What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

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What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:29 pm

Aside from the usual PR victory painted in the blood of the great martyrs, what was achieved with this fruitless escapade.? is Hamas making Gaza great again?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:10 pm

It reminds everyone the desperate shape Gaza is in. Killing more Gazans won't solve the problem.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:21 pm

It reminds everyone the desperate shape Gaza is in. Killing more Gazans won't solve the problem.
and let me ask you. Whose fault is that?

1. Where has all that money from the EU, US and Qatar gone?

2. How does rushing the border, burning tires gas lines and a border crossing help?

3. Who pays for the repairs?

Sending for Gazans running towards a border fence does not help things
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:32 pm

Winning a debate on how awful Hamas is isn't going to get you any closer to a long term solution.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:33 pm

by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:32 pm

Winning a debate on how awful Hamas is isn't going to get you any closer to a long term solution.
That's not a debate. It's already known how awful Hamas is. Tell me what the barriers to progress in Gaza are?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:46 pm

The desperate conditions in Gaza that fuel this kind of reaction. It's not rocket science.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by korgy » Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:10 pm

Unread post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:46 pm

The desperate conditions in Gaza that fuel this kind of reaction. It's not rocket science.
and how did those desperate conditions come about? I need some honesty here

korgy » Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.
They lost those hearts and minds the moment they won a war and survived. Where have you been the last 51 years?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Moethebartender » Wed May 16, 2018 4:10 pm

korky wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm
Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.
Up until this point, the hearts and the minds all over the world were with Israel, eh?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:11 pm

Moethebartender wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:10 pm
korky wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm
Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.
Up until this point, the hearts and the minds all over the world were with Israel, eh?
It hasn't been the strategy since Netanyahu has been in power, no.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Wed May 16, 2018 4:13 pm

korgy wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm
Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.
Losing hearts maybe but winning minds instead.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Higgs Bossom » Wed May 16, 2018 4:31 pm

korgy wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm
Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.

No, they aren't. Step outside your bubble and you might realize that.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:34 pm

It hasn't been the strategy since Netanyahu has been in power, no.
What does it mean to win hears and minds? Have you seen any other country try and just won hearts and minds around the world
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:35 pm

Where is Israel gaining global support, Higgs? Polar, most western countries have criticized Israel for its actions in Gaza.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Wed May 16, 2018 4:43 pm

Higgs Bossom wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:31 pm
korgy wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm
Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.

No, they aren't. Step outside your bubble and you might realize that.
No, it's the other way round. I agree with others that the window of opportunity for the Palestinians may have closed. In the past they could count on the support of the Europeans, especially among leftists like you, who had lots of sympathy for their cause. However, people are losing patience with the Arabs in general, people don't understand why they can't get their shit together. Islamic terrorism and the European refugee crisis, even though having little to do with Palestinians, made matters worse for them, anti-Arab sentiment is on the rise, and many right-wing parties have started supporting Israel.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Logg » Wed May 16, 2018 4:45 pm

Moethebartender wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:10 pm
korky wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm
Israel losing hearts and minds all over the world.
Up until this point, the hearts and the minds all over the world were with Israel, eh?
Heh.

The time I saw Israel's greatest loss of hearts and minds was after the death of Mohammed al Dura, for which they weren't at fault, probably weren't even involved, and which occurred under a left-leaning Labor-led government.

Hearts and minds are fickle things.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by LonelyTeaPot » Wed May 16, 2018 4:52 pm

Sorry Higgs, something got mixed up. My reply was directed at korgy.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:06 pm

Unread post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:35 pm

Where is Israel gaining global support, Higgs? Polar, most western countries have criticized Israel for its actions in Gaza
Do you want a list of UN resolutions passed since the 1970's including the one that condemned Zionism as racism. Hstory matters
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed May 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Sounds like they achieved making polar’s head explode.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:14 pm

My head s not exploding but sacrificing 50 lives for my head to explode does not seem worth it.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:15 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:06 pm
Unread post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:35 pm

Where is Israel gaining global support, Higgs? Polar, most western countries have criticized Israel for its actions in Gaza
Do you want a list of UN resolutions passed since the 1970's including the one that condemned Zionism as racism. Hstory matters
So your position is that Israel is gaining global support?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Tell us what global support looks like? tell us a nation that negotiates its policy based on 'global support"?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:22 pm

I’m asking you, polar.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:23 pm

Define global support.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Citizen Baba » Wed May 16, 2018 6:11 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:21 pm
Tell us what global support looks like? tell us a nation that negotiates its policy based on 'global support"?
Shame is a good motivator. Otherwise, Human Right Watch and Amnesty International wouldn't exist.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 6:17 pm

Otherwise, Human Right Watch and Amnesty International wouldn't exist.
Covering Hamas's human rights abuses within Gaza would be a full time job
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Logg » Wed May 16, 2018 7:13 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 2:29 pm
Aside from the usual PR victory painted in the blood of the great martyrs, what was achieved with this fruitless escapade.? is Hamas making Gaza great again?
Flobster got a chance to show the distinction between righteous Jews and typical Jews.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Ped_Yai » Wed May 16, 2018 7:22 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:21 pm
Tell us what global support looks like? tell us a nation that negotiates its policy based on 'global support"?
It is a very popularly embraced notion among a certain socio-political class in the US, and to a lesser extent Europe, that falls apart on examination.

