Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

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Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:10 am

effective article outlining what brought to us to where we are now

"The undeniable cruelty of the blockade is that it obliterates such [political] nuance. The blockade is premised on the notion that the collective punishment of 2 million Palestinians is permissible, even justified, to reach the political goal, dictated by Israel, of subduing Hamas. Such thinking dehumanizes Palestinians in Gaza: It becomes an unfortunate reality that civilians are terrorized and killed in an effort to break Hamas. It also elides key shifts that have taken place within Hamas itself: Earlier this year, Hamas officially accepted the goal of a Palestinian state alongside Israel and has issued a political document that offers a starting point for engagement."
How Israel’s 10-Year Blockade Brought Gaza to the Brink of Collapse
The crisis in Gaza is not simply a humanitarian tragedy. It’s a moral outrage.
By Tareq Baconi
July 7, 2017

The stories read like dispatches from a nightmare, describing a reality that is almost too extreme to fathom: nearly 2 million people locked inside a land mass the size of Philadelphia, the borders carefully controlled, the movement of goods and humans severely restricted; as much as 72 percent of the population facing food insecurity and 41 percent struggling with unemployment; hospitals forced to rely on generators for life-saving equipment, while supplies of life-saving medicines dwindle to dangerous levels; and looming in the not-far-off distance, as water treatment and desalination plants stop working, the risk that drinking water will run out.

Such is the daily reality of life in the Gaza Strip, the narrow Mediterranean enclave that is home to nearly half of all Palestinians living under Israeli occupation. It is a place where life has long been cruel, where refugees forced out of Israel during the Nakba and families who have lived in Gaza for generations have suffered under dire conditions for nearly 70 years. But in the last decade, it has become a site of stunning misery. Ten years ago this past June, Israel imposed a stringent land, sea, and air blockade on Gaza. With the ready help of President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi’s regime in Egypt, they have restricted most movement to and from the strip and pushed the tiny territory to the brink of collapse. Today some 80 percent of Gaza’s population relies on humanitarian aid to survive. Conditions have become so extreme that the United Nations has stated that by 2020 the Gaza Strip could become uninhabitable.

And now, Palestinians in Gaza face a new crisis. Just last month, President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the Israeli-occupied West Bank decided to stop paying Israel for the electricity it supplies to the Gaza Strip. This prompted Israel to cease supply: Instead of enjoying as many as four to six hours of electricity per day, Palestinians in Gaza would have to get accustomed to only two to three. In late June, Egypt stepped in with a direct shipment of diesel to Gaza, briefly easing the crisis. But, as a heat wave sweeps Gaza, it is not clear how long the arrangement will continue. Human-rights organizations warned that further electricity reduction could cause a “total collapse.”

The only time I was able to enter Gaza was in the summer of 2015, a year after Israel’s last devastating military assault on the strip. Upon leaving the last station of the border crossing, manned by officials of the Islamic Resistance Movement, better known as Hamas, which has ruled Gaza since 2007, scenes of destruction unfolded before my eyes. Apartment blocks that had formed the first line of defense against the Israeli army had essentially been gutted. On the drive south towards Gaza City, whole areas had been razed to the ground. Reconstruction had yet to commence—a result of Israel’s restrictions on the import of building material—so the collapsed buildings had been diligently swept into piles of rubble by the sides of the streets. People lived in the remnants of their homes or within the skeletons of teetering buildings, using colorful cloths where windows once stood.

The scars of war remained frozen in time, not allowed to heal. Yet against this backdrop of post-apocalyptic devastation, quotidian scenes of normalcy endured. I was in Gaza during the month of Ramadan. In the main urban centers in the strip, streets heaved with traffic, and university campuses bustled with students and faculty. During iftar meals, restaurants were packed. My hotel had a beautiful courtyard that looked out onto the Mediterranean where elite families came to break their fast and stay until the early hours of the morning. The piers jutting out of Gaza’s beaches into the sea were filled with teenagers strolling up and down the promenade, enjoying the views of Gaza’s skyline, barely lit and missing several high-rises that had been flattened by Israel.

