Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Main Course
thegreenlantern
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 1558
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by thegreenlantern » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:06 am

By the logic of the CIS report, we should kick out children when they are born. They're net drains for at least 18 years.

User avatar
Scrubb
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 23506
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:08 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Scrubb » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:24 am

VinnyD wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:13 pm
The potential downside is that the number might not always be small, and it is harder to change a long-established policy.
I can't really imagine a scenario where the number of women trying to get asylum in a different country due to domestic abuse would skyrocket, or even become substantial.
Boinkity_Boink isn't much of an idiot

User avatar
VinnyD
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 62797
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by VinnyD » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:42 am

I can. But not if, as Citizen Baba says, there is a stiff burden of proof to meet in order to succeed in an asylum claim.

I was envisioning word getting out that the way to get permission to stay in the US was just to allege domestic abuse. I am not sure what kind of evidence is sufficient to prove your case, but if there is a sufficiently high bar, then that alleviates any concerns I have. (I recognize that that means that some people.those who actually are subject to abuse but who can't prove it, will be unable to get asylum. I don't see how we avoid that outcome.)

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:00 pm

LS says the data we presented is politically biased and than goes on, apparently without irony, to give us a study by the Center for Immigration Studies.

The Feds had a study that showed that refugees contribute a net $63 billion in their first 10 years (obviously, it would be more after that). Of course, Trump didn't like the answer, and killed it.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:07 pm

thegreenlantern wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:05 am
I've written a bit of peer reviewed research on refugees, and the data gathering involved living in a camp on the Somali-Kenya border and working with the US NGOs that helped resettle them here. Early assistance is common, but the vast majority of these people are employed within two years.
We had the vast majority fully employed in four or five months. For various reasons, it would have been tough for them to be employed any earlier. It's particularly fast for more established groups, like the Burmese, who can rely on their networks.

The overriding emphasis in US refugee resettlement is getting them self-sufficient as early as possible. It's established, organized, and proven. In fact, it's been the envy of the world. I've hosted international delegations from Greece, Britain, Ukraine, Japan, and South Korea that want to see how we do it.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:10 pm

VinnyD wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:42 am
I can. But not if, as Citizen Baba says, there is a stiff burden of proof to meet in order to succeed in an asylum claim.

I was envisioning word getting out that the way to get permission to stay in the US was just to allege domestic abuse. I am not sure what kind of evidence is sufficient to prove your case, but if there is a sufficiently high bar, then that alleviates any concerns I have. (I recognize that that means that some people.those who actually are subject to abuse but who can't prove it, will be unable to get asylum. I don't see how we avoid that outcome.)
For political/religious persecution, it needs to be triangulated with news reports and internal USCIS country reports. I'd imagine with DV claims you need pictures, medical reports, and locations and names of police officers you reported the abuse to.

I've seen some DV asylum petitions from Central American women. They are pretty horrific.

User avatar
eric84
Moderator
Posts: 54563
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:31 pm

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by eric84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Lost Soul wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:39 pm
I'm in favor of Mr. Magoo taking aim at Sigh's livelihood of saving the world with other people's money.

Canada is also closing the door to economic refugees being kicked out of the US. HRH Trudeau is as evil as Trump!
Canada does allow women suffering from domestic violence and gang violence in as refugees.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 55834
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Lost Soul » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:57 pm

eric84 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:16 pm
Lost Soul wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:39 pm
I'm in favor of Mr. Magoo taking aim at Sigh's livelihood of saving the world with other people's money.

Canada is also closing the door to economic refugees being kicked out of the US. HRH Trudeau is as evil as Trump!
Canada does allow women suffering from domestic violence and gang violence in as refugees.
Times are a changing. Because two are company, and 200,000,000 is a crowd.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... KCN1IN1CO
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

User avatar
eric84
Moderator
Posts: 54563
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:31 pm

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by eric84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:59 pm

Lost Soul wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:57 pm
eric84 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:16 pm
Lost Soul wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:39 pm
I'm in favor of Mr. Magoo taking aim at Sigh's livelihood of saving the world with other people's money.

Canada is also closing the door to economic refugees being kicked out of the US. HRH Trudeau is as evil as Trump!
Canada does allow women suffering from domestic violence and gang violence in as refugees.
Times are a changing. Because two are company, and 200,000,000 is a crowd.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... KCN1IN1CO
The criteria hasn't changed, ditchdigger.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:00 pm

Where did you get 200,000?

User avatar
eric84
Moderator
Posts: 54563
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:31 pm

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by eric84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Where else, but out of his ass.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:05 pm

I still don't get why he doesn't admit what all of us know: he's firmly alt-right and doesn't want brown people to come here.

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 55834
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Lost Soul » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:59 pm

eric84 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:59 pm
Lost Soul wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:57 pm
eric84 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:16 pm


Canada does allow women suffering from domestic violence and gang violence in as refugees.
Times are a changing. Because two are company, and 200,000,000 is a crowd.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... KCN1IN1CO
The criteria hasn't changed, ditchdigger.
They have. Canada now has people in their consulates in Miami and LA actively telling people to not head north with their bogus asylum claims.
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

Lost Soul
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 55834
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:02 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Lost Soul » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:02 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:00 pm
Where did you get 200,000?
It was an underestimate, Mr. Innumerate. I should have said 2,000,000,000; which is approximately the number of refugees allowed under Maobama rules.
IMPRISON BUSH!

INDICT HILLARY!

"Lost Soul is largely correct"- VinnyD

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:34 pm

Um, not really.

Image

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:57 pm

Here are more up-to-date statistics for asylees only:

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... 16/table16

User avatar
Citizen Baba
Mayor McCheese
Posts: 23284
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:09 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:05 pm
I still don't get why he doesn't admit what all of us know: he's firmly alt-right and doesn't want brown people to come here.

User avatar
Scrubb
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 23506
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:08 am

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by Scrubb » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:57 am

VinnyD wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:42 am
I can. But not if, as Citizen Baba says, there is a stiff burden of proof to meet in order to succeed in an asylum claim.

I was envisioning word getting out that the way to get permission to stay in the US was just to allege domestic abuse.
Ok, I suppose that's a valid possibility. Though as you say, if burden of proof is challenging then it shouldn't be an issue.

And even if it did "get out" that you just had to allege domestic abuse - are there really a lot of single women trying to get to the US? My impression has always been that it's much more often single men or else entire families. I think in general*, women would hesitate a lot more before leaving their families and friends behind and heading off to start a new life in a different country, with or without their kids.

*Thinking of women coming from countries where they don't have legal protection from domestic abuse
Boinkity_Boink isn't much of an idiot

User avatar
eric84
Moderator
Posts: 54563
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:31 pm

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by eric84 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:45 am

Lost Soul wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:59 pm
eric84 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:59 pm
Lost Soul wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:57 pm

Times are a changing. Because two are company, and 200,000,000 is a crowd.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... KCN1IN1CO
The criteria hasn't changed, ditchdigger.
They have. Canada now has people in their consulates in Miami and LA actively telling people to not head north with their bogus asylum claims.
They’re telling them that it’s dangerous to cross and that there’s not guarantee that you’ll stay. Which happens to be true.
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.

User avatar
VinnyD
Stew Ingredient
Posts: 62797
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Sessions: Victims of Gang and Domestic Violence Can't get Asylum

Post by VinnyD » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:45 am

Scrubb, if it were as simple as alleging domestic abuse (we are told it isn't), then I think women might come here alone hoping their partners/husbands could join them once they were settled.

As long as the screening is rigorous, it's not a problem.

Post Reply