It imagines that the vast majority of people on earth, on average (including especially "people of color", "the third world", the "other", or whatever other appellation you choose to pin on the exotic races), hold opinions about major political questions of concern to the "progressive" American classes that align almost precisely with the averaged opinion of the progressive American classes.

The fact that no such "global opinion" exists does not mean that the idea of "global opinion" is without value to those who would use it as a club to badger others. Because one of the imperatives of the progressive American classes is to be seen as agreeing with "world opinion". So if you tell them there is a "world opinion", and tell what what that opinion is, they will agree with it so as to conform.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:33 pm

I think the last time Jews had global support was right after the Holocaust
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by DCComic » Wed May 16, 2018 7:43 pm

Ped_Yai wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:22 pm
...one of the imperatives of the progressive American classes is to be seen as agreeing with "world opinion". So if you tell them there is a "world opinion", and tell what what that opinion is, they will agree with it so as to conform.
Of course you can support this claim, because it would be ridiculous to have presented mere idle speculation as set-in-stone fact the way you have here.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Logg » Wed May 16, 2018 7:47 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:33 pm
I think the last time Jews had global support was right after the Holocaust
Yes and no. When the Allies put an end to Germany's campaign, there were tens of thousands of Jews who hadn't been slaughtered yet, and none of the locals wanted them back. Oftentimes these displaced persons were held in the very German-built camps designed to eliminate them.

Europeans were by and large eliminationist towards Jews. They wanted them gone, which is why the Germans had so much support. When the war, and therefore the Holocaust, was over, Israel was seen as a good place to send them, instead of Auschwitz, so that Europe could maintain a more homogenous character.

The remaining Jews who did try to go back to their old homes in Europe after the war can tell you about the kind of welcome they received. Not always good.

They didn't really start getting sympathy until the 1960s, when the story of the Holocaust started to be told, which happened to coincide with the time the Second Vatican Council removed the Blood Libel from Jews.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:49 pm

Statement by the Prime Minister on violence in Gaza Strip Ottawa, Ontario - May 16, 2018
The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today issued the following statement on the violence in the Gaza Strip:

“Canada deplores and is gravely concerned by the violence in the Gaza Strip that has led to a tragic loss of life and injured countless people. We are appalled that Dr. Tarek Loubani, a Canadian citizen, is among the wounded – along with so many unarmed people, including civilians, members of the media, first responders, and children.

“We are doing everything we can to assist Dr. Loubani and his family, and to determine how a Canadian citizen came to be injured. We are engaging with Israeli officials to get to the bottom of these events.

“Reported use of excessive force and live ammunition is inexcusable. It is imperative we establish the facts of what is happening in Gaza. Canada calls for an immediate independent investigation to thoroughly examine the facts on the ground – including any incitement, violence, and the excessive use of force.

“Canada stands ready to assist in such an endeavour. We will work closely with our international partners and through international institutions to address this serious situation.”
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:53 pm

For Ereich, this is now personal
Should i start singing ":Oh Canada"

Was he a peaceful protester?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:54 pm

There's an ally of Israel responding. Is that enough global opinion for you?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:02 pm

Note: Israel need not defend it's border to voice global support. Tank you. Israel will take it under advisement
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Chi_Rup » Wed May 16, 2018 8:06 pm

If I lived with 2 million people in a dusty open prison with no flushing toilets I’d be rioting for something to do, couldn’t give a fuck what it achieved. You’d do the same unless there was something wrong with you, be honest with yourself.

Are you asking why Palestinians don’t have a more strategic, long term view of their situation?

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:07 pm

Hey you asked what was achieved by this. Don't get mad when I point it out.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:13 pm

Te answer, tat it has achieved nothing. Gaza is still a Hamas created shithole
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 pm

It is. Israel will need to do something to alleviate it. Killing more people will make Israel more unpopular.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by DCComic » Wed May 16, 2018 8:22 pm

"Are you asking why Palestinians don’t have a more strategic, long term view of their situation?"

What would be the fucking point of that?
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by polardude1 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:25 pm

Oh my
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Argonheart_Po » Wed May 16, 2018 8:34 pm

It’s an intractable situation.

One side wants to kill Jews. The other side wants to stay alive.