These signs of life spoke more of resilience than prosperity—and even then, it was a fraught resilience. Parents told me of how their children wet their beds at night. They pointed to bags that had been packed and left by the side of the door, with all their valuables, in case they had to rush out. Remnants of the terror that had been endured—a terror during which 2,251 Palestinians were killed, among them 1,462 civilians and 551 children—intruded into most conversations. Little kids complained to me that they no longer enjoyed playing football at school, because their teams now included older kids from different grades. It took me a few minutes to understand that it was because tens of their schoolmates had vanished under Israel’s bombardment a year prior. Grades had to be merged together.

Mostly, people offered feelings of desperation and claustrophobia, of absolute incomprehension as to how the world still does not know of the misery in Gaza. Or worse, if the world knows, of why it has forgotten them.

In the face of so much misery, the larger context can quickly evaporate, the solutions reduced to emergency food and fuel shipments. Yet viewing Gaza solely as a heart-wrenching humanitarian catastrophe elides the fact that this reality has been carefully engineered. Indeed, three years after the blockade was imposed, it was revealed that the Israeli administration in charge of overseeing the siege considered using caloric measures to weigh how many truckloads of food should be allowed in. The goal was to regulate the import of food down to the exact number of calories needed to avoid starvation, no more.

Architects of this closure claim that they want such isolation to pressure Hamas into submission. The wrinkle in this formulation is that Hamas came to power through democratic elections in 2006 that were deemed fair and transparent by international observers, including former US President Jimmy Carter. Refusing to acknowledge Hamas’s election, however, the United States and Israel intervened and helped precipitate an internecine battle among Palestinian factions that resulted in the political and geographic separation of the Palestinian territories. While the PA consolidated its grip over the West Bank, Hamas settled into its role as a quasi-government within Gaza. With that division, the fragmentation of the Palestinian people under the weight of the Israeli occupation was all but complete.

Many Palestinians, in Gaza and elsewhere, deplore Hamas’s authoritarianism and ideology, from its Islamic social conservatism to its reliance on armed struggle as a mode of resistance. Many others have supported Hamas as an act of protest against Fatah, the PA’s ruling party, which is widely viewed as corrupt and oppressive and has been helmed for years by the monumentally unpopular Mahmoud Abbas. And still others actively support what they believe is Hamas’s right to use armed struggle to resist Israel’s unyielding choke hold on the Palestinian people.

The undeniable cruelty of the blockade is that it obliterates such nuance. The blockade is premised on the notion that the collective punishment of 2 million Palestinians is permissible, even justified, to reach the political goal, dictated by Israel, of subduing Hamas. Such thinking dehumanizes Palestinians in Gaza: It becomes an unfortunate reality that civilians are terrorized and killed in an effort to break Hamas. It also elides key shifts that have taken place within Hamas itself: Earlier this year, Hamas officially accepted the goal of a Palestinian state alongside Israel and has issued a political document that offers a starting point for engagement.

Instead of addressing the internationally sanctioned aspects of many of Hamas’s demands, and those of Palestinians writ large, including the right to Palestinian self-determination, Israel has chosen a military approach focused solely on Hamas’s pacification. Since 2007, Israeli security forces have killed more than 4,000 Palestinians in Gaza. Alongside the slow suffocation inherent in the act of closure, Israel has carried out three major military assaults (in 2014 as well as in 2008–09 and in 2012) against Gaza, and countless raids in between, unleashing the force of the region’s most powerful army—and sole nuclear power—on one of the most densely populated refugee areas in the world.

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Israel has justified these attacks as self-defense against rockets lobbed by Hamas and other factions. However, the evidence shows that Israel has provoked many of these conflagrations. Waging disproportionate retaliation against these largely primitive rockets, Israel has dropped white phosphorous bombs on civilian areas; flattened whole tower blocks with the inhabitants still inside; attacked UN schools that had been turned into refugee shelters; targeted ambulances and hospitals; destroyed the only power generation company in the territory; and generally terrorized an entire population that it has been starving relentlessly for years.

