustee the honorary title of trustee emeritus, but such status shall confer no responsibilities, duties, rights, or privileges as such.[4]

Amendment 4 – Appointment of Senators and Representatives between Election Cycles

Amendment 4 would repeal and replace section 46 of Article IV of the state constitution:

Section 46: (a) Senators and representatives shall be elected by the qualified electors on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November unless the Legislature shall change the time of holding elections and in every fourth year thereafter. The terms of office of the senators and representatives shall commence on the day after the general election at which they are elected, and expire on the day after the general election held in the fourth year after their election, except as otherwise provided in this Constitution. At the general election in the year nineteen hundred and two all the representatives, together with the senators for the even numbered districts a fourth year thereafter, all the senators and representatives shall be elected.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (c), when a vacancy occurs in either house of the Legislature, the Governor shall issue a writ of election to fill the vacancy for the remainder of the term. However, if the Secretary of State determines that a legally qualified candidate for election to the vacancy is unopposed when the last date for filing certificates of nomination has passed, the election shall not be held. The Secretary of State shall issue a certificate of election to the candidate, the same as if an election had been held, and the certificate shall be accepted by the house in which the vacancy occurred as evidence of the unopposed candidate's right to fill the position created by the vacancy. In the event an election is held, all the costs and expenses incurred thereby shall be paid out of any funds in the State Treasury not otherwise appropriated.

(c) When a vacancy occurs in either house of the Legislature on or after October quadrennium, the seat shall remain vacant until a successor is elected at the next succeeding general election.

https://ballotpedia.org/Alabama_2018_ballot_measures
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by polardude1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:13 pm

Pedophile Moore supporter
(a) This state acknowledges, declares, and affirms that it is the public policy of this state to recognize and support the sanctity of unborn life and the rights of unborn children, including the right to life.
Alabama cannot protect children born into poverty
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by BulletPark » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:14 pm

Sounds great!

But do my tax bucks have to pay for the shower of white trash bastards that will follow in its wake?

Cause if so, please kill the babies after they're born, so they have the right to life but don't cost me money.

You can set them on a city street and then shoot them in the back as they crawl away. That makes it fair.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by birdlite » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:19 pm

1) Why?
2) ~ 25% of all children in Alabama live in poverty. What are the plans to provide for more?
Why are there no provisions for health of the mother?
Why does it not specify that fetuses that have died in the womb may be aborted?
Where are monies coming from for hospitals to extend the lives of those babies born with serious diseases and defects if the parents or insurance companies won't pay?
What provisions will be made so that doctors do not let children dies after birth ("failed to thrive" as they called it pre Roe v.wade)
What are the provisions for caring for children born to parents who don't want them, especially those with severe disabilities and fatal diseases?
What provisions are being made by the state to cover 100% of prenatal care for mothers (or, as Alabama will refer to them, "incubators")

3) Why was this one given more thought than #2

4) same question as #3

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by VinnyD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Lavite, what do you think of them?

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by eric84 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:43 pm

The religious freedom referendum only talks about 10 commandments. What about passages from the Torah? Can you display those on public property in Alabama?
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by vanceen » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:52 pm

eric84 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:43 pm
The religious freedom referendum only talks about 10 commandments. What about passages from the Torah? Can you display those on public property in Alabama?
Eric, I agree with the point you're making. Religious liberty should not be limited to the majority religion, or any religion in particular.

But you do realize that the Ten Commandments is a passage from the Torah, don't you?

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by polardude1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:57 pm

But you do realize that the Ten Commandments is a passage from the Torah, don't you?
Perhaps he might not.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by eric84 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:57 pm

vanceen wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:52 pm
eric84 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:43 pm
The religious freedom referendum only talks about 10 commandments. What about passages from the Torah? Can you display those on public property in Alabama?
Eric, I agree with the point you're making. Religious liberty should not be limited to the majority religion, or any religion in particular.

But you do realize that the Ten Commandments is a passage from the Torah, don't you?
Do you think they were referring to the Torah version?
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by polardude1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:07 pm

What other version is there?

