I've decided to become gay

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Am I gay?

Yes, say you are and we accept you as part of the community
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No, slight issue her: you dont fancy men only women.
5
36%
 
Total votes : 14
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I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:10 pm

Following on from our Australian brothers firmly held belief that to be an Aborigine you need
1. To declare that you are,
2. To be accepted as an Aborigine by other aborigines

I'd like to come out as gay.

I dont actually fancy men but I'm looking at this as a detail and frankly I'm not a detail person. And neither are our Australian brothers.

I'm thinking if we can get enough "gays" together who dont fancy men we can re-define the whole gay communty and then vote out those gays who do fancy men. That way I wont embarrass my wife when she has to explain to her friends how gay I trully am.

Vote me gay and I'll vote you gay as well!
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:20 pm

Gay.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Chi_Rup » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:22 pm

You'll need to have gay ancestors though.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:35 pm

Surely thats not true. I mean if I have blue eyes and I'm blonde and I can be considered black then claiming I need to have gay ancestors is nothing but homophobia. And as a gay I take issue with atht. if i'm accepted as gay by the community and claim to be gay them having a gay ancestor at some (distant) point back in my family tree is all I need. If that.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby matt_melb » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:38 pm

Vince, when you say "I can be considered black", are you using "black" to mean "aboriginal"?

If so, then you seem to be treating aboriginal culture as if it's all about skin colour, which implies that you think the rich cultural jeritage and everything else that makes up aboriginal identity is unimportant.

Or are you focusing on whether or not people in fact think you have black skin colour - which again implies that you think the shade of your skin is more important than any other aspect of cultural and ethnic identity.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby temporaryhandle » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:45 pm

What matt said. Vince, why don't you come to Australia and express your views?

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby chimes » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:37 pm

Vince wrote:Following on from our Australian brothers firmly held belief that to be an Aborigine you need
1. To declare that you are,
2. To be accepted as an Aborigine by other aborigines

But, but, but : that would imply that I cannot state here "I am Dutch".


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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby jono_in_adelaide » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:44 pm

Vince, if you're going to be gay, you'll need to change that fucking hair cut.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby stringer_bell » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:49 pm

This topic is beyond fucked up.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby cuchulainn » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:56 pm

I'm Vietnamese. I lke banh mi sandwiches.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby jono_in_adelaide » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:57 pm

Stringer - i think it highlights the abserdity of certain other posters statements quite well
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby F4J » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:01 pm

Vote me in. I like this idea of the hetero men crashing the gay nightclubs and slowly outnumbering them. Time to retake Old Compton street from the queers and ugly women on hen parties

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby flojin » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Vince wrote:I dont actually fancy men but I'm looking at this as a detail and frankly I'm not a detail person. And neither are our Australian brothers.

I'm thinking if we can get enough "gays" together who dont fancy men we can re-define the whole gay communty and then vote out those gays who do fancy men. That way I wont embarrass my wife when she has to explain to her friends how gay I trully am.

Vote me gay and I'll vote you gay as well!


You're late. There are already many people who self-identify as "queer" because they aren't comfortable with gender norms, despite not having gay sexual orientation.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Flobster » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:32 pm

Vince, it isn't just my "firmly held belief", it's the firmly held belief of most Aborigines and Australian law.

To be sensible for a second (sorry) is not necessary to consider "race" (a pretty fucking dubious and dangerous concept) when considering Aboriginality.

For example, it is sometimes necessary to decide if a person has a right to be involved in a Native Title claim - ie that they are an Aborigine with cultural links to a certain piece of country. "Race" is irrelevant. What IS relevant is if that person is related to people who have had a continuous cultural association with the land in question since before its alienation by the Brits.

Yes, almost everyone who meets that criteria will have ancestors who have been here a very long time. But that is not an actual requirement. If, say. it could be shown that a person's distant ancestors had included some shipwrecked Dutch or Javanese sailors prior to 1788 it would make no difference whatsoever in their claim of Aboriginality. "Race" is simply not relevant. Similarly, the ancestry of children adopted into Aboriginal families is not a factor in deciding whether or not they are Aboriginal.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby temporaryhandle » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:57 pm

Why are you bothering, flobs? Why? They are not doing this to engage. They are not doing it to learn. They are doing it to pour scorn on Australia. It amuses them. Who cares what they think? They are part of a dying civilisation.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby stringer_bell » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:59 pm

Totally agree with Temporaryhandle. The only rational response to this is: go fuck yourself shiteyes.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby temporaryhandle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:04 am

And as his Australian sister, I strongly advise Vince to go fuck himself, because no woman with the smallest modicum of self respect would want to.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby flojin » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:16 am

Of course, Jono was the guy on these board when Obama was elected to his first term who told us all that Obama was not black, the he was a mulatto. Jono went to great lengths to explain that mulatto is not black and shouldn't be called black.