And so, Gaza has been turned in the world’s imagination from a political problem that demands a settlement into a humanitarian disaster. Even the UN unwittingly condones Gaza’s closure when it defines a framework for reconstruction that operates within the limits of what is acceptable by Israel’s blockade. Within the consciousness of Israel’s public, Gaza’s humanity is rarely seen or acknowledged. Israel’s current minister of justice has referred to newborn children in Gaza as snakes that must be quashed.

Crucially, this dehumanization is not new—not a break with traditional policy so much as an amplification of it. Israel has long experimented with ways to control Palestinians in Gaza, a proud center of Palestinian nationalism and source of resistance to Israel’s illegal occupation. In the 1950s, decades before blockading Gaza because it was a “hostile entity” under Hamas, Israeli politicians talked of liquidating Gaza because it was a “fedayeen [guerilla fighter] nest” under the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) that predated Hamas. When Israel “disengaged” from Gaza in 2005, the idea was less about liberation for the people of the strip than about crippling the possibility of a unified Palestinian state—or, as Ariel Sharon’s senior adviser said at the time, ensuring “there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.” Even this current blockade is itself an escalation of systematic “closures”—often lengthy periods during which Israel sealed the border with Gaza—that have been imposed on the strip in one way or the other since 1991, 15 years before Hamas’s election.

Viewed in its proper historical context, then, the blockade, the punishment of all of Gaza for Hamas, becomes a piece in a much larger puzzle, part of a long-standing effort to subdue Palestinians in Gaza and isolate them from the West Bank. This allows Israel to continue managing rather than resolving the conflict—to maintain control over the Palestinian territories without having to assume responsibility for 2 million additional Palestinians, something that would threaten its Jewish majority.

The most immediate crisis in Gaza was averted when Egypt stepped in with fuel shipments to avoid further electricity cuts. But this stop-gap measure is hardly a solution. As the blockade moves into its 11th year, it is more important than ever to remember that Gaza is not a humanitarian problem nor is it a separate complication to be “resolved.” Gaza and its inhabitants are part and parcel of the broader Palestinian quest for self-determination. It cannot be reduced to Hamas, and its inhabitants must not be used as political pawns. Only once their humanity is acknowledged and the international community pressures Israel to address the Palestinian quest for freedom, equality, and justice, will this ongoing suffering end.
https://www.thenation.com/article/how-i ... -collapse/
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by DCComic » Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 am

It's their own fault for making a series of bad choices;
1. Being Arabs.
2. Squatting on the land the Jews would obviously want back eventually.
3. Not rolling over and taking it up the arse as and when required.
4. Not being able to establish a successful modern and forward looking democracy in circumstance that make medieval Europe look like a vicar's picnic.

They deserve punishment and by god they will be punished.
And their children.
And their children's children.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Lost Soul » Thu May 17, 2018 2:33 am

I see nobody cares about Egypt's blockade. And it used to be part of Egypt.

How quaint.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by dBrother » Thu May 17, 2018 2:38 am

Yah, when the Israelis gave the Sinai back they probably shoulda made them take Gaza as part of the deal.
And built a wall with no gates at al on the Zion border.


And what DC said, it's their own fault really.. a result of a series of bad choices they made.

In a post Darwinic post 7 billion world you've just got to let the conquerors go ahead and vanquish the conquored sometimes..
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by gnomad » Thu May 17, 2018 3:56 am

Is Egypt's blockade tied to American money and their pseudo-alliance with Israel or are they afraid there'd be an influx of Palestinians into Egypt?

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Lost Soul » Thu May 17, 2018 4:04 am

gnomad wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:56 am
Is Egypt's blockade tied to American money and their pseudo-alliance with Israel or are they afraid there'd be an influx of Palestinians into Egypt?
It's not tied to our money.

Maobama's Mooslum Brotherhood head of Egypt loved the Zagans. The Egyptians quickly learned to loathe him and them.

When Sisi couped the MB, he sealed the border.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by strife » Thu May 17, 2018 4:08 am

Maybe Gazans shouldn't vote for a party exterminationist of Jews if they don't want hostility from Jews.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Logg » Thu May 17, 2018 4:37 am

Any particular reason you'd use an article that's a year old?