I know the Mel Brooks version had 15..I mean 10 commandments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI1JJZuopig
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by 5waldos » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:08 pm

I demand the Four Noble Truths be given equal space.

Clever putting in the little- no public money can be used to support the constitutionality of this. Assume also the non- constitutionality. Fascinating stuff coming out of the south. And most of the voters would swear that they were absolute supporters of the US and the Constitution. Just not the parts they don’t like so much.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by vanceen » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:10 pm

eric84 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:57 pm
vanceen wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:52 pm
eric84 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:43 pm
The religious freedom referendum only talks about 10 commandments. What about passages from the Torah? Can you display those on public property in Alabama?
Eric, I agree with the point you're making. Religious liberty should not be limited to the majority religion, or any religion in particular.

But you do realize that the Ten Commandments is a passage from the Torah, don't you?
Do you think they were referring to the Torah version?
There are two Torah versions, but let's not be pedantic.

There are only trivial differences between "versions" used by Jews, Catholics, and Protestants, mainly in the way the verses are separated (which is not in the original Hebrew texts anyway). They are all translated from ancient Hebrew texts.

Muslims use the Ten Commandments as well.

Sorry to sidetrack your point, which might have been made better by asking "Can we display passages from the Bhagavad Gita on public building?"

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Vince » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:19 pm

No 1 is insane - all that stuff about freedom is ok and then the weird random paragraphs about state sponsored Ten Commandments
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by eric84 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:22 pm

vanceen wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:10 pm
eric84 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:57 pm
vanceen wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:52 pm


Eric, I agree with the point you're making. Religious liberty should not be limited to the majority religion, or any religion in particular.

But you do realize that the Ten Commandments is a passage from the Torah, don't you?
Do you think they were referring to the Torah version?
There are two Torah versions, but let's not be pedantic.

There are only trivial differences between "versions" used by Jews, Catholics, and Protestants, mainly in the way the verses are separated (which is not in the original Hebrew texts anyway). They are all translated from ancient Hebrew texts.

Muslims use the Ten Commandments as well.

Sorry to sidetrack your point, which might have been made better by asking "Can we display passages from the Bhagavad Gita on public building?"
Thanks for getting right to heart of the issue.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by northern_goddess » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:25 pm

So Amendment #1 only refers to religions that have a God? Further to that, if schools display the 10 Commandments but "no person shall be compelled to attend" does that mean no one has to go to school?

This part has to be the best as a big Fuck You to future governments.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by VinnyD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:28 pm

Eric, aren't you grateful to vanceen for letting you know that the Ten Commandments is a passage (or either of two passages) from the Torah?

I like learning things, myself. I think knowledge is better than ignorance.

vanceen, the differences may seem minor to you, but I bet if some group puts up a plaque with the Catholic-Lutheran numbering or the Jewish numbering, there will be loud protests.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Lavite wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:04 pm
The Ten Commandments shall be displayed in a manner that complies with constitutional requirements
There is no way to post the Ten Commandments in public schools that would "comply with constitutional requirements". It would be a direct violation of the constitution and the courts have ruled as such. Keep this shit out of my face.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by eric84 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:39 pm

I believe it was Judge Roy Moore who had the 10 commandments (yes, vanceen, the bible version) at his courthouse who then refused to take it down when it was inevitably ruled as unconstitutional. Maybe Lavite can confirm that.

Anyways, I'm glad the most burning issues in Alabama remain religion and abortion.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by VinnyD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:25 pm

I don't know what you mean by "the bible version", eric. The Roy Moore version was abridged, as they almost are except in Bibles.

lavite, what do you think of these? How did they get on the ballot? Did the legislature pass them or was it citizen intiative? Des a simple majority of whoever votes mean they are added to the constitution?

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by eric84 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:27 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:25 pm
I don't know what you mean by "the bible version", eric.
I'm actually sure you knew what I meant.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by VinnyD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:45 pm

If you meant either version as it occurs in the bible, then you are wrong.

I am unaware of any version of the Ten Commandments that does not claim to be biblical in origin, although most are abridged.

So I really don't know what you meant, no.