Neither seems willing to budge.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Ped_Yai » Wed May 16, 2018 8:55 pm

DCComic wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:43 pm
Ped_Yai wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:22 pm
...one of the imperatives of the progressive American classes is to be seen as agreeing with "world opinion". So if you tell them there is a "world opinion", and tell what what that opinion is, they will agree with it so as to conform.
Of course you can support this claim, because it would be ridiculous to have presented mere idle speculation as set-in-stone fact the way you have here.
Peer reviewed, and double-blind, documented, certified, notarized and authenticated.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by eric84 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:57 pm

US exceptionalism is much stronger Amerikkkan foreign policy tradition
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by mishmish » Wed May 16, 2018 10:31 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:11 pm
polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:21 pm
Tell us what global support looks like? tell us a nation that negotiates its policy based on 'global support"?
Shame is a good motivator. Otherwise, Human Right Watch and Amnesty International wouldn't exist.
It's true but the shame model doesn't work perfectly. Israel is a bit desensitized to "global" criticism because it can be so hypocritical that criticism is generally taken with a grain of salt.

Polar is so right. Powerful countries might smirk at the suggestion that non nationals would have a say in their policy. Psychotic sunnis, wackjob dictators, etc. find global approval or otherwise, pretty easy to ignore because psychoic and wackjob. Reasons reasons. Well, Israel has reasons too.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Wellpisser » Wed May 16, 2018 10:34 pm

Logg wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:47 pm
polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:33 pm
I think the last time Jews had global support was right after the Holocaust
Yes and no. When the Allies put an end to Germany's campaign, there were tens of thousands of Jews who hadn't been slaughtered yet, and none of the locals wanted them back. Oftentimes these displaced persons were held in the very German-built camps designed to eliminate them.

Europeans were by and large eliminationist towards Jews. They wanted them gone, which is why the Germans had so much support. When the war, and therefore the Holocaust, was over, Israel was seen as a good place to send them, instead of Auschwitz, so that Europe could maintain a more homogenous character.

The remaining Jews who did try to go back to their old homes in Europe after the war can tell you about the kind of welcome they received. Not always good.

They didn't really start getting sympathy until the 1960s, when the story of the Holocaust started to be told, which happened to coincide with the time the Second Vatican Council removed the Blood Libel from Jews.
Exactly. For many Yurpeens the presence of Jews in Yurp was a constant and uncomfortable reminder of what the Jews had made Yurpeens do to them.

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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by Lost Soul » Thu May 17, 2018 12:30 am

50 idiots got to leave that shithole and go to Paradise.
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by dBrother » Thu May 17, 2018 12:54 am

is it time for the gazans to realize that while they are indeed biologically capable of breeding up their numbers exponentially, they only have a finite amount of land to draw a living from, hmmm?

it Is really not the israelis fault that palestinians have bred up to plaugue proportions over the last 70 years, the FACT is, there were 1 million muslim palestinians in palestine in 1948, there are still one million muslim palestinian israili citizens as of today, the state of Israel has been very good to these people, but then there's the other 7 million excess muslim palestinians in west bank, gaza, lebonon, these people are just overbred excess, fuck em, just because they have proven themselves able to breed like rats doesn't give them any extra land rights.

the world is a finite place, and abject poverty is the price they must pay for overbreeding at the rates they have .
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Re: What was achieved from the violent riot and attempted border breach?

Post by dBrother » Thu May 17, 2018 1:00 am

Wellpisser wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:34 pm
Logg wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:47 pm
polardude1 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:33 pm
I think the last time Jews had global support was right after the Holocaust
Yes and no. When the Allies put an end to Germany's campaign, there were tens of thousands of Jews who hadn't been slaughtered yet, and none of the locals wanted them back. Oftentimes these displaced persons were held in the very German-built camps designed to eliminate them.

Europeans were by and large eliminationist towards Jews. They wanted them gone, which is why the Germans had so much support. When the war, and therefore the Holocaust, was over, Israel was seen as a good place to send them, instead of Auschwitz, so that Europe could maintain a more homogenous character.

The remaining Jews who did try to go back to their old homes in Europe after the war can tell you about the kind of welcome they received. Not always good.

They didn't really start getting sympathy until the 1960s, when the story of the Holocaust started to be told, which happened to coincide with the time the Second Vatican Council removed the Blood Libel from Jews.
Exactly. For many Yurpeens the presence of Jews in Yurp was a constant and uncomfortable reminder of what the Jews had made Yurpeens do to them.
the jews weren't the only ones that never went home after ze war, the entire eastern europe was also purged of ethnic germans within the few years after 1945.
often they'd been there for centurys and were no longer wanted. the local thought nothing of turning viciously upon them merely based on the language they spoke.
no one lifted a finger to help them either.
.

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