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by dBrother » Thu May 17, 2018 5:12 am

strife wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:08 am
Maybe Gazans shouldn't vote for a party exterminationist of Jews if they don't want hostility from Jews.
spoken by someone that fails to take any responsibility for a democratically elected TRUMP
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Wellpisser » Thu May 17, 2018 6:07 am

I'm curious about the headline. It states:-
Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade
I wonder why it does not state the more accurate:
Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's and Egypt's 10-year blockade

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by strife » Thu May 17, 2018 6:08 am

dBrother wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 5:12 am
strife wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:08 am
Maybe Gazans shouldn't vote for a party exterminationist of Jews if they don't want hostility from Jews.
spoken by someone that fails to take any responsibility for a democratically elected TRUMP
Leave.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Wellpisser » Thu May 17, 2018 6:09 am

strife wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:08 am
Maybe Gazans shouldn't vote for a party exterminationist of Jews if they don't want hostility from Jews.
A good point. The administration in Gaza is dedicated to the slaughter of the Jews. The Jews in Israel are just as dedicated to their own preservation. Neither side will compromise so there will be no settlement to this issue.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Korgy
"The undeniable cruelty of the blockade is that it obliterates such [political] nuance
I have recollections of a woman from gaza crossing into Israel for a medical appointment in a nearby hospital She was loaded down with explosives tat she was going to sue in the hospital lobby

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/opin ... edman.html
by gnomad » Thu May 17, 2018 3:56 am

Is Egypt's blockade tied to American money and their pseudo-alliance with Israel or are they afraid there'd be an influx of Palestinians into Egypt?
Um.. No. It wa ties to the armed assistance hams was giving terror cells in the Sinai

They deserve punishment and by god they will be punished.
And their children.
And their children's children.
Perhaps they have to make better choices. Burning a border crossing and goods coming though is a bad choice.


Thomas L. Friedman AUG. 7, 2010
Steal This Movie
I just saw a remarkable new documentary directed by Shlomi Eldar, the Gaza reporter for Israel’s Channel 10 news. Titled “Precious Life,” the film tracks the story of Mohammed Abu Mustafa, a 4-month-old Palestinian baby suffering from a rare immune deficiency. Moved by the baby’s plight, Eldar helps the infant and mother go from Gaza to Israel’s Tel Hashomer hospital for lifesaving bone-marrow treatment. The operation costs $55,000. Eldar puts out an appeal on Israel TV and within hours an Israeli Jew whose own son was killed during military service donates all the money.

The documentary takes a dramatic turn, though, when the infant’s Palestinian mother, Raida, who is being disparaged by fellow Gazans for having her son treated in Israel, blurts out that she hopes he’ll grow up to be a suicide bomber to help recover Jerusalem. Raida tells Eldar: “From the smallest infant, even smaller than Mohammed, to the oldest person, we will all sacrifice ourselves for the sake of Jerusalem. We feel we have the right to it. You’re free to be angry, so be angry.”

Eldar is devastated by her declaration and stops making the film. But this is no Israeli propaganda movie. The drama of the Palestinian boy’s rescue at an Israeli hospital is juxtaposed against Israeli retaliations for shelling from Gaza, which kill whole Palestinian families. Dr. Raz Somech, the specialist who treats Mohammed as if he were his own child, is summoned for reserve duty in Gaza in the middle of the film. The race by Israelis and Palestinians to save one life is embedded in the larger routine of the two communities grinding each other up.