That was precisely when I adopted the position that self-identification should be the only arbiter of race, because otherwise the Jonos and the Vinces of the world will pull out a paper lunch bag and start rating everyone on their various scales and meters. It's really the same bullshit as eugenics and phrenology.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:22 am

temporaryhandle wrote:What matt said. Vince, why don't you come to Australia and express your views?


Why? Will all the blue eye aborigines have something to say?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:26 am

matt_melb wrote:Vince, when you say "I can be considered black", are you using "black" to mean "aboriginal"?

If so, then you seem to be treating aboriginal culture as if it's all about skin colour, which implies that you think the rich cultural jeritage and everything else that makes up aboriginal identity is unimportant.

Or are you focusing on whether or not people in fact think you have black skin colour - which again implies that you think the shade of your skin is more important than any other aspect of cultural and ethnic identity.


Nope. I'm taliking about the right of the individual and the community he's part of to define what might normally be accepted as objective truth.

I'm gay if I say I am and people say I am regardless of whether inately I am?
Thats bullshit - clearly.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:33 am

flojin wrote:
Vince wrote:I dont actually fancy men but I'm looking at this as a detail and frankly I'm not a detail person. And neither are our Australian brothers.

I'm thinking if we can get enough "gays" together who dont fancy men we can re-define the whole gay communty and then vote out those gays who do fancy men. That way I wont embarrass my wife when she has to explain to her friends how gay I trully am.

Vote me gay and I'll vote you gay as well!


You're late. There are already many people who self-identify as "queer" because they aren't comfortable with gender norms, despite not having gay sexual orientation.


Oh really!! That's utterly pathetic.

If you're a man who's going to suck a dick then do it in a manly fashion. Thats what I say. I've no problem with that. But I can't abide campness.

This is despite the fact I've decided I'm gay and am canvassing a majoity on this. I'm toying with the idea of being black as well. Maybe tommorow - I need to check with my community.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby CatScanMan » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:34 am

You're not gay as yet but you are showing promise as a drama queen.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby temporaryhandle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:35 am

Shut the fuck up. You know nothing about Aboriginal culture or politics. Your opinion is completely worthless.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:38 am

temporaryhandle wrote:Shut the fuck up. You know nothing about Aboriginal culture or politics. Your opinion is completely worthless.


I know the difference between black and white and we've seen nothing of you're implied knowledge on aboriginal culture and how that apples to white people of obvious european descent so your adolescent outburst is worth what, exactly? Yes. Nothing.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby temporaryhandle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:42 am

That statement is completely incomprehensible. Would you like me to direct you to some reading on the subject, so that you can post on this subject with some knowledge instead of prejudice? You are being an offensive arse. Shut up and go pour scorn on your own culture. Dickhead.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby jono_in_adelaide » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:45 am

temporaryhandle wrote:Shut the fuck up. You know nothing about Aboriginal culture or politics. Your opinion is completely worthless.


Toys, pram, out of

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Flobster » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:47 am

regardless of whether inately I am?


There's your problem right there. You seem to think that there's this objective quality called "race" which somehow makes a difference to a person over and above the genes they got from their parents.

There isn't any situation that I can think of which requires "race" to be considered - it can be, but there are always other ways of looking at it. For example the Native Title scenario I gave earlier.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby AntiFelix » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:50 am

I am a lemur. As an endangered animal, I demand someone provide housing and food and a non-tipped living wage for existing. I will also sternly wag my finger at you raysict naysayers unfamiliar with the superiority of the Australian Way.
Last edited by AntiFelix on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:51 am

temporaryhandle wrote:That statement is completely incomprehensible. Would you like me to direct you to some reading on the subject, so that you can post on this subject with some knowledge instead of prejudice? You are being an offensive arse. Shut up and go pour scorn on your own culture. Dickhead.


I'm respecting black culture by pointing out that not every Tom, Dick or Harry can claim they are balck by virtue of how loudly they proclaim it. Not all truth is subjective.

I cant help thinking you're being homphobic to me.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby temporaryhandle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:53 am

Adults, Jono, have conversations based on respect. Not on deliberately ignoring considered contributions by people who actually know what they are talking about, in order to make a point that has no validity in the first place.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:54 am

Flobster wrote:
regardless of whether inately I am?


There's your problem right there. You seem to think that there's this objective quality called "race" which somehow makes a difference to a person over and above the genes they got from their parents. There isn't any situation that I can think of which requires "race" to be considered - it can be, but there are always other ways of looking at it. For example the Native Title scenario I gave earlier.


If they had black genes they'd tend look slightly black, no?