But you are grateful to vanceen, aren't you? Don't you think knowledge is better than ignorance?

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:50 pm

I'm batting right about .500 on the commandments, which seems pretty decent to me. How are the rest of you doing?...
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by VinnyD » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:51 pm

I know them.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by sodelicious » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:02 pm

Lavite, to pass is it just 50%+1, or to pass do they need to meet a higher threshold?
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Godjira » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:12 pm

Don’t those silly crackers have anything else better to do? They’re going to hell in a hand basket, and there going to stick the 10 Commandments on it.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Lavite » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:31 pm

sodelicious wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:02 pm
Lavite, to pass is it just 50%+1, or to pass do they need to meet a higher threshold?
A 3/5ths vote to put the proposal on the ballot is required in both the Alabama senate and house. A simple majority of voters is all that is required to amend the constitution after that. A second way exists and that is to call for a constitutional convention and start over.

Amendments to the Alabama constitution that only impact one county are only on those county ballots. And their are always one or two of those on the ballot.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Lavite » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:36 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:41 pm
Lavite, what do you think of them?
Amendment 1 - yes
Amendment 2 - yes
Amendment 3 - no
Amendment 4 - no
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by cuchulainn » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:56 pm

Meanwhile most Alabama residents are mired in poverty.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Godjira » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:55 pm

Lavite wrote:
VinnyD wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:41 pm
Lavite, what do you think of them?
Amendment 1 - yes
Amendment 2 - yes
Amendment 3 - no
Amendment 4 - no
If Lavite’s flight from this board post-Moore doesn’t prove he’s a complete troll, this does.

He’s not to be taken seriously.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Lavite » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:59 pm

cuchulainn wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:56 pm
Meanwhile most Alabama residents are mired in poverty.
That is incorrect. Not that you have ever demonstrated a passion for accuracy.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by eric84 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:02 pm

It has one of the highest poverty rates in Amerikkka. Maybe legislators should try to fix that rather worrying about the 10 commandments.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by ASQ » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:11 pm

are they going to make a big beautiful plaque saying thou shalt not kill outside the execution room

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by eric84 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:19 pm

No fighting in the war room!
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by VinnyD » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:47 pm

Lavite, should the state punish people who violate the Sabbath or worship idols? If not, why should the state post edicts forbidding those behaviors?

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by northern_goddess » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:49 pm

Lavite, you still haven't addressed my questions about #1.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Lavite » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:42 am

northern_goddess wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:49 pm
Lavite, you still haven't addressed my questions about #1.
Public school attendance is not even a factor. That part of the amendment had to do about forcing people to attend religious services against their will.
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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by coffeeguy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:31 pm

First two are exactly what to expect from the American taliban. What a joke.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by birdlite » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Has Alabama figured out how much #1 is going to cost them in defending the 10 commandments in schools and public grounds.

Is Roy Moore worth all the money that could be spent on real education and poverty programs?



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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by VinnyD » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:57 pm

birdlite wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:34 pm
Has Alabama figured out how much #1 is going to cost them in defending the 10 commandments in schools and public grounds.
They thought about that. Last sentence: "No public funds may be expended in defense of the constitutionality of this amendment."

Not sure why it is worth adopting but not worth defending.

There may be some private group willing to waste its money defending it when it is inevitably challenged (assuming somebody does put the 10 Commandments somewhere); if not it loses by default.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by birdlite » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:57 pm


VinnyD wrote:
birdlite wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:34 pm
Has Alabama figured out how much #1 is going to cost them in defending the 10 commandments in schools and public grounds.
They thought about that. Last sentence: "No public funds may be expended in defense of the constitutionality of this amendment."

Not sure why it is worth adopting but not worth defending.

There may be some private group willing to waste its money defending it when it is inevitably challenged (assuming somebody does put the 10 Commandments somewhere); if not it loses by default.
Thanks. I missed that.
What a silly waste of time. I hope that Satanists challenge it first.

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Re: Proposed Amendments to Alabama Constitution

Post by Vince » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:44 pm

Imagine writing a constitution, the sole purpose of which is to troll people. How shit is that?
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