“It’s clear to me that the war in Gaza was justified — no country can allow itself to be fired at with Qassam rockets — but I did not see many people pained by the loss of life on the Palestinian side,” Eldar told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. “Because we were so angry at Hamas, all the Israeli public wanted was to [expletive] Gaza. ... It wasn’t until after the incident of Dr. Abu al-Aish — the Gaza physician I spoke with on live TV immediately after a shell struck his house and caused the death of his daughters and he was shouting with grief and fear — that I discovered the [Israeli] silent majority that has compassion for people, including Palestinians. I found that many Israeli viewers shared my feelings.” So Eldar finished the documentary about how Mohammed’s life was saved in Israel.
Photo



I write about this now because there is something foul in the air. It is a trend, both deliberate and inadvertent, to delegitimize Israel — to turn it into a pariah state, particularly in the wake of the Gaza war. You hear the director Oliver Stone saying crazy things about how Hitler killed more Russians than Jews, but the Jews got all the attention because they dominate the news media and their lobby controls Washington. You hear Britain’s prime minister describing Gaza as a big Israeli “prison camp” and Turkey’s prime minister telling Israel’s president, “When it comes to killing, you know very well how to kill.” You see singers canceling concerts in Tel Aviv. If you just landed from Mars, you might think that Israel is the only country that has killed civilians in war — never Hamas, never Hezbollah, never Turkey, never Iran, never Syria, never America.
Continue reading the main story

I’m not here to defend Israel’s bad behavior. Just the opposite. I’ve long argued that Israel’s colonial settlements in the West Bank are suicidal for Israel as a Jewish democracy. I don’t think Israel’s friends can make that point often enough or loud enough.

But there are two kinds of criticism. Constructive criticism starts by making clear: “I know what world you are living in.” I know the Middle East is a place where Sunnis massacre Shiites in Iraq, Iran kills its own voters, Syria allegedly kills the prime minister next door, Turkey hammers the Kurds, and Hamas engages in indiscriminate shelling and refuses to recognize Israel. I know all of that. But Israel’s behavior, at times, only makes matters worse — for Palestinians and Israelis. If you convey to Israelis that you understand the world they’re living in, and then criticize, they’ll listen.

Destructive criticism closes Israeli ears. It says to Israelis: There is no context that could explain your behavior, and your wrongs are so uniquely wrong that they overshadow all others. Destructive critics dismiss Gaza as an Israeli prison, without ever mentioning that had Hamas decided — after Israel unilaterally left Gaza — to turn it into Dubai rather than Tehran, Israel would have behaved differently, too. Destructive criticism only empowers the most destructive elements in Israel to argue that nothing Israel does matters, so why change?

How about everybody take a deep breath, pop a copy of “Precious Life” into your DVD players, watch this documentary about the real Middle East, and if you still want to be a critic (as I do), be a constructive one. A lot more Israelis and Palestinians will listen to you.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 1:56 pm

everyone in Gaza does not back Hamas. everyone protesting today in Gaza was not motivated by Hamas to protest. everyone who voted for Hamas did not do so merely because they want Israel to sink into the ocean. people that destitute are usually not voting for geopolitical reasons.

the idea that somehow collective punishment of 2 million people is going to make them like Israel more is just inane.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 1:59 pm

"Many Palestinians, in Gaza and elsewhere, deplore Hamas’s authoritarianism and ideology, from its Islamic social conservatism to its reliance on armed struggle as a mode of resistance. Many others have supported Hamas as an act of protest against Fatah, the PA’s ruling party, which is widely viewed as corrupt and oppressive and has been helmed for years by the monumentally unpopular Mahmoud Abbas. And still others actively support what they believe is Hamas’s right to use armed struggle to resist Israel’s unyielding choke hold on the Palestinian people.

The undeniable cruelty of the blockade is that it obliterates such nuance. The blockade is premised on the notion that the collective punishment of 2 million Palestinians is permissible, even justified, to reach the political goal, dictated by Israel, of subduing Hamas. Such thinking dehumanizes Palestinians in Gaza: It becomes an unfortunate reality that civilians are terrorized and killed in an effort to break Hamas. It also elides key shifts that have taken place within Hamas itself: Earlier this year, Hamas officially accepted the goal of a Palestinian state alongside Israel and has issued a political document that offers a starting point for engagement.