Isnt you're point (ridiculously!) that you dont actually have to have black genes to be black as long as you have a group of people who agree (against all science) that you are black when clearly you arent?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby AntiFelix » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:56 am

The Australian churchladies are being racist and homophobic and fuckfaced in their failure to respect UK and US usage of patently-obvious words. They should be re-educated at Sensitivity Camp.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:58 am

temporaryhandle wrote:Adults, Jono, have conversations based on respect. Not on deliberately ignoring considered contributions by people who actually know what they are talking about, in order to make a point that has no validity in the first place.


None of you guys know what you are talking about. You're australians and therefore you trot out the ludicrous mainstream australian line. You havent got a line of sense between you.

You'll black face it up next time you're at a party and wonder why thats considered racist in the civilised world.

You're confused.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby matt_melb » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:03 am

AntiFelix wrote:I am a lemur.

You are not a lemur, you are a human. There are scientific criteria, DNA etc, that delineate the boundaries.

'Race', in the sense of subdivisions of the human race, is not a scientific construct. Quite the contrary.

Vince, as others have said, you would have been right at home in apartheid-era South Africa, labelling everyone black, white or coloured and determining their entitlements accordingly.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby jono_in_adelaide » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:06 am

Nice work with the spreadsheet Flojin.

Shame that comment is your most significant contribution to the board in 5 years
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Vince » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:09 am

matt_melb wrote:
AntiFelix wrote:I am a lemur.

You are not a lemur, you are a human. There are scientific criteria, DNA etc, that delineate the boundaries.

'Race', in the sense of subdivisions of the human race, is not a scientific construct. Quite the contrary.

Vince, as others have said, you would have been right at home in apartheid-era South Africa, labelling everyone black, white or coloured and determining their entitlements accordingly.


You're mixing race with culture. Its that simple. You're just a bit confused.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby AntiFelix » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:12 am

matt_melb wrote:
AntiFelix wrote:I am a lemur.

You are not a lemur, you are a human. There are scientific criteria, DNA etc, that delineate the boundaries.

'Race', in the sense of subdivisions of the human race, is not a scientific construct. Quite the contrary.

Vince, as others have said, you would have been right at home in apartheid-era South Africa, labelling everyone black, white or coloured and determining their entitlements accordingly.


Your racism disgusts me. Why do you hate Blue-skinned lemurs like me? Your attitude leads to genocide.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Flobster » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:17 am

>as long as you have a group of people who agree (against all science) that you are black when clearly you are'nt?

What science? Again, you're assuming that there is something other than culture (and other environmental factors) and parental genes which is important in the way people are. I disagree and if you want to make a point rather than just rant, you'll have to argue for your point of view.

How about addressing some of the points made in this thread?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby AntiFelix » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:42 am

I am a vegetarian who only eats steak.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Kilombo » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:47 am

Come on Felix. You are a lifeless muppet
Prost!

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby AntiFelix » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:51 am

Kilombo wrote:Come on Felix. You are a lifeless muppet


I have multiple identities.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby VinceFoster » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:40 am

I'm really enjoying the new stew!
I'm so excited you decided
to come over and beg.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby jono_in_adelaide » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:48 am

Flobster wrote:>as long as you have a group of people who agree (against all science) that you are black when clearly you are'nt?

What science? Again, you're assuming that there is something other than culture (and other environmental factors) and parental genes which is important in the way people are. I disagree and if you want to make a point rather than just rant, you'll have to argue for your point of view.

How about addressing some of the points made in this thread?



Aboriginal Australians came to this country 40 000 years ago. My family came to this country in the early 1950's. Following my family tree back 2 generations pretty conclusively proves that I am not descended from the group that settled Australia in 38 000 BC, however much i might consider my self to be a part of that group.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby Flobster » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:00 am

However, you are using a false definition of an Aborigine. The legal (and accepted social) definition of an Aborigine is as has been stated many times in these threads.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby section8 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:15 am

How did the legal definition of aborigine come about?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby section8 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:32 am

Huh, so it sounds like it started out as having potentially three parts - claim, acceptance by a group, and descent. It was like that until the 1990s (?) when it shifted to conform to indigenous family structures and customs to allow the adopted to be considered members. That's interesting.
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby section8 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:19 am

Wikipedia says the three-part (Justice Deane) is still the accepted criteria???
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby muthafunky » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:29 am

The new Aussie contingent seems a tad defensive.

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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby jono_in_adelaide » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:32 am

Flobster wrote:However, you are using a false definition of an Aborigine. The legal (and accepted social) definition of an Aborigine is as has been stated many times in these threads.



So what is the name used to describe the peoples who settled this country in 38000 BC?
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Re: I've decided to become gay

Postby matt_melb » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:01 am

muthafunky wrote:The new Aussie contingent seems a tad defensive.

Really? I would have said we're mounting a principled, spirited and effective attack on a bunch of racists who think skin colour is the primary determinant of people's ethnic, cultural and spiritual identity.

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