Instead of addressing the internationally sanctioned aspects of many of Hamas’s demands, and those of Palestinians writ large, including the right to Palestinian self-determination, Israel has chosen a military approach focused solely on Hamas’s pacification. Since 2007, Israeli security forces have killed more than 4,000 Palestinians in Gaza. Alongside the slow suffocation inherent in the act of closure, Israel has carried out three major military assaults (in 2014 as well as in 2008–09 and in 2012) against Gaza, and countless raids in between, unleashing the force of the region’s most powerful army—and sole nuclear power—on one of the most densely populated refugee areas in the world. "
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:04 pm

Korgy' sewage slop

When was the last election in Gaza. Short of elections, what are the options tp replace Hamas?
Unread post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 1:59 pm

"Many Palestinians, in Gaza and elsewhere, deplore Hamas’s authoritarianism and ideology, from its Islamic social conservatism to its reliance on armed struggle as a mode of resistance. Many others have supported Hamas as an act of protest against Fatah, the PA’s ruling party, which is widely viewed as corrupt and oppressive and has been helmed for years by the monumentally unpopular Mahmoud Abbas. And still others actively support what they believe is Hamas’s right to use armed struggle to resist Israel’s unyielding choke hold on the Palestinian people.

The undeniable cruelty of the blockade is that it obliterates such nuance. The blockade is premised on the notion that the collective punishment of 2 million Palestinians is permissible, even justified, to reach the political goal, dictated by Israel, of subduing Hamas. Such thinking dehumanizes Palestinians in Gaza: It becomes an unfortunate reality that civilians are terrorized and killed in an effort to break Hamas. It also elides key shifts that have taken place within Hamas itself: Earlier this year, Hamas officially accepted the goal of a Palestinian state alongside Israel and has issued a political document that offers a starting point for engagement.
the idea that somehow collective punishment of 2 million people is going to make them like Israel more is just inane.
whe does one open a border with a very good chance that terrorists will slip in
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by strife » Thu May 17, 2018 2:09 pm

This feud is a good analogy for the I/P conflict. DCC wants to gas the Jew.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm

dBrother wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 5:12 am
strife wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:08 am
Maybe Gazans shouldn't vote for a party exterminationist of Jews if they don't want hostility from Jews.
spoken by someone that fails to take any responsibility for a democratically elected TRUMP
though dbrother and i disagree on almost everything, he is absolutely right on this. for Americans to believe in their absolute right to distinguish themselves from those who put our our "democratically" elected leader into office -- and to even go so far as to try to understand why others voted for Trump, even though all those voters may not agree with everything Trump is and does -- while simultaneously choosing to collectively penalize everyone on a tiny strip of land under the notion "they voted for", is the ultimate hypocrisy.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by strife » Thu May 17, 2018 2:35 pm

Trump is a Bad Man, but Hamas is exterminationist. Apples and oranges.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:38 pm

though dbrother and i disagree on almost everything, he is absolutely right on this. for Americans to believe in their absolute right to distinguish themselves from those who put our our "democratically" elected leader into office -- and to even go so far as to try to understand why others voted for Trump, even though all those voters may not agree with everything Trump is and does -- while simultaneously choosing to collectively penalize everyone on a tiny strip of land under the notion "they voted for", is the ultimate hypocrisy.
1. No one is blaming Gazans for their misery. They're subjugated by Hamas
2. When was the last Palestinian Authority election?
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by mishmish » Thu May 17, 2018 3:51 pm

dBrother wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:38 am
Yah, when the Israelis gave the Sinai back they probably shoulda made them take Gaza
Oh they tried to. Very hard. Egypt was having none of it. Hard to blame them.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by dBrother » Thu May 17, 2018 3:53 pm

Why?, Whats the deal there? Is it a sunni/shite thing?
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 3:57 pm

would you want to take on 2 million poor people with no hope?
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu May 17, 2018 4:01 pm

Why would the Egyptians take back Israel's refugees?

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by dBrother » Thu May 17, 2018 4:05 pm

surely they'd have culturally fitted in better with another Islamic Arab country rather than a predominantly European Jewish one?

They don't really belong.in Israel, they'll clearly never fit in, whereas theyd have probably well assimilated into Egypt by now.

They coulda taken that strip of land with them
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu May 17, 2018 4:11 pm

Sounds kind of like ethnic cleansing to me, Dbro.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 4:11 pm

dbrother, there are now more Arabs than Jews living in Gaza, the West bank and Israel. do you see the problem that Israel is facing now?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/arm ... -1.5940676
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by DCComic » Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:38 pm
1. No one is blaming Gazans for their misery.
strife wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:08 am
Maybe Gazans shouldn't vote for a party exterminationist of Jews if they don't want hostility from Jews.
dBrother wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:38 am
And what DC said, it's their own fault really.. a result of a series of bad choices they made.
polardude1 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 pm
Perhaps they have to make better choices.
mishmish wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:48 pm
It's clear that Palis don't want autonomy at all, they want to get "back" the whole enchilada, an enchillada that in fact has never actually been governed by the Palestinians themselves of course, I suppose in hopes of transforming the place into yet another Arab shithole country.
etc etc etc...
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Ped_Yai » Thu May 17, 2018 4:23 pm

"The undeniable cruelty of the blockade is that it obliterates such [political] nuance

Lopardude, do you agree that Nuance is being Obliterated? Do you agree that in this whole intractable bloody conflict, this Obliteration of Nuance is an undeniable cruelty?

Do you agree that this undeniably cruel Obliteration of Nuance should be a major focus of the outrage against Israel?

Personally, I have more of a Sherman's Letter to the Mayor and Councilmen of Atlanta outlook on the situation.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Ped_Yai » Thu May 17, 2018 4:27 pm

strife wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:35 pm
Trump is a Bad Man, but Hamas is exterminationist. Apples and oranges.
Wouldn't that be Orange and apples?
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by mishmish » Thu May 17, 2018 4:29 pm

?? As someone has already commented, Gazans (Gaza city) were Egyptians up until the Six Day War. They were not displaced and are not refugees. Egypt simply didn't want that snake pit back. In the Gaza strip there are refugee camps but I don't know where from. Possibly also from pre-1967 Egyptian Sinai.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu May 17, 2018 4:40 pm

Any from Palestine, Mish?

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 4:44 pm

mishmish wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:29 pm
?? As someone has already commented, Gazans (Gaza city) were Egyptians up until the Six Day War. They were not displaced and are not refugees. Egypt simply didn't want that snake pit back. In the Gaza strip there are refugee camps but I don't know where from. Possibly also from pre-1967 Egyptian Sinai.
oh my god, that is such bullshit.

here is map of Palestine before 1948:

Image
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu May 17, 2018 4:50 pm

Mish seems to think the we all just fell off the turnip truck.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 4:53 pm

here is map of Palestine before 1948:

Image
Dear Korgy, thank you for the lonk. I now see that it is advertising an El Al sale t Tel Aviv :lol: :lol: :lol:


Korgy, tis might help you;

Image


getting back to Gaza. This so called refugee camps could have been dismantled ages ago but....
Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu May 17, 2018 4:40 pm

Any from Palestine, Mish?
\
Stevie, Gaza was part of the British Palestine mandate, so they nevr left it



Korgy, what do your 2.5 Jewish fries tell you?
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu May 17, 2018 4:55 pm

This so called refugee camps could have been dismantled ages ago but....
But what, Polar? Go on.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 4:57 pm

They fled a war zone with promises of a return by their Arab allies. It was based on an eventual military victory. The problem , they lost the war..

Nut population exchange has never occurred elsewhere in the world. Hm..
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by DCComic » Thu May 17, 2018 5:23 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:57 pm
They fled a war zone with promises of a return by their Arab allies. It was based on an eventual military victory. The problem , they lost the war..

Nut population exchange has never occurred elsewhere in the world. Hm..
States have alliances which are established by treaty. Individuals without states cannot have allies.

What you mean is that because some arabs resisted the founding of Israel some other arabs and their descendants must be punished for eternity.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:27 pm

What you mean is that because some arabs resisted the founding of Israel some other arabs and their descendants must be punished for eternity.
News to DCCComic. If there's room for Syrian refugees in Europe, there is certainly rom for Palestinian refugees


I feel terrible for Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in colonial India. They do not get as much publicity.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 6:13 pm

i opened up the polar (foed) response to the map i posted, out of curiousity. it's amazing that he actually adds to the obvious point that Gaza was part of Palestine in every possible way.

it does seem like mish might need a few lectures however, if you care to lend a hand pdude

carry on

edited to add, i have absolutely no idea what point he is trying to make in reference to the OP or the history of Gaza -- as is often the case
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Logg » Thu May 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Ped_Yai wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:23 pm
"The undeniable cruelty of the blockade is that it obliterates such [political] nuance

Lopardude, do you agree that Nuance is being Obliterated? Do you agree that in this whole intractable bloody conflict, this Obliteration of Nuance is an undeniable cruelty?

Do you agree that this undeniably cruel Obliteration of Nuance should be a major focus of the outrage against Israel?

Personally, I have more of a Sherman's Letter to the Mayor and Councilmen of Atlanta outlook on the situation.
I find that "Now on the Brink of Collapse" works as an evergreen headline. It's always 'Now.' It's always 'on the Brink'; datelines are for fascist lackeys.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 6:32 pm

deep. nice commentary on the article, which i am SURE you read. Ped too.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:38 pm

Unread post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 6:32 pm

deep. nice commentary on the article, which i am SURE you read. Ped too.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 10:25 pm

I propose that Korgy and DCComic organize a Gazapallooze fund raiser o cover the costs of tunnel building. Concerts can be held simultaneously in in Kent and Brooklyn. I bet Roger Waters would perform
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Ped_Yai » Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 pm

Then there's this gem:

"Nearly 2 million people locked inside a land mass the size of Philadelphia."

A person with an engaged brain reading this would say "But that's how many people there are in Philadelphia. What's the point?"

In fact the population of Philadelphia is about 1.5 million, but in the 40s and 50s it had more than two million.

But there are far worse places for packing people in like sardines, cheek by jowl. One of these places is home to a Stew Poster.

I say let's immediately re-direct all emergency aid going to Gaza and shift it to Brooklyn, under operation Saving Private Korgy.

Because Brooklyn, where Korgy lives, is almost exactly half the size of Philadelphia [so half the size of Gaza], and has 2.67 million people. Two and a half times the density of Gaza.

We've got to get him out.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by polardude1 » Thu May 17, 2018 10:39 pm

"Nearly 2 million people locked inside a land mass the size of Philadelphia.
I'm trapped!
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by Steve_in_Exile » Thu May 17, 2018 10:55 pm

Ped_Yai wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 pm
A person with an engaged brain reading this would say "But that's how many people there are in Philadelphia. What's the point?"
The fact that New York, Philadelphia, Hong Kong and Singapore have higher population densities than the Gaza strip doesn't in anyway mean that a fenced off strip of desert with 2 million refugees crammed into it and insufficient water supplies, has any remote shot at economic viability. You guys are totally full of shit.

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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 10:56 pm

Ped_Yai wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 pm
Then there's this gem:
i noticed that as well, Ped.

what do you think "locked inside" might mean? do you think Philadelphians are "locked inside" the same area? is there a fence and an ocean around Philadelphia? do you think Gazans have the same access to resources within the area they are locked into as Philadelphians? do Philadelphians get 2-3 hours of electricity a day? if someone is dying in Philadelphia, are they more or less likely than Philadephians to get what they need to survive? so many questions!

in any case, it's nice that i got you to read the article (which you obviously hadnt before), even if it was for the sole purpose of searching for some totally irrelevant "gem" you could dissect and dispose of.
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by korgy » Thu May 17, 2018 10:58 pm

otoh, maybe that explains polardude -- he has been locked inside Philadelphia all these years!
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Re: Gaza now on the brink of collapse after Israel's 10-year blockade

Post by DCComic » Thu May 17, 2018 10:59 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:39 pm
"Nearly 2 million people locked inside a land mass the size of Philadelphia.
I'm trapped!
No, you can leave, you can come back, you can have visitors.

prick
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